Reconnecting properly, I get a blank screen; no pointer, no question mark, just a lit screen. If I disconnect the drive, the IIfx will boot from a floppy, but not if the drive is connected.

The drive does not spin up or make any sound whatsoever. Neither does the computer.

Darn! Sometimes the biggest danger to one's computer is oneself!

Any advice?

/Mr Lynn

The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

On my Packard Hell They didn't put anything on the board to show how the cables should be plugged in but it hasn't killed any of my HDDs.

Nick

-------------------------
DJ Corps
"Bass is Good"

The fact that the IIfx won't even show a flashing question mark with the drive connected leads me to think that there's some kind of electronics (not mechanical) problem.

I guess I could try a different ribbon, in hopes that it's just a cable problem. . . .

/Mr Lynn

The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

/Mr Lynn

When you removed the SCSI cable from the drive did you by chance loosen the cable where it connects to the motherboard?

Kami

Kami-- Did you solve the problem, or was your drive killed? I have been plugging and unplugging at the motherboard side, BTW.

/Mr Lynn

/Mr L

quote:

---

Update: using the new ribbon cable didn't help.

---

(The LaCie has a fan that groans and moans--at least I hope it's the fan, and not the drive [I have another one whose drive died, in which I installed a 4.3G drive--use it for backup of my G3 data]--but the drive seems to work all right.)

In fact, I switched to OS 7.6.1, which I had on the Q-Drive, and that works! With all the RAM (now 70MB--almost nine times as much as the old IIfx has ever seen!) it boots fast. No more need for RAMDoubler!

But it looks like I'll need to find a replacement for the big ol' internal drive, maybe a one or two gig. Unless there's some way to resurrect it--it's a shame to have killed it by my own incompetence, after good service all these years.

Is there any limit to the size of internal drive that the IIfx can support?

/Mr Lynn

quote:

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I have an old LaCie 1G Q-Drive, which I have just connected and which boots the IIfx fine. So I assume this means the buss and controller are OK--right?

But it looks like I'll need to find a replacement for the big ol' internal drive, maybe a one or two gig. Unless there's some way to resurrect it--

Is there any limit to the size of internal drive that the IIfx can support?

---

quote:

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Why not replace the G3's drive with a bigger faster ATA drive and use the old one as an internal backup drive and install either the 1 Gig or the 4.3 Gig mechanism in the fx?

---

The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

My IIfx has a 1 gig and a 750 MB drive installed on the platform. I changed the SCSI cable to a 2 headed one so that I had 2 drives available. The platform and the hard drive tray has brass stand offs to mount the drives on. All of the IIfx's that I have seen have had the single hard drive (160 or 250 MB) installed and look slightly different than my drive tray.

Kami

http://homepage.mac.com/jwt1863/.Pictures/HACKS/IIfxIntCD/IIfxIntCDunder.jpg

jt

I've got an Apple CD 300 external (the one with the cassette) that still works, so no need to build in a CD drive.

/Mr Lynn

quote:

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jt, is that the HD underneath the tray? I'd have trouble doing that, as those 16MB modules I got from Cinemafia are humongous! Where did you put the floppy drive?

---

They're still in there, one may come out for a ZIP drive, but I haven't decided . . . I have a pair of the boat-anchor external CDs for troubleshooting, but an internal for the fx seemed like the thing to do!
Internal CD-ROM in IIfx Hack?

jt

Cinemafia was kind enough to sell me a 1.2G hard drive, which arrived last week.

The drive works. But not in the IIfx. Doesn't even spin up.

I checked the drive in our IIci that hasn't been touched in four years--and it started right up! (what a great machine!)

So assuming the cables are OK, and I believe they are, it looks to me as if the SCSI port on the IIfx motherboard is bad.

Am I right? And if so, is there any solution short of replacing the board?

/Mr Lynn

Kami

jt

quote:

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Have you tested the voltages on the HDD Power cable and the mobo connector? The drive should spin up as long as it is getting power, whether the mobo is alive or the entire thing is as dead as a doornail!

---

The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

When I fried my Q605s SCSI, I got the flashing ? floppy, but I knew what had transpired to cause it.

Conversely, a healthy logic board with nothing connected to any SCSI port and nothing in any floppy drive should always give the flashing ? floppy.

Sometimes, and IIRC this is kinda rare, the logic board has 2 separate SCSI channels via 2 separate SCSI chips (I believe my (blasphemous)7500 does this). That mobo could STILL get locked up by a busy signal (sent to the CPU by a fried SCSI chip) that never goes away.... because the chip is cooked.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ganswijk/chipdir/f/scsi.htm can lead you to some chips which can repair the logic boards.

quote:

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Power connected, no data cable connected anywhere should get the hard disk to spin up, unless it is any of a dozen models of IBM SCSI drives with a certain jumper configuration; those will delay spin up until SCSI commands tell it to spin. Don't know about Seagates/Apples/Quantums.

---

The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

quote:

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Otherwise, mobo is fine: runs from an external drive with no problem.

---

quote:

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You must not be getting power to the internal drive power socket, is there a fuse somewhere on the mobo or inside the PSU to limit the current to the internal drives? maybe test the new drive in the external case?

---

Edited by - mrlynn on 16 Jan 2003 07:08:16

quote:

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Otherwise, mobo is fine: runs from an external drive with no problem.

---

I tested the drive from cinemafia in the IIci. It works. So the drive is not the problem. I thought you were suggesting testing it in the external enclosure. Doesn't seem necessary, since it works in the IIci.

I doubt if the filter would help; as I read the manual description (which admittedly is ambiguous), it's only necessary for drives made before 1990.

/Mr Lynn

http://www.lowendmac.com/macinschool/2k0410.html

IIRC, the IIfx has a single SCSI controller. The fact that it boots with an external SCSI disks suggests that the SCSI chip is OK. The fact that nothing works when any drive is plugged in to the internal SCSI connection suggests that something bad has happened there.

To me, the no-boot, no-sound, no-spin, no-pointer condition suggests a power problem. So, another interesting possibility is that the PSU is overloaded. If you go back to a low RAM config, does it boot from the old Seagate HD? Maybe the PSU can't handle all of the RAM and an internal HD, but can boot off an external HD because that HD has its own power supply.

Best wishes on for a fixed fx,

G4From128k

quote:

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To me, the no-boot, no-sound, no-spin, no-pointer condition suggests a power problem. So, another interesting possibility is that the PSU is overloaded. If you go back to a low RAM config, does it boot from the old Seagate HD? Maybe the PSU can't handle all of the RAM and an internal HD, but can boot off an external HD because that HD has its own power supply.

---

I pulled out the humongous 16MB RAM modules, left in the four recently-acquired 4MB RAM sticks, plugged in the old drive, and started. No drive. Checked with Silverlining to make sure it wasn't secretly running: nope. Removed old drive and plugged in new one: no drive. Checked again.

Conclusion: the 16MB modules are not the culprit. They do make the IIfx slow to present a bright screen on bootup, but they do not, it would seem, draw so much current that the machine can't run the internal SCSI drive.

The fuse hypothesis still sounds plausible to me. Does anyone know if the IIfx has the SCSI power fused, and if so, is the fuse on the motherboard or in the power supply? And if one or the other, where?

The mystery continues. . . .

/Mr Lynn

I wonder if a bad solder joint or crack in the board is cause. Who knows what might happen if only 3 out of the 4 power pins where carrying power.

This has a article mentioning SCSI fuses:

http://www.nehaia.dk/cm_archives/1997/07/970704.html

Any chance that those new 4 MB SIMMs are the culprit? I don't see how, but...

Anyhoo, I've reached my wits end (it was a short trip)

I do hope you find a fix for the problem.

G4From128k

jt

IF I knew how. That would tell us whether the drive is getting power.

Can anyone issue some instructions?

/Mr Lynn

quote:

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I think it is now well past the time for you to get yourself a multimeter at crap shack and spend some quality time with the instruction booklet!

---

The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

quote:

---

As I said, I have the multimeter--but number one son lost the instruction booklet a few years ago. Do you know anything about those four wires?

---

There are four wires in the power cable to the internal HD. The two black ones are grounds. The yellow (or orange) should be 12 volts; the red should be 5 volts (thanks to S. Pupp over on the DealMac Forum for that; he also suggested resetting the motherboard by removing the PRAM batteries and disconnecting the power supply).

Report to date:

Resetting the motherboard didn't help.

The internal HD power supply is active.

The cables are fine.

Unlikely as it seems, a good HD plugged in to a good power supply in the IIfx does not spin up. But, as I said
before, the external SCSI drive works fine.

Is it possible that a problem with the internal SCSI data port could prevent a drive from spinning up, and not
affect the external SCSI port? Could they have separate controllers?

I'm out of my depth here. But it would appear that the only solutions are either a replacement motherboard, or a
NuBus SCSI card--or just to run the IIfx from the external. All perfectly viable options, but still, it would be
nice to know exactly what the problem is. ]:-(

/Mr Lynn

Ram: Lotsa ram = looooong time to boot - my Q950 demonstrated that to me.

DRIVEs power connection (visit http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/specs/scsi/st251n.html)

PS: Sorry for the delay, I'm a Luzr.

To try to salvage the drives, I put them in an old 486 (on separate occasions) that had a bootable SCSI controller. I low-level formatted one of them and did a regular format on the other. In both cases, they held the format under DOS and Windows.

Afterwards I was able to format them on a Mac. They were usable and bootable. I hope this is helpful to anyone with similar problems.

Clancychem

Finally got around to testing the original IIfx drive in the IIci: works fine!

So there is something wrong that prevents that drive from working in the IIfx. Same goes for the 1G that I also tried.

Since the drive is getting power, I assume it must be the motherboard. But shouldn't the drive spin up if it's getting power, EVEN IF the mobo can't see it?

A corresondent over on DealMac suggests that maybe the power supply is adequate to run the drive but not to start it up. Does that sound likely to anyone here? Testing would require more sophistication (and time) than I have.

Well, Cinemo is sending me his IIfx chassis (with mobo and PSU), so that'll give me some part-swapping capability. Course I'll have to watch out for the SAF as I bring another old Mac into the house . . .

/Mr Lynn

PS Dunbar: The IIfx requires a special (black) terminator at the end of any external SCSI chain. It also requires a terminator between the ribbon cable and the internal hard drive IF the drive is not internally terminated, which as far as I can determine means made before 1990. My 160MB original drive has no such terminator, and never needed one.

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