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Toni_

Progress on our new Mac App Compatibility Environment

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On 3/23/2020 at 11:18 PM, Builder1 said:

I just found out the creator of the Einstein Newton emulator is gathering the troops to get Netwonscript running on as many platforms as possible.

I wanted to mention your project and ask if The Newton Toolkit will work in MACE yet?

Any chance it could be tested?

http://www.unna.org/view.php?/apple/development/NTK/macntk

 

J

That looks interesting, I searching information about the project, and found youtube video of the NTK basilisk2 demo through newtontalk mailing list, and it looks like something fun to definitely try out at some point. I did quick snoop around the SDK, and I believe at least Edition Manager and Communications Toolbox are required for it, both which are not yet implemented in the emulator. They will be of course added someday, but as of now, they are still on the To-Do list, and thus the NTK will not - yet - run.

On 3/23/2020 at 11:52 PM, Builder1 said:

Also, when is the plan for Serial support. I don't remember hearing about that (I assume it's later).

 

j

The plan is to support serial ports both physically (for example, USB serial adapters), and as virtual devices (simple unix input/output streams). We don't have at this point much of that implemented, but the Device Manager DRVR driver code is ready to support serial devices when we implement them. I actually have two USB-to-serial adapters I have been playing around with, but for some reason I am having difficulty getting even native OSX serial applications to work properly with them (they're so outdated that actually I cannot get native OSX drivers for them updated). I really would like to get the native devices to work, so that we can implement the proper status & control codes and verify their functionality at the same time. The input/output stream support would be really trivial to add on top of that, because it could ignore the hardware-specific serial protocol configuration stuff (baud rates/stop/parity/etc bits, etc...). Also Pukka said he was looking into some serial port stuff a while back, but he has been busy recently, especially now with the epidemic causing rearrangements in the daily lives. But this is definitely something we have on the roadmap. We already have tested adding some MacTCP driver functions, mostly DNR/icmp echo, but that is another topic...

 

Ps. Here's latest thing we got recently running on the emulator, with (sadly) fitting message for these times...I will write later a blog post about it, there's still issues that need fixing before that (i.e. outline text rendering crashes 10% of time because of unfinished color QD code, color QD menus are still leaving artefacts around screen because of more unfinished color QD code, and the Palette Manager seems to be misplacing a couple entries which causes those color indices to not display properly in this particular game)

 

1989522508_2020-04-03simcity2000-2.png.ffbbf79ef2dd397a92459caa9577ec3a.png

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Looks like Matthias likes your project!

I just happened to stumble over a note he recently made in one of his git repos (mosrun).

Looks like he's been doing some work on this lately :-)

 

mosrun: Run m68k Classic MacOS binaries in an emulated MPW environment. Runs Apple NewtonOS related tools on modern macOS, Linux and MSWindows systems, but many other MPW tools will also run just fine.

 

https://github.com/MatthiasWM/mosrun

 

j

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@Toni_ I mostly just wanted to bump this thread since I think it's such a great project. I am wondering if you have tried working with HyperCard 1.x and 2.x? I find it's one of the apps that emulators often struggle with, especially the visual transitions between cards.

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10 hours ago, tt said:

@Toni_ I mostly just wanted to bump this thread since I think it's such a great project. I am wondering if you have tried working with HyperCard 1.x and 2.x? I find it's one of the apps that emulators often struggle with, especially the visual transitions between cards.

Hi,

 

Thanks for the support, it is always appreciated! :-) The HyperCard situation is still the same as last year when we last discussed about it - basically, in Hypercard 1.x, some transitions are visible but feel a bit fast, while others are not visible almost at all, so it might be they are tied to the CPU speed in that version of the application. And I think I might have "broken" something, because now HyperCard 1.x makes a SysBeep every time a new stack is opened :-D And HyperCard 2.x is still stuck on missing styled textedit toolbox API.

 

For the past half year, our focus has been a lot on the newly added color quickdraw (and other "phase 2" features) which we have been excited about (right now I'm updating PICT recording to work with color ports and PICT2 format, to make ResEdit work in color mode), and also the summer has slowed down the progress a little bit (so much real-life things to do, especially now as the epidemic ended temporarily here at the beginning of the summer).

 

But that's a good reminder, I think prioritizing some unfinished non-color, "phase 1" features to be completed (such as in this case, styled textedit for hypercard 2.x) might be a good idea. Especially as a couple other applications also need it (at least editing text in Excel's cells, speedometer help and SimCity 2000 help windows are ones requiring the same missing toolbox API calls).

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Oh yes, I forgot about that. I also had some time to read through the compatibility notes on your site. Thanks for the reply and I'm looking forward to seeing your future developments.

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Wow, just stumbled across this thread today - never heard of M.A.C.E before but it looks really cool! I knew of the Reclassification project, but that's been dormant on GitHub for a while and was never beyond planning / alpha-quality. It's great to see such great progress in this area! My interest is firmly with HyperCard - I maintain the "HyperCard Stacks" collection at the Internet Archive, with over 3,500 stacks added so far. (This uses a JavaScript port of the PCE emulator, to allow the stacks to run in-browser).

 

I'm curious as to what the final business model for something like M.A.C.E is? Do you plan to open-source it? Or will it be a paid (commercial) offering?

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On 8/4/2020 at 7:39 AM, danda said:

I maintain the "HyperCard Stacks" collection at the Internet Archive

 

Oh wow! And you're in the UK!

 

I've uploaded one of my more recent stacks into that collection :) and it's super fun to explore being a mega HyperCard enthusiast myself

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On 8/4/2020 at 9:39 AM, danda said:

Wow, just stumbled across this thread today - never heard of M.A.C.E before but it looks really cool! I knew of the Reclassification project, but that's been dormant on GitHub for a while and was never beyond planning / alpha-quality. It's great to see such great progress in this area! My interest is firmly with HyperCard - I maintain the "HyperCard Stacks" collection at the Internet Archive, with over 3,500 stacks added so far. (This uses a JavaScript port of the PCE emulator, to allow the stacks to run in-browser).

Thank you, it's always nice to hear there is interest in this project :-) 

On 8/4/2020 at 9:39 AM, danda said:

I'm curious as to what the final business model for something like M.A.C.E is? Do you plan to open-source it? Or will it be a paid (commercial) offering?

Right now, the major plan is to create a FREE "Classic"-type runtime environment to allow everybody to use old Mac apps, but still keep it closed-source.

 

Ideally it would be awesome, if there would someday be a interest for a GOG-style service for old Mac games. We don't personally aim to create such service ourself, but we're happy if our tools help the creation of such a service. But realistically, we're just asking around Mac developers for permission of distributing the old games for free, and bundling them up as ready-to-run app bundles which are supposed to be as easy to use as possible (zero-installation, zero-configuration hassle).

 

Of course when we get the generic runtime environment someday ready, everybody can run any apps/games, we just want to make sure everything works as great as possible before we announce it, so that people won't get disappointed because of unfinished code/features.

 

But yeah as business model, right now the only thing remotely related to this is running the ads on our project page to try to cover the hosting expenses :-D Right now, we're covering a bit less than 0.1% of expenses per year :lol: Somebody suggested adding crowdfunding/donations etc, but we don't feel comfortable with that right now, as that would just add pressure to get finished quickly, and we only have limited amount of time to work on the project alongside the daily jobs.

 

Ps. Sorry for not replying earlier, for the past couple weekends I was working on this little unrelated hack for Color VETTE!, which I posted in separate topic on this forum: 

 

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Hi again,

 

It's still been a bit slow, but I managed to make a tiny bit of progress during this weekend. It's not much, but I helped Pukka fix some major issues in the 68020-specific full extension addressing mode in the 68K emulation, which allows us to run a bunch of games much further. And for fun, I also recorded a short video of Continuum gameplay, which I had planned to do since last year.

 

I wrote more details about this & uploaded screenshots of latest progress over here:

https://mace.software/2020/08/31/fixes-to-full-extension-addressing-mode-new-video/

 

As said, the summer has been really slow, but personally I'm going to speed up the development again now that the summer holidays are over, and I'll update this thread when we make progress - hopefully next time with more substance :-) 

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