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My screen is blue (Radius Pivot SE/30)

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1. I can confirm that your card is throwing 640x864 pixels at your display.

2. This is one strange card as compared to the later Color Pivot 030

 

WAG1 - The firmware (maybe hardware too?) is more closely related to the FPD cards than the Color Pivots.

WAG2 - The problem will be fixed in hardware, not software.

WAG3 - It's a reversed orientation sense code signal that's at the root of all WhackDoodle behavior of this card.

 

3. The card responds to standard Mac Monitor ID coding for LC 640x480

_____but displayis 640x864 in PortraitSTREEEEECH mode!

4. Same for  standard Mac Monitor ID coding for 12" RGB 512x384 of all things

_____displaying 640x864 in PortraitSTREEEEECH yet again.

5. Haven't found another standard Monitor ID encoding that displays an image.

6. In all other cases (that I recall, this is playtime, not a methodical workup)

_____the card defaults to throwing the Radius Splash Screen at the display at its horizontal resolution  .  .  .

7. Sideways!!!!!

9. In these cases the DeclROM confuses the Slot Manager to the point that it surrenders  .  .  .

_____refusing to recognize the card at all. It doesn't show up in TattleTech displays report.

 

WAG4 - info for reversing that signal on the cable will be found somewhere in the overgrown RCPII/IIsi thread. *

WAG5 - wedging the fix will be done easily ( :lol:) at the cable interface.

 

 

***** too dazed by all this nonsense to bother with looking up that link, much less find the info. Numbered entries are casual, but fairly dependable observations. The WAGs are the usual schtick. :scrambled:

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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WAG6 - This original (?) Card/Pivot combo was a single resolution 640x864/864x640 setup.

WAG7 - not gonna drive my Portrait at its native 640x870, but the Portrait's a tricky beast* so 640x864 might work.

 

 

* The portrait will display TPD resolution that's scrunched as badly as Portrait is stretched on a TPD.

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On 3/25/2017 at 11:42 PM, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Sweet! could you buzz and post the pinouts on that "monochrome" card cable. It looks like the ten pin cable I need to build for my FPD SE/30 card.

 

Not sure if that has been done yet...

I just got the old style SE/30 Pivot card from @tokyoracer (minus the cable)

 

Looking at my IIsi Pivot and the signals on the SE/30 card it should have the following pinout:

 

1	gnd
2	red
3	csync?
4	sense0
5	green
6	gnd
7	sense1
8	blue
9	gnd
10	69hz vsync
11	gnd
12	64khz hsync

 

Not sure on the csync... that signal goes to the SYNC pin on the RAMDAC, so it's possibly correct.

The frequencies on 10 and 12 have been measured without a anything connected to the card, so it seems like it is always outputting something (well, sync signals at least)

 

The harness for that card in the picture @BadGoldEagle posted only connects the blue signal, hence that fancy trick bridging that signal to the other color pins works.

Green and red signals are routed from the connector to the RAMDAC as well. Going to wire up an adapter quickly and see what happens...

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Here we go...

 

Put together an adapter from jumper wires - the pinout above is correct. Pin 1 is closest to the top of the card (opposite of the PDS connector)

 

IMG_9782.thumb.jpg.40cdfaac713f6b11670d2f9406dd813f.jpg

 

It's putting out 1152*864 and I am getting 2bit grayscale with the 256K VRAM on there right now.

IMG_9785.thumb.jpg.799c7a9205175bc92112b51ccf535325.jpg

 

Picture is smashed because of the pivot resolution. Played around with different settings on my VGA adapter but it always outputs the same resolution.

In fact if I set it to do 640*480 it will only display the Radius logo but won't show up in the monitors CP.

Also the card won't show up correctly in SlotInfo/Tattletech if there is no screen connected (or some weird sense line setup the card won't understand as it seems)

So they do sense if a screen is connected and disable the card so you don't get an external ghost display.

 

JP4 and JP5 will let you choose between slot IDs A and B. You have to move both jumpers at the same time and into the same position.

Couldn't figure out yet what JP1-JP3 do. If I change any of them things break. I get either a distorted screen or no screen at all.

 

 

Now to see if I have the correct type VRAM around to fill those two empty slots...

IMG_9786.jpg

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Nice one @Bolle! That's a really good looking cable!

 

I can't believe I let this card to sit around. It's great to see someone really appreciate it and get it up and running! I suppose that's what this place is all about. :)

 

Hopefully the display issues can be rectified with a bit of trial and error. It seems to me that Pivot displays are quite unique and replicating them could be tricky with modern monitors.

 

Are the ZIP RAM chips standard? One would hope that they wouldn't be to dissimilar to some that you see for sale quite often these days.

If so finger's-crossed that it would make the cards resolutions more flexible and might have the added bonus of more greys! 

 

Then once sorted, I suppose it's just a case of making an adapter plate. I suppose you could just 3D-print one (or get someone to make one), if you're not too rough with it.

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Nice job! Interested to know if the bit depth can be increased with more VRAM. What's the maximum size ZIP chip you can get?

 

Also, I don't quite understand why Radius made a greyscale and a color version of the SE/30 Pivot. The IIsi only got the color variant. 

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I currently own two of these cards and I wondered, what would happen if you populate the other memory slots?  So I tracked down some Micron 24-pin memory chips on eBay, and.....voila!  For your extra memory (and money), you get a glorious 16 shades of grey!   I was hoping for 256, but I guess 16 is better than nothing.  And of course, I did the cable hack:

DSCN5909.thumb.JPG.3bce7dc8751a30b94450132741c77eec.JPGDSCN5910.thumb.JPG.aa8f7645d85e996851b66c80940cd3c2.JPGDSCN5913.thumb.JPG.ca8603d569c915b085ba7cf0214606d7.JPGDSCN5914.thumb.JPG.4e15e9ac85cece8e9acefe62bba063a4.JPG   

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JT737, could you pretty pleaaaaase elaborate a little more on the red-green-blue cable hack! After much reading I finally could persuade my Pivot SE/30 to make me blue. How exactly did you connect the cables?

 

 

 

 

FF9AFCE9-A66F-4102-A742-812409D0A55B.jpeg

2570AA2C-149C-4C66-9F9A-4C94FFCA36A6.jpeg

22CA1570-3DD9-4A47-9304-7E25C79AB447.jpeg

Edited by Bendix

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So in this thread I found a pic provided by 9166188 of the pin situation between DB15 and VGA pinout

 

 

db-15t2vga.png

 

Bolle described the pinout of the 12 pins on the Radius card and JT737 seems to have connected the missing green and red lines on the card to the female DB 15 on the Radius clamp. But to which pins? And this approach is different from all the posts before, where the blue signal line was connected to the empty red and green pins/lines on the vga cable side. Since radius monitors are very rare I think it would make sense to manipulate the cable from the card to the clamp on the Mac side in a way, that you get a non blue pic with a standard db-15 to vga adapter. I am scared to destroy anything by connecting the wrong lines and would greatly appreciate, if someone could point me into the right direction how to best solve the blue screen problem practically.

Edited by Bendix

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I found another pic of JT737's card on the bay and a pinout of a female db-15 connector. From these two and 9166188's table above  I gather, that I have to solder red and green to pin 2 and 5 of the db-15 connector, right?

radius-pivot-cable-hack.jpg

db-15 female pinout.png

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Guys, it must be possible to convince the Pivot SE/30 Card, that it is connected to a landscape radius pivot monitor at boot time, i.e. displaying something like 864x640 on VGA. I found these two thread with a Radius Pivot IIsi card, indicating, that connecting pins 4 and 10 on the pivot side might do the trick. @Bolle, what do you think, might this work with our SE 30 cards?

 

 

 

 

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Forgot two things to mention: That looks absolutely great, Thanks ,Trash80toHP_Mini, for the Scaler Pics!

 

And I did like JT737 did and bought 2 Micron VRAM chips on ebay.de for 6€ (+1,10€ delivery!) and now I enjoy luxurious 4 bit gray scale, an update that Radius charged 150$ for back in those days. For future reference, the name of the chips is

Micron MT42C4256Z-7 256Kx4 70ns PZIP-28

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On 8/8/2019 at 3:55 PM, Bolle said:

1 gnd

2 red

3 csync?

4 sense0

5 green

6 gnd

7 sense1

8 blue

9 gnd

10 69hz vsync

11 gnd

12 64khz hsync

 

If this (above) is the pivot SE 30 pinout, then l connecting 4 + 10 like with the Pivot IIsi (below, quoted from the above mentioned WTB: Radius Pivot IIsi cable thread) is obviously nonsense, since with the Radius pivot SE 30 only 4 is sense and 10 is 69hz vsync.

 

On 11/16/2018 at 1:56 AM, nickpunt said:

If you want to build a combo video cable and VGA adapter with a hard-coded 832 x 624 sense code (which seems to be the highest possible Pivot resolution that's also supported by modern LCD monitors), here's the pin mapping:


CODE: SELECT ALL
PIVOT   VGA

1,6,13  4,5,6,7,8  VIDEO GND
2       1   RED VIDEO
4,10    NC   PINS 4 & 10 JUMPERED TOGETHER ON PIVOT END OF CABLE
5       2   GREEN VIDEO
9       3   BLUE VIDEO
11     11     C & V SYNC GND
12     14     V SYNC
14     10     H SYNC GND
15     13     H SYNC

 

 

But what if I were to connect sense0 and sense1 (pin4 and 7)? Could this lead to the desired permanent landscape mode in the SE 30 pivot?

 

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Last night I tested connecting sense0 and sense1 (pin 4 and 7) with no effect at all.

 

So can we conclude, that only connected to an original Radius pivot monitor the monitor can do it's magic during rotation on some sense lines on the card (which we do not know) and there is no way, to simulate this with, say a switch, and all we pivot SE/30 owners have to live with the stretched portrait mode on modern vga tft displays, except for those, who own the HDMI scaler?

 

End of story, hmm?

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I set a VGA adapter to run my IIsi Color Pivot in landscape mode at 16" resolution. Give that a try. IIRC BMOW worked out the signalling and we figured out a way to mount a ball switch adapter to a pivoting monitor  .  .  .

 

After searching back through 24 of the 39 pages of Hacks:

 

Info you need starts about here:

With the ball switch (replaces what I'd assumed to be a mercury switch) trick you should be able to automagically start up in either mode? When the card detects the setting for either at startup it should work? Still fuzzy on that, but have doubts we'll get pivoting on the fly up and running. But SoftPivot(?) might find the way? Dunno, still asleep.

 

If you have, or anyone else has found related threads to add to my list, PLEASE do so.

 

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Thank you so much for digging out that old thread! Will browse/read through it more thoroughly in the next couple of days. From what I have read so far I understand that ar least some radius software is needed in order to leave the 1152x640 resolution and get 640x864 or 864x640. Do you have an idea, where I can get that software and which version I would need for my grayscale radius pivot SE 30?

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But no matter which dip switches I choose on my vga adapter, I always end up with a resolution of 1152x864 like Bolle. Is that due to a lack of radius drivers or a problem with the vga adapter? 

09EDD056-F8EA-4C80-9148-BF71E53281F0.jpeg

FF487B12-E36C-4C77-921F-A95C34780799.jpeg

96275D8A-701E-47C1-9918-1E46A61DCC74.jpeg

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I had no idea any Pivot card might be capable of outputting anything more than 832x624@75Hz in 8biit)16" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard) and I don't think what you guys are seeing is real, I'm guessing that's a readout of the way the monitor is (mis)scaling the card's output to full screen and that very strange number reportage is a red herring?

 

What are the native resolutions of the panels you guys are running?

 

And you're welcome! Eventually search will turn up links to URLs that actually load. Still figuring out the symptoms to do a report. All my bookmarks to older threads are broken ATM and recovering the URLs from Properties (Firefox/Win10) erratically works with Google. Building a new links network seems to work fine.

 

edit: still AM fuzzy in PM mode. ::) What resolutions are the Pivot Card versions supposed to output? I'll let you search through the Pivot Q&As if you've not yet done so. ;)

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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Well, I think the original resolution of the radius pivot SE 30 grayscale is 640x864/864x640. The Eizo Flexscan L885 in the pic has a native resolution of 1600x1200 px.

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I am not sure it's possible to output something else without having another oscillator on there to get the pixel clock right for whatever resolution you are aiming for.

At least there is a spare open socket for another crystal so there must be a way to select that one for the pixel clock.

I didn't look into it any further yet to see where the sense lines go to and how the frequency selection works though.

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I'll put off my IIsi setup's teardown/SE setup for a bit if there's something you'd like me to test with the scaler. The portrait image above was obviously not the card we all have for SE/30. That's my SuperMac Spec/8 SI outputting Apple Portrait resolution. So far my testing has been on my 42" 1080p TV, I'll hook the scaler up to one of my UltraSharp MultiSyncs for testing the GS Pivot SE/30. That should display anything any card can throw at it. First up will be Portrait straight off the IIsi Vampire Video. [}:)]

 

 

edit: on second thought, maybe I should drag this crap out to the living room and run it on the MAG Innovision CRT that has a Resolution/Sync Rate readout panel. But the 21" MONSTER is a PITA to rotate into Portrait mode. ::)

 

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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