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JDW

Modern PSU for the SE/30

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I need a new PSU for my SE/30, and it would be best if I got a modern one that supplies more power than the stock PSU. Any idea what ARTMIX could be using?  (I doubt they made a custom designed power supply just for the SE/30.  It certainly must be an off-the-shelf model, I would think.) 

 

http://www.artmix.com/hps_2009_EVO.html

 

There are two +12V outputs, one being for the SWEEP. I assume these are isolated?  For why offer two +12V output's instead of one powerful +12V unless they are needed to be isolated (to avoid noise issues)?

 

I might be able to afford one PSU from ARTMIX, but I'd really like more than one since I have more than one SE/30.  But at $200 a pop, that's too expensive, which is why I am posting here to see if anyone might know of a PSU that would fit inside the stock metal case and offer the same 4 outputs as the stock, but with higher current ratings.

 

It's amazing to me that despite all the hundreds if not thousands of us who own and love SE/30's, you don't find any "rebuilt" PSUs for the SE/30 for some reason (outside ARTMIX). That implies that nearly every SE/30 owner on this planet is either using a stock PSU, or possibly a recapped PSU (which would not put out more power than a new stock PSU, which isn't designed for that many add-ons). The reason I seek a modern PSU inside the stock metal PSU enclosure is to cover any power requirement, regardless of the add-ons I add inside (HDD, PDS cards, etc.)  I therefore look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Thanks.

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There was a huge thread on this that disappeared into the Ether after the forum upgrade. Grrrr.

 

The Artmix supply is most likely a MeanWell 125B, which hardly has the specs ARTMIX advertises.  Keep in mind Artmix is currently selling unlicensed modified clones ("SD SusanoMonster") of the SCSI2SD, and refuses to comply with the GPL, which that project requires. He's hardly a trustworthy individual:

 

meanwell.thumb.jpg.927485af07af219d61fc87f3e746f480.jpg

Thanks to another forum member for that image.  I deduce it is the 125B, as it is the only MeanWell power supply in that form factor which has a -12V output (as referenced by the blue wire coming directly off the MW header).

 

I had previously (in that other thread that is now gone) dissected an original Sony PSU for the SE-SE/30 and found the only "isolation" between the 12V Sweep and the Drive outputs were a single diode and filter capacitor.  So it's not like there is an isolated transformer or some such nonsense on the original power supply.

 

If I had to guess, our friend Artmix is taking some of the 11.5A 5V output and using it in a 5V to 12V step up:

5v-12v.jpg.50ab07accc5ce696199c0c6bbf4ea597.jpg

 

Note the similarity to the small board to the left of the MW in the prior photo.  This derived 12V is probably used as the Drive rail, with the original 12V 3A used for the Sweep.

 

Not happy with the Artmix price, or perceived deception concerning the power output, I simply used a FSP mini ITX power supply in my original casing (again, all this was in that now lost post).  It was cheap (open box from Amazon for a ridiculously low price, around $30 or so), already had "isolated" 12V rails, and more power than I'll ever use, 220W.

IMG_0449.thumb.jpg.cc314c85126b9a4372a23a881586e999.jpg

 

There were concerns I would need to put a small load on the 3.3V rail of the FSP mini, which could be easily done with a power LED and couple of resistors, but this ended up not being necessary.  System runs flawless with rock-steady voltage. 

IMG_0451.thumb.jpg.a25f76848a0871140cd9ccb09b2e8895.jpg

 

It's intended for my PowerCache/Grayscale/Ethernet buildout when I can get to that project.

 

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Edit:  Post made irrelevant by JTZ's concurrently timed post above (he has information, I was guessing).

Edited by trag

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I won't say it's impossible, because I'm ignorant, but logic suggests to supply the amperage Artmix advertises, the unit would need be much larger than the 5x3 footprint.  Other MeanWell power supplies with increased output are too large to fit inside the stock case.  But, yes, you are right, I'm totally guessing here as well.  The Artmix supply does have the MeanWell logo on it, so there's that.

 

The stock power supply I believe is around 75W, and it supplies 5V@6A, 12V@1.25, 12V@2.1A, and -12V@0.5A

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joethezombie,

Thank you for your detailed reply.  It seems you were talking about the following model number, which sells on Amazon brand new for about $52:

 

FSP220-60LE

 

But as I thought, even though they sell them on Amazon Japan, where I live, they sell for $60 plus another $30 for shipping, with no combined shipping. That indicates they’re shipping them from overseas. But Amazon USA won’t ship directly to Japan. 

 

Do you have photos or video of all of your modifications, specifically of how you mounted the internals of that FSP power supply safely and securely inside the SE/30’s stock metal PSU enclosure? 

 

Based on your design, it would also seem that the Sony PSU enclosures, which don’t have all those air vent holes in them, would probably NOT be best to use with your power supply configuration in light of the fact you’re using a fan inside. 

 

Alternatively, if you or any other electrically savvy person here would be willing to build 2 of them for me, and test them, and ship them to Japan, that would be even better, and I could pay you for your time. The end result might generate a new business for you. For truly, I’m not the only SE/30 owner out here  who is in need of a rebuilt, modern power supply. ARTMIX knows that, but $200 for one plus shipping, especially when you want to buy more than one, is just too expensive. 

 

trag,

It’s nice to hear from you. It’s been a number of years since you and I last talked.  Except for power supply problems, my SE/30s are still running great on the replacement tantalum capacitor kits I bought from you so long ago.

 

I don’t think ARTMIX did a custom run of power supplies because in Japanese on his site he specifically says “reservation only.“ That seems to indicate that he only starts building them when he gets an order. 

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I wonder if you could use a small form factor ATX power supply. Then from that point you could do the soft-power mod. 

Edited by techknight

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@JDW,

I used PC motherboard standoffs drilled and placed into the case, using the mounting hole pattern of the mini ITX power supply board.  No video, but I have a few other pictures I should be able to dig up.  Also, the Sony power supply should have all those holes in them along the perimeter walls.  It's only the removable side cover that is solid.  Oh, and I actually removed the fan after testing.  It was a variable fan, but only ran at the lowest setting at all times.  I mean, it's a 220W power supply, and I'm sure I'm using well under 100, probably 85 tops.  With such little load, it doesn't run hot.

 

As far as making these things, maybe one day when I retire.  But with kids, job, wife, friends, and building a house, I can't even complete the vintage projects I have waiting for myself!

 

@techknight,

Yes, that's what I've done.  I left the soft-power leads intact for future soft-power experimentation.  But I'm unsure where to pull power-up/down signal from the SE/30 logicboard.  /PFW, although is stated to exist on the PDS connector in the documentation, is in reality non-existent on the SE/30.

 

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We had a nice tangent going about this in another thread fairly recently. Someone posted pics of the Artmix PSU and we discussed Mini-ATX conversions there IIRC.

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11 minutes ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

We had a nice tangent going about this in another thread fairly recently. Someone posted pics of the Artmix PSU and we discussed Mini-ATX conversions there IIRC.

Was that thread lost in yet another disk crash (with no backups), or does it exist but simply cannot be found due to the forum search feature not working?

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33 minutes ago, joethezombie said:

@JDW,

I used PC motherboard standoffs drilled and placed into the case, using the mounting hole pattern of the mini ITX power supply board.  No video, but I have a few other pictures I should be able to dig up.  Also, the Sony power supply should have all those holes in them along the perimeter walls.  It's only the removable side cover that is solid.  Oh, and I actually removed the fan after testing.  It was a variable fan, but only ran at the lowest setting at all times.  I mean, it's a 220W power supply, and I'm sure I'm using well under 100, probably 85 tops.  With such little load, it doesn't run hot.

 

That's good to know.  I'm like Steve Jobs in that I strongly dislike fan noise.  I actually replaced the stock fan in one of my SE/30's and now use a Silenx.  I had a thread on that here, but like so many threads, it has been deleted (or impossible to find with the search feature).

 

Sorry for asking for so many specifics, Joe, but would you mind giving me a link to the "PC motherboard standoffs" and a pic that shows how you drilled them?  

 

If I can't get one of you gentlemen to build one for me (for any price) then I would need to go about it myself, and in that case I would document with photos and or a full length video on YouTube, for the benefit of others in our vintage Mac community.  I did basically that with my 2009 iMac video card bake videos (see Description for link to my 1st Bake):

 

 

I made those videos at first for my own benefit (since I am so forgetful and would need such a reference in the future if I needed to try it again), but also for the benefit of others, seeing that no other YouTube video went into the depth I consider needed for MOST PEOPLE to do the same job.

 

So again, the more pics and details you can provide (step-by-step guide?) on building that FSP220-60LE power supply would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you!

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Don't have time to look. ISTR omidimo posting pics of his MaxPower in it. He or whoever could search "my attachments" to find it  .  .  .

 

.  .  .  back to work I go!

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I bought one of the Artmix SE/30 Hyper power supply. I contacted him about it and a few weeks later he got in touch telling me he had a few, they are clearly custom built. I can take it out of my Xceed/Dimo SE/30 if you want better shots of the parts. 

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18 minutes ago, omidimo said:

I bought one of the Artmix SE/30 Hyper power supply. I contacted him about it and a few weeks later he got in touch telling me he had a few, they are clearly custom built. I can take it out of my Xceed/Dimo SE/30 if you want better shots of the parts. 

Oh yes, please!  I would love to see sharp, well-lit photos of the internals of your ARTMIX PSU.  When did you purchase it, by the way? (The 2009 edition?)

 

I have a 50MHz DiiMO and MacCon Ethernet both in the same SE/30, and then I have another SE/30 which has my Xceed Grayscale setup (the one which now no longer boots) and which has a socketed accelerator on the motherboard.  No Ethernet on the Grayscale SE/30 though since I don't know how to make it fit.  Do you?

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Tangent thread where we talked about power supplies was non other than the infamous Protocache1 thread here:

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/30532-protocache1-iisise30-powercache-adapter-prototype-development/&page=6

 

@JDW,

That thread may be helpful for your future endeavors.  I toned out and created schematics for the DayStar PowerCache adapter, then decoded the GAL logic so @Bolle could create a squashed version of the card that tops an Asante ethernet adapter after being surgically altered with a wrong angle hack.  This allows for 50MHz 030, ethernet, and grayscale (and also avoiding the overpriced Artmix clone of the DiiMO adapter).

 

 

Edited by joethezombie

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2 hours ago, JDW said:

trag,

It’s nice to hear from you. It’s been a number of years since you and I last talked.  Except for power supply problems, my SE/30s are still running great on the replacement tantalum capacitor kits I bought from you so long ago.

 

I don’t think ARTMIX did a custom run of power supplies because in Japanese on his site he specifically says “reservation only.“ That seems to indicate that he only starts building them when he gets an order. 

 

It's good to see you posting as well.    I think your logic is sound.   That does not sound like he has 200 of them in boxes ready to ship.

 

1 hour ago, techknight said:

I wonder if you could use a small form factor ATX power supply. Then from that point you could do the soft-power mod. 

 

Mini-ITX would be the way to go, I think.      Tempting to take  a look at the guts of one or more of these to see how they'd fit:

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007657&IsNodeId=1&Description=mini itx power supply&name=Power Supplies&Order=PRICE&Pagesize=36&isdeptsrh=1

 

Some of the least expensive ones have some bad reviews, but at least one reviewer freely admits that he may have been overloading the supply.   That's unlikely to be an issue if one puts a 180 - 300 watt supply in an SE/30.     Of course, these modern supplies are heavier on the 12V and lighter on the 5V that would probably be best for our uses.

 

I was looking at them as a possible MDD power supply guts replacement, and while their overall ratings get high enough, their individual power rails just don't match up very well.  Too much of the overall capacity is devoted to 12V.

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6 minutes ago, joethezombie said:

 

@JDW,

 

That thread may be helpful for your future endeavors.  I toned out and created schematics for the DayStar PowerCache adapter, then decoded the GAL logic so @Bolle could create a squashed version of the card that tops an Asante ethernet adapter after being surgically altered with a wrong angle hack.  This allows for 50MHz 030, ethernet, and grayscale (and also avoiding the overpriced Artmix clone of the DiiMO adapter).

 

 

So many cool projects being done.   I really want to get back to my work bench some day...   You guys will have them all done before I get back into it.

 

These may be useful for power supply hackery.  They are cheap little DC-DC converters.  They only support about 2 - 3 amps though.  

 

DC-DC Converter modules

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@JDW Here you go, and I just wanted to say it was your flickr pictures that got me obesessed with building this SE/30! :D 

 

I contacted Artmix aka Manabu Sakai in late May 2016 and he got back to me in July with availability of one in stock and I snapped it up. I am assuming he does not build these often.

 

The Power supply is housed inside an old Sony PSU with custom screw holes for the two pieces, the Mean-Well power supply is PPT-125B, and the custom piece is the step up board by Stratos.

 

StratosSE30PowerSupply1.thumb.JPG.d5a927ad07ff3076f8e4b213d646e0c3.JPG

 

StratosSE30PowerSupply2.thumb.JPG.ead5db73e13e8cbcfcc392403b495ccd.JPG

 

StratosSE30PowerSupply3.thumb.JPG.243b500e63ba1c05b87f7e972249e102.JPG

 

StratosSE30PowerSupply4.thumb.JPG.3402eeb7fb1475ee3c6c8349a20e24c2.JPG

 

StratosSE30PowerSupply5.thumb.JPG.c9fc70c16c97145e4625ca16207d6618.JPG

 

StratosSE30PowerSupply6.thumb.JPG.6f105d3a02244b58030c00b2db68e718.JPG

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Those are absolutely beautiful pictures, @omidimo!  Thanks so much.  The mods should give you an intelligence gathering tag for your efforts!

 

Absolutely confirms my thoughts.  On the small board, the LT1268 is a 5V to 12V boost converter, exactly as I suspected.  Could you tell me to what pin the on the SE/30 power connector the small board connects?  This will tell us if it is powering the Sweep or the Drive circuits.

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The ATX -> Mac Gazette AKA: ATX LinksProject™  is one of my threads which has gone missing in the most recent forums upgrade, IIRC. I'd posted links from all over the Mac forums. There's a lot of good info over on 'fritter if it has surviverd their recent upgrade.

 

Mods: is there any way we could host a backup of the forums from before this past upgrade like the Snitz archive? You guys did a GREAT job getting things up and running, restoring the lost attachments from the previous upgrade, but it seems we've lost more than pictures, we're missing real content this time around.

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I plan to follow this thread closely. I'm not seeing a downside in using the FSP mini ITX supply noted above.  

 

I found another related thread in case it helps anyone. 

 

 

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I'm not a fan of dumping any old PSU into an Apple Power Supply Can without airflow/cooling analysis. Heck, I'm not sure Apple did all that wonderful a job of specifying what went in their own cans from the get go. I just took a look at the PPT-125B Datasheet:

 

Meanwell-18CFM-Fan.JPG.779b4dafdb3894d453e17f8c5afb5df0.JPG

 

Seems like it calls for 18CFM of active cooling in something more like the open spaces of a piece of stereo equipment. Methinks it's not intended to be haphazardly stuffed into a metal crate with holes on top and bottom for half-assed convection cooling that's aided by just a small fan mounted above and at the back that's expected to cool not just PSU, but CRT, A/B, logic board and all the crap whith which we're packing the SE/30 to the gills.

 

Could someone post pics of the insides of the real deal? I'm hoping the heat sinks are pretty much aligned vertically to pull air from bottom to top inside the OEM PSU. They were set up in a vertical orientation on the 128-Plus A/B to direct airflow up and out the top vents Jobs didn't think were needed. ::)

 

Take a look at the horizontal positioning of the Mean Well PSU in the illustration. The heat sinks are three sided sheds with slots/holes in the roof for convection cooling. Turn that assembly on its side to fit within the SE/30 sheet metal as Artmix did and the passive cooling designed into the Mean Well PSU is negated.

 

I like the idea of putting an actively cooled, temperature controlled fan equipped Mini-ITX PSU in its stock sheet metal into Apple's can. Position air dams directing all the air entering from the bottom of the stock can so that it passes into the PSU in all the right places from the correct directions and then it all exits via the PSU's temperature controlled fan and out the upper side of the air dam setup, exiting the perforations on top, preferably aimed a bit at the system exhaust fan above and behind.

 

Tired, hope this makes some sense in words.

 

edit: when I posted I noticed the mass of connectors/wires blocking up the open side of the front heatsink shed. NOT the spot to do wire mismanagement with a zip-tie.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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@omidimo, thats perfect!  It shows the small board takes 5V from the MeanWell, boosts it to 12V, and powers the SWEEP.

 

jt, in the datasheet, we see it is rated for 125W with a fan, and 100W with convection cooling.  Even with Ethernet, 50MHz 68030, and grayscale, I doubt we'd be using 100W.  I think the convection cooling would be adequate.

 

EDIT:  Forgot to add, it is not a trivial task to use the mini ITX power supply.  There is a BOAT LOAD of wires that I had to desolder, cut, and/or insulate to get a usable bundle:

IMG_0442.thumb.jpg.1ce9ded897bbcd4029f40defe761ebd0.jpg

Everything hanging out the left side in the bread-tie had to be painstakingly desoldered or snipped and insulated with heatshrink.

 

Edited by joethezombie

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I imagine that would be convection cooling with the supply positioned horizontally. I didn't see any specs about enclosures or applications?

 

edit: copy paste doesn't work: It needs to be in a bigger box.

 

360x360.thumb.JPG.c937606d23dfcd5c9f52fcc552f5ab38.JPG

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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