a) Real leeches - these kind are just greedy bastards who are determined to download the whole internet. They already have more stuff than you can imagine, and they want to share none of it.

b) Beginners - These are people who are relatively new to whatever the community collects, and therefore, they have nothing to offer yet.

c) People who would normally share, but can't, due to restrictions on their internet connection.

I'm not sure which group annoys you guys, but personally, I believe that group a) is mainly the one that annoys me the most. I don't mind helping out anyone who is a n00b or has restricted internet, wherever possible. Anyway, I was just wondering what you guys thought of this topic.

But of the more computer-related leeches, I agree that group a is the worst. I also think group c could do more. Even if they don't have the bandwidth/setup to share files, they can share knowledge and encouragement on fora like this one. As for group b, I give them a grace period during which they can either return the favor or fall into group c or a.

G4From128k

THnsd;ksndvg
"is it any wonder why this happened?!"

10000Th poster and 1000Th AND 1500Th topic creator in lounge.

I have no tolerance for ratio sites or people who want to trade 1 for 1. If you dont like to share then dont bother me I have no time for you. At some points I had the newest stuff while other times other people did. The people who have eveything spend alot of time to get those connections, while the casual user didnt.

Not all of us are blessed with having a broadband internet connection. Some of us "leech" because it demands to much of our internet connection to upload and download at the same time. I HATE IT when people ban me, because they say I'm just leeching, and not letting people download from me. Well let me tell you this; Do you guys really want to download from a person on modem?! Honestly, I just want a few files and even though it is going to take 6 hours I dont want it to have to take 2 days, because some little punk 13 year old wants to download a cd image from me. I get so pissed when people talk about us "underprivilaged" like that....

Really the last catagory should be givin your pitty, and sympathy, not your anger.

--------------------
Christophillis- Portable Squadren Commander
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Total 68k Macs Liberated: 6.02x10^23
Or just 6

quote:

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I have to say this:

Not all of us are blessed with having a broadband internet connection. Some of us "leech" because it demands to much of our internet connection to upload and download at the same time. I HATE IT when people ban me, because they say I'm just leeching, and not letting people download from me. Well let me tell you this; Do you guys really want to download from a person on modem?! Honestly, I just want a few files and even though it is going to take 6 hours I dont want it to have to take 2 days, because some little punk 13 year old wants to download a cd image from me. I get so pissed when people talk about us "underprivilaged" like that....

Really the last catagory should be givin your pitty, and sympathy, not your anger.

---

Other than that, I would consider myself a TypeC who gives back to the community in knowlege, and with my great wit and usually easygoing sense of humor. (IMHO)

If/when I will run a server, I'd like people to upload, but I'm not going to make people pay to download, or upload 1:1, because what happens, is everyone wants to upload the *STUPID* stuff like compressed system 7.1 disc images, that took longer th prepare than to upload... then download uber-rare and cool stuff like A/UX and "The Apple Student Resource Set" (I have one of those CDs, it's pretty nifty, and one day I'll have to upload it somewhere along with an image of what the CD looks like.)

Sometimes lately, I've been getting in the habit of downloading overnight. If someone can download overnight, than they can *PROBABLY* upload overnight as well.

That having been said, I'll try to make a toast image (or something) of my ASRS CD, along with an image (because I know that *I* like to know what the cd actually looks like...)

jt �.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF

But the biggest problem I had when I was running a hotline server; was that almost noone would read the news or the agreement, and so they kept uploading OS X stuff [which I can't really make any use of…]

anyways… I have to get ready to try and sell the 9500 now…

example: MLAgazine.

with the chat, the news and mesasgeboards, it seems to be a good "groupware" solution...

Lines In Uploads Log: 7349
Lines In Downloads Log: 96896
Total Users Count: 1462
Total Nicknames Count: 1462
Total Upload Count: 5135
Total Download Count: 85423
Overall Leech Rating: 93.99%

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I have to say this:

Not all of us are blessed with having a broadband internet connection. Some of us "leech" because it demands to much of our internet connection to upload and download at the same time. I HATE IT when people ban me, because they say I'm just leeching, and not letting people download from me. Well let me tell you this; Do you guys really want to download from a person on modem?! Honestly, I just want a few files and even though it is going to take 6 hours I dont want it to have to take 2 days, because some little punk 13 year old wants to download a cd image from me. I get so pissed when people talk about us "underprivilaged" like that....

Really the last catagory should be givin your pitty, and sympathy, not your anger.

---

Give me a break, I would say 85% of people in the US have access to either a cable modem or DSL if they can come up with $35 to $50 a month. Your not some phillipine kid living in the jungle. If your on AOL thats $20 a month right there. If your trading 68k apps thats just a few floppies worth of data , compressed even. I remember calling to canada on a 28k modem to download doom2 a month before it made it to the stores and then I shared it with all my friends. You can always offer to send a few cd's worth of data via the postoffice, thats cheap and its not out of your way. Its alot easier to make excuses and spend all their time leaching then to offer anything in return. Besides people on dialup dont offer ISO's in the first place.

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I think that those servers that require you to have stuff shared, or upload "1 for 1" are stupid.

Another point, is that when one of us dialup users tries to upload something, at least three other 'fast' internet users could have uploaded whatever it is, at least 7 times for each of them...

So for every 21 ISOs that broadband users upload, dialup users *MIGHT* contribute one...

and that's simply because of the slower connections we have. Those of us with single phone lines have it even worse. This is because we have few short hours each day to be online, and to upload and download.

Those few hours are extremely precious, and I don't, for one, want to spend them uploading my common-as-dirt 68k and PowerPC software that could just as easily be done without (like, who needs the Apple Student Resource Set anyway??), or gotten elsewhere. (why make me upload system 7.5, when you can download the whole CD, or the floppies straight from apple??)

In addition to the concept of only being on the internet a few hours during the day, we have the thought that, we can't leave it go on overnight for a few different reasons.
Mine are as follows.
My mom works at the Arizona Ford Proving ground. and each day, they might call a certain few people and give them a thing called a furlough. A furlough is when they basically tell you to stay home, Ford does them in increments on one day(in the past however, the Cessna company has been known to furlough thousands of people at a time, for 6 months...)
Therefore, anywhere between the hours of 4 and 6am, I need to be offline.
The fact that I get up at 5-5:30 means that I'm not there at 4 to disconnect.
It follows, then, that I don't leave my computer going overnight, because I won't be able to get it off in time for mom's furloughcall, should it decide to come....
(as a sidenote, we only have one phone line.)

As a broadband user, you may be able to download the world, and still (with ease) upload the moon, and run a server, and still browse the forum and your eMail easily...
But us here on dialup, have problems with JUST the forum and JUST the eMail let alone combining tasks.

The one-file leecher is not a very big problem. They typically come onto a server for the sole purpose of downloading a single file. Most of the time, you'd never see this person back again. This represents about 50% of the leechers out there.

The repeat-visit leecher will come back, day after day, downloading different files. Although they are at least courteous enough to not hog the bandwidth, they don't contribute back to the server. These represent about 20% of the leechers.

The multi-download leecher is the malicious type that everyone hates. They pop onto the server, and begin to download as many files as possible simultaneously. They tend to take all the download spots up, and use all the bandwidth up, starving the other users. These are the most often banned, and represent about 30% of the leechers.

I follow a simple philosophy: share the wealth, but don't require it. If I have the bandwidth available to share, I will. I don't expect others to share, even though I'd want them too.

And after a server becomes a bit old,and none of what you have is wanted, the no leeching policies become hard to cope with...

A server is there, basically for the purpose of providing a repository (for one of many different things)

in the case you're talking about here, it's files *large* files...

and there is only so many large files out on the internet, so once it's collected so many, it's main purpose becomes to let people download the files...

unless the owner is an egotistical weirdo...

Tonight your Nightcrawler is ruminating on friendship. I say a friend for life is a leech, someone who bleeds you. There is no real or lasting friendship, and no one is to be trusted. Who will challenge me on this. Who does not believe that all friendships must sour, slowly, imperceptably, commenada les mains de la cloche. And in the end it's not the big lie that turns us into mortal enemies, but the little white lies that drive the wedges between us, poison our loyalty and blight our trust. Do you not agree? Let's discuss it then, friends.

Trophy Girl

They say no two persons are alike. Never is that more true than when it comes to our desires. Some cherish what others abhor. One man's precious cargo is another man's poison. Some prize what others revile. Prize what you will, prize what you can, but always remember, even he who dies with the most prizes still dies.

*****----------*****

Almost everyone here knows my stand on leeches. Although there are others in the list, some leeches have a complacent lazy attitude not willing to take the effort to do something that is required. For example, in a Forum I moderate, many complain that they can't share back because thier ISP limits them. However, these same people still download over 600MB CD images over and over, and once they have downloadd thier Quota they then say that they can't give back. Of course, this is a poor excuse because Balance is needed. If you download 600MB, then at least share 600MB. Don't download like gung ho then complain when your tokens are all used up.

One time leechers I have no problem with, since they usually are very thankfull, since they are looking for one thing to save thier day, and I find a good majority of them will post in a message board and say a quick thanks for saving thier day.

Myself, I have access to over 200GB worth of abandonware for over 20 Platforms including a large collection of text files from all the old plays, Socrates etc (most are freely available online but it's just the collection that counts) and people know this and I typically get lots of e-mails of people who expect me to share them. Like I get e-mails that say: "I know you have Quadra ROM. Send to me." or... "You have Rhpasody DR1 Intel. How about sharing??" or "I got Rhapsody I need Boot Disks. I know you have them. Send them to here..." and the like.

So most of these folks expect me to drop everything and hand it over.

Anyways, there is no sure solution because often Leeches don't just apply to computer technology, it bleeds into thier social life and usualy people like that expect society in general to give them things. They have an unreal expectation that society "owes" them something for nothing.

It's more a social failure resulting in a lack of ability to share and work for something. They want the free ride even if they have the cash or time to do something. It's like that children's story about the Hen (I Think) that was baking and during various steps in the baking asked some of the other animals to help and they didn't. And so at the end, the Hen didn't let them eat what had been made because they didn't help.

Black magic, voodoo, bombers in the sky. People kill people, and I don't know why.

Back to typing normally now, I do believe that leeching is bad, but it's not just that if you download a meg, you should uplod a meg, because not everyone has any random 300gb hard drive laying around that they can just leave online and let it fill up...

Giving back in words, in thanks, in appreciation, in knowlege and in being present, IMHO, is good enough.

Sometimes, the matter of leeching, is just the thought that I (or someone) doesn't have something to upload (which is not actually my case...)

Then again, it's also a matter of *what* you can upload...

I have written alot in my life, and I've started doing some page layout experiments, and uploading stuff like that, while it's not software, it's something that can be enjoyed...

:hmm...:

Nick

quote:

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quote:

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quote:

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I have to say this:

Not all of us are blessed with having a broadband internet connection. Some of us "leech" because it demands to much of our internet connection to upload and download at the same time. I HATE IT when people ban me, because they say I'm just leeching, and not letting people download from me. Well let me tell you this; Do you guys really want to download from a person on modem?! Honestly, I just want a few files and even though it is going to take 6 hours I dont want it to have to take 2 days, because some little punk 13 year old wants to download a cd image from me. I get so pissed when people talk about us "underprivilaged" like that....

Really the last catagory should be givin your pitty, and sympathy, not your anger.

---

Give me a break, I would say 85% of people in the US have access to either a cable modem or DSL if they can come up with $35 to $50 a month. Your not some phillipine kid living in the jungle. If your on AOL thats $20 a month right there. If your trading 68k apps thats just a few floppies worth of data , compressed even. I remember calling to canada on a 28k modem to download doom2 a month before it made it to the stores and then I shared it with all my friends. You can always offer to send a few cd's worth of data via the postoffice, thats cheap and its not out of your way. Its alot easier to make excuses and spend all their time leaching then to offer anything in return. Besides people on dialup dont offer ISO's in the first place.

---

No Unknown you give ME a break. I for one still live with my parents because I am in High School. My parents do not want to spend 32.95-78.95 for Charter Internet Pipeline so I am stuck on our local Piece of shit dial up connection. It is not my decision to have modem, but I use what is avalible to me. I really dont have time it takes to contact the owner of one server that happens to have one file I want and find out where they live so I can send them a cd with apps on it just to download a file. Perhaps you do but I dont.

Oh and fyi, I know a number of people who have ISO's on dial up just to meet the minimum shared requirements to log on to certian servers.

--------------------
Christophillis- Portable Squadren Commander
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Total 68k Macs Liberated: 6.02x10^23
Or just 6

Number One, you have the helm. I'll be in my ready room.

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Im sorry your on dialup and have all the time in the world to find a file you need and d/l it but dont have the time to send a file somebody else might need. Your part of the gimme gimme generation that doesnt help out others because they have 101 excuses why they dont have to.

Nobody owes you shit. The files you d/l are there because others like to share, the internet is not your god given playhouse. I could care less about others on dialup and their ISO's I was talking about YOU!

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-------------------------
Llama-X Dev Team
·····Liberations·····
·A2:2
·68k: 7
·Contraband(PPC):1
·They-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named(x86): 7
·Other Systems:2

Anyhue. I will let a 56k user download the bejezus out of me, becuase they CAN only download so slow. I plan on throttling, and I would do so at around 14-20k if I did. This gives everyone aboot the same access and such.

To me, no one should get upset at 56k users for leeching, they simply take no room at all so it matters little. The high speed leeches that can suck file after file are the ones that get me ticked.

Gratitude is another thing. I'll let you walke off with tons of files if i just get a little, sincere thanks. It makes the job of maintaining (with the MLA i had to do maintenence regularly at least) and keeping it up worth my time. I'm not bent on having all the files in the world, I did it to keep people happy, and come into possesion of some cool stuff along the way.

~The Penguin

Sometimes we do need that thing to save our day (and hopefully we get a few weeks' notice 'yeah')

Unknown, obviously you are a firm supporter of the one-for-one trading system?

This means that y'all are *SO* supportive of illegally aquiring software, that it is somewhat disgusting to even read this thread...

In my opinion, if you download something, you shouldn't have to upload to make up for it. But rather, sharing of information, or being present (like in a chat, forum, messageboard and news on an HL server...) should at least show appreciation.
When Apple *VERY GRACIOUSLY* lets you leech from their servers (or the server/hosting that they pay for...) do they make you upload?

Besides Unknown, does it really affect you if Chris doesn't upload stuff?

Here's another kind of leech, I think we're on like, EA or something...

Type EA) Those that find a file, use it, and are stupid enough to delete it, then they need to find it again, to download it again.

As far as sharing stuff goes, I like some of what Cory's said. On P2P services, there's no use in the little dial-up guy (like me) sharing something that's really common and wasting his bandwidth. However, if there are some particularly rare things that not everyone has, I don't mind sharing them. For example, I have some hard-to-find jazz recordings on my machine that aren't available on CD that took me months to find. I don't mind sharing them, because I know that whoever downloads them isn't doing so because they heard some song on the radio but because they care about the music. There's no point in me sharing stuff that anyone can download (OR BUY!) from another source. Even if I do share it, it's not really helping anyone else too much. Almost all of the music on my machine is stuff I ripped myself off of the original CDs, so the guy who downloads it from me probably won't get a whole song without me disconnecting, and he won't be able to get the rest of the file from another source.

On Hotline servers, I'll upload if I have something to contribute. I can't stand servers that require uploads of certain software in order to download. People like me, who don't steal excessive amounts of software just for the hell of it, don't have any way to access these servers then.

Other than the fact that I'm on dialup... that's MY copy of panther, I spend MY $130 on it, and if someone else wants it, then can go spend their own money, because if I were to upload it somewhere, that's almost like giving 100s of people a literally completely free ride to the latest version of the OS....

quote:

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http://cory5412.50free.net/pleaseforgive.pdf

Sometimes we do need that thing to save our day (and hopefully we get a few weeks' notice 'yeah')

Unknown, obviously you are a firm supporter of the one-for-one trading system?

This means that y'all are *SO* supportive of illegally aquiring software, that it is somewhat disgusting to even read this thread...

In my opinion, if you download something, you shouldn't have to upload to make up for it. But rather, sharing of information, or being present (like in a chat, forum, messageboard and news on an HL server...) should at least show appreciation.
When Apple *VERY GRACIOUSLY* lets you leech from their servers (or the server/hosting that they pay for...) do they make you upload?

Besides Unknown, does it really affect you if Chris doesn't upload stuff?

Here's another kind of leech, I think we're on like, EA or something...

Type EA) Those that find a file, use it, and are stupid enough to delete it, then they need to find it again, to download it again.

Official 68k videographer
Official MLA TourGuide
Editor of the MLAgazine
"I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life"

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Another thing that comes to my mind, especially with something like my recently purchased copy of panther...

Other than the fact that I'm on dialup... that's MY copy of panther, I spend MY $130 on it, and if someone else wants it, then can go spend their own money, because if I were to upload it somewhere, that's almost like giving 100s of people a literally completely free ride to the latest version of the OS....

Official 68k videographer
Official MLA TourGuide
Editor of the MLAgazine
"I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life"

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Im sorry your on dialup and have all the time in the world to find a file you need and d/l it but dont have the time to send a file somebody else might need. Your part of the gimme gimme generation that doesnt help out others because they have 101 excuses why they dont have to.

Nobody owes you shit. The files you d/l are there because others like to share, the internet is not your god given playhouse. I could care less about others on dialup and their ISO's I was talking about YOU!

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Edited by - Christophillis on 02 Nov 2003 20:47:25

quote:

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quote:

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Im sorry your on dialup and have all the time in the world to find a file you need and d/l it but dont have the time to send a file somebody else might need. Your part of the gimme gimme generation that doesnt help out others because they have 101 excuses why they dont have to.

Nobody owes you shit. The files you d/l are there because others like to share, the internet is not your god given playhouse. I could care less about others on dialup and their ISO's I was talking about YOU!

---

It takes me under 5 minutes to find a file, it in retrospect takes me 10-30 minutes of talking, then another 10 to burn a cd, 1 to package it up, then it will take me 15 minutes out of my way to ship it. So lets see 5 minutes vs at minimum 36 minutes plus the cost of shipping.

I never said that anyone owes me anything. I only said that we modem users should be given your sympathy and perhaps your patiance. And by the way when I am on applications like Direct Connect I have 19.5 gigs of ISO's that are shared to meet requirements for servers.

Im not really sure why you're so bitter about this subject, or my generation in general but I think this is as far as this little you vs me thing should go.

--------------------
Christophillis- Portable Squadren Commander
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Total 68k Macs Liberated: 6.02x10^23
Or just 6

Number One, you have the helm. I'll be in my ready room.

Edited by - Christophillis on 02 Nov 2003 20:47:25

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