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  1. Today
  2. Trash80toHP_Mini

    Different Macintosh in Original User Guide?

    https://www.applefritter.com/content/macintosh-128k-prototype-twiggy-drive
  3. Trash80toHP_Mini

    Different Macintosh in Original User Guide?

    Definitely started out life as an early Twiggy Mac or was at least built with whatever was on hand in a redundant Twiggy bucket variant? Yours looks to predate the painted Twiggy case and the working Twiggy Mac that surfaced a while back, IIRC Yours post dates the one with no Icons used for SonyMicroDrive adaptation. More pics in ClearTwiggyProtoHoaxMacHacks™ Early advertising/promo material for the Mac fairly commonly had Twiggy Drive Bezels in evidence. edit: at least yours have cooling vents! It'll be interesting to see if yours has those three tabs when you open it up.
  4. superjer2000

    LC575 C2/C5 Capacitor Question

    Should say C2 not C20...
  5. PB145B

    Different Macintosh in Original User Guide?

    No problem. Oh, so you have two? Very cool! Definitely don’t blame you for wanting to keep one. I’d do the same. Definitely take photos when you crack it open! As far as the starting bid, I have no idea, You could start it a $0.99 and put a reserve on it, but I have no clue what the reserve should be. Good luck!
  6. North Hedge Ned

    Different Macintosh in Original User Guide?

    Thanks for the insight PB145B. I am likely going to keep one (although with age maybe the electronics go bad who knows), and sell one - yes. Trying to figure out starting bid. I have had these for over 20 years, and never gave them a second thought until now. I am going through my collection as it is time for the big purge. Thanks again for the insight. I wonder what I will find inside.... now to source a really long T15 screwdriver for cheap. I do have the Take apart tool - perhaps another rarity... Any further insight would be helpful - identifiers inside, etc.
  7. Trash80toHP_Mini

    Radius TPD/SE up and running . . . on an LCD no less!

    More like a tobacco pouch out of a buffalo's scro . . . whatever. Sillyscopes have always been out of my price range and will remain so it would seem, thanks. I'm not complaining about anything that's happened in this iteration of the process at all. Glad to have the screen come up with mouse movement, no matter color weirdness or artifacts. Never really expected to get this far. Feels good to have made some progress with a card I didn't think would ever have anything wrung out of it without the matching Radus TPD!
  8. PB145B

    Different Macintosh in Original User Guide?

    You have a VERY rare prototype Macintosh there! Not as rare as a twiggy Mac probably, but still rare nonetheless. It’s actually possible it started its life out as a twiggy Mac, and was upgraded by Apple engineers once they decided to use the Sony 3.5” drive. What’s it worth? That’s hard to say. I’d put in on eBay as an auction and let the collectors decide that (if you want to sell it). You could very well have a gold mine there. Apple protos can bring crazy amounts of money, especially something as historically significant as this machine.
  9. Hi All, I am very puzzled here. Everyone take a look at the picture here of the guy in the class room that shows the rear of an Original Macintosh from the User Manual: http://osxdaily.com/2011/08/24/the-original-macintosh-user-manual/ Notice anything strange? There is no large product product label on the back. Now, all of the other photos in the book that show the rear, have the label on the back. There is also something more strange. The badge is different in the top left! The Apple logo is to the right of something (more on that in a sec). The web shows that the badge on the rear first was the Apple Logo and the word Macintosh to the right of it (later models got the 128k added to that. So what gives with this model that the guy is using? A prototype? The only mention that I have seen on the web about a rear case whose badge has the apple to the right of something, the word apple, is the Twiggy Mac - the prototype Macintosh with a Twiggy Drive. That was until I looked at my two oddly serialized original Macintoshes. Mine have the Sony 3.5 drive, but the badge on the rear case is "apple" and the logo to the right of it! The serial number is had written and there is no product label on the back either - just like the one in the picture of the user guide!!! I have attached photos. I have to get them running as I have to find a boot drive. I was thinking to take them apart to see anything more inside that can help identify them. Can anyone here shed any light on these units and the one in the User Guide? Perhaps I am sitting on a gold mine here? Thanks in advance!
  10. superjer2000

    LC575 C2/C5 Capacitor Question

    I removed the caps from the logic board of the LC575 I just bought. Before soldering on new caps, I always like to check to ensure that the pads have continuity somewhere else on the board to see if I have to do any jumpering. The positive leg of C5 and C20 are connected and then C2 connects to a via that goes to the back side of the board. That via must connect to a middle layer in the board as you can't see any traces on either side. I have buzzed the pins of all nearby components and I just can't figure out what the positive side of C5 and C2 connects go (or my trace is broken). Would somebody mind using their continuity checker to see what C5/C2 should connect to?
  11. Bumping this thread up a bit, but I think it makes sense to keep all this in one place. I wanted to report that I am having similar issues. I picked up a Sawtooth the other day with a 1.2Ghz Encore ST installed. It had Leopard on it which seemed totally stable, but I bought this thing for OS 9 (OS X is for the dual MDD!) so I wiped it and installed 9.2.2. On OS 9 I get freezes like crazy. Sometimes it won't even finish booting, sometimes it makes it 5 minutes, sometimes 15, but inevitably it just totally locks up (no error, just the pointer, screen, audio etc all freeze). Certain things seem to make it more likely to freeze, such as trying to start Unreal Tournament, or copying a file over the network via FTP. I never got it to freeze when the system was left idle-- it would only happen if I was "doing something". Stuff I've tried (not necessarily in this order): Swapped RAM for known good sticks (tried about a dozen individual PC100 sticks with sizes between 128-512MB) Swapped the Radeon 9000 that was installed for a spare I had that I know works fine. I'd be curious to try an Nvidia card to see if it's a conflict with the ATI drivers, but I just have these two 9000s and a PCI 7000. Swapped hard drives Switched out the IDE hard drive to a SATA drive on a PCI SIL3112 controller Removed extra USB 1.1 card Verified installation of Sonnet extension and firmware update (system is on the correct 4.2.8 firmware with the Sonnet patch) Booting with only the Sonnet extension Booting with no extensions at all Cleared PRAM via Cmd-Opt-P-R Cleared NVRAM in Open Firmware Tested for issues using a bootable TechTool Pro disc -- primarily the RAM, but found no problems on any other tests either Unfortunately I don't have the stock CPU so I have no way of verifying that the Sonnet really is the problem... all I can do is keep swapping other things out in an attempt to find the problem.
  12. Gorgonops

    Radius TPD/SE up and running . . . on an LCD no less!

    Unfortunately I don't think that's going to be a lot of use for video work. It only has a 1M sample rate and an analog bandwidth up to 280Khz. You could probably work out the polarity of the vsync pulses with it but very likely not the hsync. (The hsync frequency of this mode is around 64khz, which means the hsync pulse length would have to be around a quarter of the whole line width to have fair confidence in it catching it.) "Baby" scopes like this are mostly useful for things like protocol analysis of fairly low speed single-wire busses. (That's why it mentions I2C, SPI, UART, etc.) If you're looking at new digital scopes you're probably going to be getting to the $300 ballpark for a cheap but mostly workable self-contained made-in-China unit with enough bandwidth to really be of much use. Depending on how much money the kids have to throw around here's a cheapy-cheapy $225 model that gets relatively decent marks: https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-DSO5072P-Digital-Oscilloscope-Bandwidth/dp/B00RJPXB6Y Any USB scope that sells for less than $100 probably isn't worth your time. Almost all of them are based on a few different Cypress Semiconductor microcontrollers, and even though they'll claim sample rates of 20mhz or better they usually start spitting out trashy gibberish-y waveforms well under that, and the software included with them is usually dreadful. (There are open-source projects out there that may or may not be compatible with a given scope that are sometimes better than what the manufacturer wraps around them, but ultimately you're deep in silk purse != sow's ear territory.)
  13. Trash80toHP_Mini

    Radius TPD/SE up and running . . . on an LCD no less!

    Makes sense. Looks like screen printing/half-toning screen terminology for such patterns translates directly into CRT interference pattern terms. Cool, didn't know about that, thanks. I knew it was a mid-range display (price-wise) when I bought it new. IIRC it's handled everything I've thrown at it despite that. Yep, once I fix up the SE Video and get the whole system set up, wallpaper will pretty much cure all. Like I said, I'd call this one usable as is. I've got another 21" CRT that's a pro grade ViewSonic and a 22" Dell monster of a CRT to test drive, but I really don't want to keep them around.
  14. Yesterday
  15. Trash80toHP_Mini

    Radius TPD/SE up and running . . . on an LCD no less!

    Just floating the notion, crazy or not. That sounds interesting. Duly noted. Are USB thingamajigs worth playing around with as a learning tool for applications like this? Digital USB Oscilloscope 2 ch + Logic Analyser 4 ch, FFT, I2C, SPI, UART, 1-WIRE Birthday and Father's Day approacheth.
  16. AlpineRaven

    86/9600 and G3 Case Specs

    Font is interchangeable but the rear with ports is different. - it has been a while Cheers AP
  17. trag

    G4 processor swaps

    They may just have routed the signals to the pins of the logic board/CPU card connector in different patterns for the two different models of machine.
  18. Unknown_K

    86/9600 and G3 Case Specs

    Could be. It has been over a decade since I stuck my head into my Beige G3 mt to look around, I just use it once in a while. I think I have that bottom tray in my 8600 with a couple UW-SCSI attached to it. The 8600 and 9600 case I think are the same so you might have clearance issues with the PCI slots. So easy to work inside those cases compared to the generation before.
  19. Cory5412

    86/9600 and G3 Case Specs

    I don't believe this part is present in the Power Macintosh G3 minitower at all. Its primary IDE hard disk is mounted at the top of the case above the power supply. Also, in an 8600/9600, you either do 2*3.5" hard disks (although you want to check clearances on a 9600 using the bottom PCI slot) or 1* 5.25" drive, which was still a thing you could buy in 1997. I think you can even mount a full height 5.25" disk in that position of the 8600 without interfering with any PCI cards. I would, of course, have to check, though. In the 9600, you can do it, but it would interfere with the bottom few PCI slots.
  20. trag

    Cache Puzzlement

    The appearance of two Performa 600s, which lack the IIvx's cache have sent me on an exploration of the art of the cache. This is a pretty good reference regarding the basics: https://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse378/09wi/lectures/lec15.pdf Basically, you have two sets of memory, which are smaller and faster than the next lower level of memory. Those two sets consist of Cache and TAG RAM. They have the same number of addressing bits. In other words, if you have 32K words of cache storage, then you have 32K tags as well. When a memory request is made, a portion of the address bits is used as an address to the cache storage and to the TAG storage. This portion of the address is called the index. The remainder of the memory address is the Tag or Tag Address. The word stored in TAG memory is looked at and if it matches the remainder of the address (the Tag address), then the address the CPU tried to access is already stored in cache, and the cache contents are used. Here's my puzzlement. I've been examining some real world caches. A IIci cache is pretty straight forward. It's made of four 8K X 8 SRAM chips for cache storage, which gives you an 8K X 32 memory. IIci has a 32 bit data bus, so good so far. And it has a couple of 8K X 8 chips for TAG RAM. The 8K portions match up. The 13 bits (13 bits => 8K) of cache address plus 15 bits of TAG storage (2 X 8 - 1; 1 is used for "valid" bit) = 28 bits of cacheable address space. Which is plenty for a machine with 128MB RAM maximum and considering it's one address per word, so 28 bits address space equals about 30 bits of byte space, depending on how they wired the addresses on the cache. The IIci has 32 bit addressing. And each word in memory is 4 bytes (2 bits to address) wide. And only 128 MB of RAM is possible (ignoring the memory map for the moment). So, in theory, one would need to deal with 128 MB => 27 bits, minus 2 bits because each word is 4 bytes wide => 27 bits - 2 bits = 25 bits of total cache address. With 8K of cache and TAG, that means that the Cache Index is 13 bits wide (8K => 13 bits). So the IIci needs a minimum of 12 (25 - 13 = 12) bits of Tag address. 13 bits of Index address, plus 12 bits of Tag address makes up the 25 bit cache address. Two 8 bit wide TAG RAMs minus a valid bit (2 X 8 -1), leaves 15 bits for the Tag address, so that's plenty and actually supports 1GB of RAM space, which I think matches the memory map. But again, 32K of cache memory means 32K TAGs or TAG words. Or in the case of the IIci 8K of Cache memory means 8K of TAG words. Okay, that wasn't my puzzlement. That was an example of how I'm not puzzled. Here's my puzzlement. I also examined a NuBus PowerMac cache. It consists of eight 32K X 8 SRAM chips, which gives the cache 32K X 64 memory. That's good. PowerPC uses a 64 bit data bus. But the Cache TAG is only 8K X 16. 13 bits of addressing, plus 15 (16 - 1) bits of tag is 28 bits, which again, is enough to cover all of the address space, wordwise. But 8K TAG addresses does not equal 32K of cache space. WTF? Are the NuBus PowerPCs using a 4 word block for every cache location? That might make sense. They could break up the address so that the lowest two address bits for the word are block index bits. Then the next lowest order 13 bits of address would be the cache index address sent to the TAG RAM. Then the 14 bits remaining would be the Tag Address compared to the TAG RAM contents to determine a hit or not. If there is a hit, then the lowest order 15 bits would be used on the Cache SRAM memory. But that would imply that every time the cache is loaded or cleared, it is loaded with 4 words at a time. Thoughts? There's no extra logic on the NuBus PowerPC cache, so it's limited to the comparators built into the cache RAM, and I guess the Bus Signal management is handled either in the chipset or on the PowerPC. On a IIci cache, logic for halting the bus while the cache housekeeping is done must live on the cache. Interestingly, on the cache for a PCI PowerPC Macintosh, there's just two sets of plain old SRAM. One set is clearly used as TAG, I guess, but it's not TAG RAM. It has no internal comparators. I'm not sure how that's working.
  21. Unknown_K

    86/9600 and G3 Case Specs

    I could use one. I have a few 9600's that could use a zip drive.
  22. jessenator

    86/9600 and G3 Case Specs

    Thanks, all. I found a dirt cheap one off an 8600 and leapt before checking to make doubly sure it would fit my G3 case. It's a lot more attractive than a bare panel, that's for sure. If either of you need/want a flush/contoured ZIP bezel, you can have first dibs for the price of shipping.
  23. Gorgonops

    Are these computers worth getting?

    No. The LC III is essentially the equivalent of a Performa 550(*) in terms of what's on the board but the form factors differ between the pizza boxes and the AIO's. It wasn't until you got to the 580/630 that they shared the same slotted-in design. (Which is incompatible without substantial hacking with the form factor used in the 520-575 and CC.) (* Actually the 520 is more strictly equivalent, as the plain LC III is also 25mhz. LC III+ is 33mhz.)
  24. Unknown_K

    86/9600 and G3 Case Specs

    The 8600/9600 and Beige G3 MT use the same bezels and metal bay trays. I forget if the optional plastic bottom HD mount is the same on both (you can install 2 x 3.5" HDs in the bottom of the case).
  25. maceffects

    86/9600 and G3 Case Specs

    The drive bezels are interchangeable. But despite the similar appearance few other external panels are interchangeable.
  26. waynestewart

    G4 processor swaps

    It's not bus speed as they made a couple of MDD models with 133 mhz bus speed. If it was otherwise hardware compatible then some of the aftermarket suppliers would have made their cpu upgrades for all G4s
  27. I know there was some redesign involved between the 86/9600 case and the G3's case. Did the changes extend as far as the front drive bezels or are they interchangeable? Found this image in an old thread for my own reference, and yeah, they were taller (more expansion), so I wonder if the drive bezel's changed that much.
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