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  2. Random 8500/8600 notes: It's super interesting to me to see people's thoughts on this machine because it feels like, both in 1995-1997 and today, everybody reads it a different way. It's really no different than a 7x00 but in a slightly bigger case with video output (and ultimately: faster CPUs) but the price rift between it and the 9500/9600 often meant the 8600 was seen as the highest end possible system for office or personal use, with the 9000s relegated to workgroup server or ultra high end graphics workstation uses, or Avid video editing setups where six PCI slots were absolutely mandatory. I too typically interpret the 8500/8600 (I'm being careful to frame it this way because the positioning absolutely changed from first to second gen) as a fairly high end content creation box, sitting above the 7500/7600, which have video input, which I tend to think of as being for video conferencing rather than multimedia work. The 8500 and 8600 also had faster video disks available, which the 7000 series did not, and as I mentioned above, more cache, even in otherwise matched configs (7300/200 and 8600/200, primarily). I suspect a lot of people using them as office boxes were mostly doing it because of the minitower form factor and growing display sizes (multiple scan 17s, 1705, and 20 being inexpensive and viable for high end excelbox functionality relative to a couple years prior), and not becaue they needed the second disk bay or a half-height drive or an a/v disk or video output or anything quite like that. Incidentally, I went ahead and looked at 8500 configs on everymac: 8500/120 1995-08-07 to 1996-04-01 8500/132 1996-04-22 - 1996-09-19 (same date as 8200/100 and 8200/120) 8500/150 1996-04-22 - 1996-09-19 8600/180 1996-09-19 - 1997-02-04 If this is accurate, the 8500 was technically discontinued entirely on April 1 1996 and then re-introduced entirely at two new speeds a couple weeks later and then speed-bumped to a single new speed later in the year. I'd be entirely unsurprised to find out that this information is wrong, however. ANd, customary to mid-late '90s Apple, you could absolutely have found one of these after discontinuation. Probably! Re that wire, they're informally referred to as bodge wires and on 68k boards you usually see them as in-place upgrades on early board revisions (which, probably not for an 8500 that shipped as a /150) or as impromptu fixes for bad traces during testing. So, there's a couple systems where you'll see a lot of different examples with the same fix and some where not many of them had that fix. So, I don't think it's a prototype. It's the last of at least three generations of machines to use its case and it's a mid-model speedbump, (I very sincerely don't know why there was three weeks where the 8500 was off the books entirely.) THe black case is very interesting. You could make the argument it's in part because Apple knew their beige plastics weren't going to hold up long term, I have books from 1993 that talk about how bad the Quadra 800's case is, compared to everything else Apple built, so it might have been an attempt to save the model or make things better who bought one ahead of what I presume Apple already knew about, the big redesign of the 8600/9600. This is a more interesting upgrade strategy than what I typically see, which basically involves an extremely formulaic approach to turning every PCI PowerMac 7000/8000/9000 into a worse version of a Power Macintosh G4. I love RAM and storage upgrades and I like all the weird little cards you could get for these things when they were new, and to a certain extent I see why people upgraded to G3s in-situ, especially before the prices on brand new Power Macs absolutely cratered in 1998. (It was to the point where a brand new G3 desktop only really cost a bit more than a G3 upgrade and some other upgraded parts for a PCI PowerMac would've cost.) Lifecycles in general fascinate me and I can see why in the early-mid 2000s people were interested in filling 9500s and the like with all the bits to make a Power Mac G4, because on the eve of the Intel-based PowerMacs, all the bits to upgrade a 9500 to run 10.4 pretty well were fairly cheap and it would be serviceable in its second or third life. I see why people are interested in that but I just am not. I've got a 6100 with one, the 7100/8100 didn't support it but the 7200 and all the other first round of PCI PowerMacs supported them, maybe it was a 7200?
  3. corgski

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    So yes, the 32MB Radeon 7000 issue has to be some sort of firmware bug or limitation as it fails to output 1920x1200 over its dvi port.
  4. WakelessFoil

    Booting Mac Plus with scsi2sd...

    No worries. I tried Lido 7.5.6 but for some reason it does not recognize the device properly or sometimes not at all. When I run Lido it scans through all the SCSI device ID's rather quickly but stops at the ID that I set the SCSI2SD to (0 and 1) and spits out a error. Could this be that the system extension has a black X over it when the Mac boots? maybe thats why Lido can't see the device?
  5. LaPorta

    About lubricating that floppy drive...

    For one reason or another, I have never come across a Sony auto-inject with the dust sleeve in place. One issue I am currently having is my SE's drive appears to be sitting too close to the case on one side, causing disk contact with that side slightly on eject, slowing it down. I am not sure how I managed to misalign it...
  6. LaPorta

    SCSI2SD Issues

    You can do that with I believe 7 and later...but under 6 (which most systems that have my SCSI2SDs run) you cannot. I am sure if I was ambitious, those icons are just resources I could swap out with ResEdit.
  7. olePigeon

    About lubricating that floppy drive...

    I ran into a problem with the plastic sleeve. I have 2 of them. When not installed in the floppy drive bay, they work fine. But after installed, the plastic protector interferes with the eject mechanism somehow.
  8. dcr

    SCSI2SD Issues

    Was it System 7.5 or earlier that allowed you to change icons with cut and paste? I seem to recall you could download files that contained blank folders with custom icons. You clicked a folder with an icon you liked, did a "Get Info" on it, selected the icon in the info window, copied, then clicked your hard drive icon, did a "Get Info" on that, selected its icon in the info window and pasted.
  9. pcamen

    SCSI2SD Issues

    ha ha ha ha. I actually thought they were kinda novel when I saw them. Is there a better alternative for setting the HD icons?
  10. LaPorta

    SCSI2SD Issues

    Only thing I don’t like about Lido is those awful HD icons it makes you choose from.
  11. pcamen

    SCSI2SD Issues

    Hmm. 4 gigabytes is 4194304 kilobytes according to this converter: https://convertlive.com/u/convert/gigabytes/to/kilobytes#4 I must be a few k high, as my SE/30 running 7.5.5 rejected the partitions of that size.
  12. techknight

    SCSI2SD Issues

    Yea, Lido is awesome. I use it for everything. I have 2, maybe 3 of these things and I have not had an issue yet setting any of them up.
  13. Today
  14. pcamen

    SCSI2SD Issues

    Holy crap why haven't I been using LIDO?
  15. Yeah, I've seen a lot of Mac internals and I don't think I've ever seen one with an internal black plastic frame like this. My first thought when I saw it was "OMG, is this a prototype?!?" but (other than the previously-mentioned patch wire which probably doesn't mean anything) I don't see any indication that it is. I guess it's just an oddball? The black plastic feels sturdy and robust, and I don't see any bits of it anywhere in the machine. The internal beige plastics though are everywhere - tons of plastic crumbs littered the inside of the case when I opened it, the power button snapped into three pieces despite me handling it like a wounded hummingbird, etc. Same! @Cory5412 - thank you for the thoughts and (extensive!) suggestions about possible upgrades for the machine. I know we differ a little in our approach (you tend to lean towards keeping things closer to stock, more-or-less, while I tend to upgrade my machines as though they were still current-generation and I was just super rich in the 90's and wanted to see how far I could push them, LOL), and I really appreciate all your ideas. I'm especially interested in finding a PC Compatibility card for this thing - I had one ~20 years ago in my PowerMac 7100 (I think? Been a long time) and remember having a lot of fun with it. Time to start searching, I guess!
  16. just.in.time

    SCSI2SD Issues

    @techknight if I’m not mistaken (though I may be), the SCSI2SD v5.x boards have on board termination and I want to say it is enabled out of the box (physically on older red boards, via firmware on newer green boards) I’ve had great luck setting up ~5 of these (SE/30, SE FDHD, CC, LC520/50, and a PM6100), all bus powered with only one of which I tried to play with the config settings on. Usually I just pop in a new SD card, plug into the Mac, and use Lido to partition the SD into ~2gb partitions (except the pm6100, let it have all the space on OS 9.1). I give 4 partitions and leave the rest blank. I imagine the starting format of the SD card is fat/exfat or whatever would be PC compatible. Lido reformats it to Mac HFS. On the pm6100 after Lido I think I reformatted from finder to HFS+ prior to OS install iirc. But it’s been about a year since I set one up, maybe newer firmware has a bug or something.
  17. Huh, yeah, that black internal frame is interesting. I've never seen that before.
  18. olePigeon

    Interware VDR-2a video card for Macintosh SE/30

    I wonder if it'd be possible to add a full color splash screen in-ROM. I guess if you replaced the Happy Mac. I seem to recall DougG3 found that the Happy Mac could be in color.
  19. KnobsNSwitches

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    This has been a great discussion....bascially, I need to get a cube. I mean, I'd hate this monitor to go to waste. Fortunately, ScutBoy has already been in touch about a potential one.
  20. Very nice find, and great that you were able to get it running again! I know I say this every time but I'm going to vote for leaving it more or less stock, perhaps save a storage upgrade - whether that's a USCSI drive and contemporary disks or a SATA drive and some totally baller 2TB disks (the max the machine will run) - they'll be a huge boost for video capture in particular which is absolutely what an 8500 would love to do. Or: use period upgrades: If it doesn't already have it, I'd say to pop a VRAM upgrade in and if you want some contemporary fun, there was an Avid Cinema card for this machine, and there's also the PC Compatibility card with video input via GIMO, which the 8500 should have if I'm remembering correctly. There was a Rage card with some video compression and in/out that might be fun in this machine too, even though that would really be a better fit for a blue-and-white or a 7300. (It was also talked about in macworld at the time as an option to both add video and slightly better gamer graphics to a 6400 when those were new.) If you want, a /180 or /200 CPU from basically any other 604 powermac should run here and will probably get you a bit of a boost. If you can choose, 8600/9600 /200 CPUs have more cache than the ones from the 7300/7600[JP]. I largely still don't believe that system 7 really benefits much from a G3, except on paper in benchmarking scenarios. a blue-white G3 or a powermac G4 will probably run all that software faster if performance is your top priority. (i.e. building a powermac g3 out of an 8500 results in a worse powermac g3 than if you just built/bought a powermac g3) If you were to do video on it is probably the one exception, but even then I'd be tempted to leave it stock and just deal with waiting. An accessory you might look at is the apple quicktime conferencing kit, mostly just for the kick of doing isight style videos on '90s hardware. (I need to pull my own such cam out of storage). If you can source one, a quickdraw accelerator or an ISDN card would be a neat add, if not strictly speaking "practical." We talked about this on Twitter but that black interior frame is just wild to me. To be honest if I had this machine I'd very consider running it open because that frame kind of looks cool, compared to other machines I've seen. I don't really think it's a particularly early machine, I'd have to go check applespec or everymac but IIRC the 8500/150 was a later SKU even, following a /120 and /132, (but I could be mistaken, my apologies and I'll make a note of it if I go look and am wrong.) Also, the 8500's case uses mostly identical plastics to the 840 and 8100/8200, and perhaps even the 800, so that's certainly not early production, either. As stuff disintegrated, were you finding it was the black case or the other beige bits surrounding it?
  21. Cory5412

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    Definitely a good note. Does anyone have a line on what the DVI to ADC adapters even cost these days? I don't want to imply that a 6400 isn't worth it but I'll put bet you can probably get something like a dell ultrasharp 1908FP cheaper at a local thrift store. When I last looked it Wasn't Cheap and they also don't support the 17-inch CRT Studio displays. I second the general recommendation to get a Cube if you want one anyway and use your ADC monitor with that system (or any other relevant powermac G4 or G5) and pick something a little easier to connect for the 6400 -- whether that's a Multiple Scan 14 or 15, which would be beautiful with it, or a 2000s 4:3/5:4 business LCD.
  22. Here's an album with pics and info - some cool stuff in here (including a "Snow" iMac I haven't tested yet)! https://imgur.com/gallery/0sQp36q A quick TL;DR: for anyone who skims the pics without reading all the descriptions: this past weekend I was given a PowerMac 8500/150 by its original owner, a very nice lady who used it as part of her graphic design business from the mid-90's through early 2000's. Her hope was that I could recover her old work before I re-image the machine, which (as of late last night) I've done successfully, thanks to some great suggestions from /r/VintageApple. I was happily surprised to fire up Netscape Navigator 4.0 and find that it had a cached sample of the Netscape.com homepage from Spring 2000, including a promotional feature about Tom Cruise in Mission: Impossible 2. Neat! As with many machines from this era, many of the the plastic parts are now so brittle, they feel more like dried clay than plastic. Sadly several parts crumbled while I was cleaning the machine and replacing the RAM stick which had come loose inside, but overall it's functional and just a badass machine for running System 7. If anyone happens to have a replacement for the front facing power-button, I'd love to buy one... Any suggestions on what cool upgrades I should pop in here? That CPU slot and three empty PCI slots are calling to me!
  23. EvilCapitalist

    ADC video card that works for 6400 ?

    Since I didn't see it mentioned yet (unless I missed it) you're not going to find a PCI card that supports ADC right out of the box, since that used a separate connector in front of the AGP connector to provide power, which you can see in red on the GeForce 2MX in the picture below. Your only option would be using the ADC to DVI adapter and at that point, as others have mentioned, you've got a very slim list of PCI video cards that a Mac compatible and have DVI output that you don't have to flash. Short of buying a Cube, which at this point you should do anyway if you want one as it's not like they're going to get any less expensive, I'd say the easiest option would be going all out on adapters...which in this case is the ADC to DVI converter, and then a DVI to VGA converter on top of that.
  24. techknight

    SCSI2SD Issues

    Termination is REQUIRED on a SCSI bus. Period. At the end of the chain. So if there is a SCSI HDD in a Mac, you must terminate this drive. If you plug a drive externally, you MUST terminate that drive too! But if you insert a drive in the middle of the chain, you do NOT need to terminate those drives. only the END OF THE CHAIN needs terminated. If there is only one drive in the chain, That is your termination point. Terminators are there to impedance match the "transmission lines" to prevent reflections, or bus errors.
  25. LaPorta

    Questions about the SCSI2SD (Macintosh SE/30)

    If installing the SCSI2SD internally in any flavor of SE or a Classic, the termination power does run the drive. I’ve installed them in every single type and it works fine. Yes, you can format the card on a modern Mac, I’ve had some success formatting it under OS 9 on my iMac G4 and copying files then using them on the Classic Mac. More recently I used it to completely wipe the card blank, and then let and HD SC Setup install the driver partition, etc, on the machine itself. Ill admit, I’m the wrong person to ask about starting from scratch since I’ve always had a host of old Macs and a boatload of saved software, so I’ve always just copied what I have and got any machine running I need via floppy or FloppyEmu.
  26. techknight

    Questions about the SCSI2SD (Macintosh SE/30)

    I think these cards run of the termination power provided by the machine. the Plus doesnt have it, but the SE/30 should so the 25 pin cable is all you need. To get termination power on a plus, you have to install the diode on the logic board that provides it.
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