I went to the Apple Store, amazingly, with less than half hour before closing, on the day after Panther was released, and they had like, 50 zillion copies of panhter installed!

Last night, I totally installed it, and I'm using it now. I would have to say, that I LOVE THIS!!!!

It's almost as though this is the way computers (or at least Mac OS X) should have been from the start. I even find that typing this message is now easier with my TiBook.

Personally, I love the new slash that Apple's added to all it's logos (just in case you hadn't noticed ) and I think that the way the menus are organized is fantastic.

The new "Internet Connect" application is fantasmical, I love the new way that the speed indicators work.

Exposé.
Let me just say, that this will be the largest waste of time for me, EVER. Just pushing three buttons!
AND I LOVE IT!!!!
I've already used it to see *all* of my many AIM conversations (exactly one at this hour...) and it's already wasted probably 5 minutes

My trip to Las Vegas last night, was fantastic, needless to say. We were able to make it to the store with no major problems, and buy Panther. The mall was completely relaxing. They were playing smooth jazz, practically noone was there, and it was easy to find the way around. The parentals even agreed to sticking around (in the mall) for awhile. Sadly, I didn't have the sense to stay *in* the apple store, but hey! I got a bag, and like, 5 panther dogtags

We drove around LV some more, ate at a McDonalds, and almost stayed at this hotel/casino, IIIRC, it was "Sam's Town."

We then made our way home, and I installed panther

quote:

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panther dogtags

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Now that seems ironic…
But I wish I had some!

If I open my window all the bugs will get in…That's just one more reason to use a Mac!
Mac Portable
LC ||
SE/30
||si
||ci
Quadras: 660av, 950
PMs: 6100/G3/233, 6214CD, 5400/120, 7100/80av, 9500/G3/300
PB 5300ce
SuperMac C600 180, 240

quote:

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Personally, I love the new slash that Apple's added to all it's logos (just in case you hadn't noticed )

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Mmm. Doesn't show up on Apple's website. What U mean slash?

The Lightning Stalker

Performa 631CD, 7.5.5
LC III Mail Server
Q610
Q650

6400/180 40/1.6G/512k L2/enet/video-in/TV
7600/120 '604/233, 80/1.2G & 4G, 9.2.2 (Main Mac)

Lady Smith Apples:
Apple IIc 5.25"
2 Apple IIe

Edited by - the lightning stalker on 27 Oct 2003 10:20:51

Jeremy

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." - Karl Marx

quote:

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Who said it costs $130? It will only cost me about 1 hour of downloading...

Jeremy

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." - Karl Marx

Covert Ops
68k Hacks General
Macs Liberated:26

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Don't you know it!

.

If you're downloading it, you're not taking the time, having the *experience* of going outside, and driving a bit, and walking around a mall, talking to some people, and then having that lightheaded feeling that you know, YOU bought some of your own software. (I paid for nearly all of Panther on my own)

THIS, is a BIG importance, when you're 15, jobless, and still nearly completely dependant upon your parents financially.

quote:

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As I recall, the images are too big to actually burn onto a CD, and for me, that'd be about a year's worth of connect time to download all those CD images, the XCODE image, and all included documentation (if that stuff is even available in PDF format)

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Actually you only need CD1 to install panther.

quote:

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If you're downloading it, you're not taking the time, having the *experience* of going outside, and driving a bit, and walking around a mall, talking to some people, and then having that lightheaded feeling that you know, YOU bought some of your own software. (I paid for nearly all of Panther on my own)

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Yes, but we don't have an apple store, and i'd rather be having a fun time with my friends , besides I don't have $170 to blow.

quote:

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THIS, is a BIG importance, when you're 15, jobless, and still nearly completely dependant upon your parents financially.

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.

Jeremy

As much as Panther is nice, from the reports that I have seen coming in (I'm a moderator on another Mac board) Panther still has a huge number of bugs to be ironed out, such as compatibility with exisiting OS X applications, Printing, Keyboard features and other things. Some Macintosh models are as of yet showing poor signs of support even though they are on Apple's list of supported machines. For example, some DP G4's and Cubes are having consistant Kernel Panicks no matter what.

So...if panther turns into another 10.2.8 fiasco, Apple is going to have a hard time convincing people to buy a product that I feel should still be in Beta for at least a few more months.

Not to mention 130 is steep for an OS. I can get Linux cheaper. (Even if I purchase it)

Oh well. Apple will learn one way.

Apple should have just given it away and charged for individual apps like DVD Player and stuff. Apple is always like Scrooge.

Still if I was young and poor I would have just waited for the next macos to come out and buy the older one cheap from somebody. Spending $130 on something that you really dont need (I assume you had a previous version of osx) is a good way to be broke for christmas.

As far as the OS being free, if a company spends millions to produce something they will either recoup the cost in every new machine they sell or in the other software you buy from them. Nothing is free people, it just varies on how you end up paying for it.

WIndows XP Pro costs $199, and that's the upgrade. a full-nonupgrade, non-OEM liscence is probably like, $400 ~ish.

And, Microsoft is still expecting that you pay $99 for WinME, $98 for Win 98 and another arm and a leg if you want Windows 2k.

That having been said, $130 is DIRT CHEAP for an OS, and for the same $199 that will only buy you one upgrade liscence of WInXP pro, you can get a single boxed copy of Panther, that will legally install on 5 computers.

Now compare that to Windows 98SE which came out in the middle of 1999 for $109 if you owned a microsoft OS even back to Windows 3.1 (way back when huh). Everything microsoft puts out to this day has a win98 version (explorer, media player, etc just like apple puts out its own apps)and you still get drivers and bugfixes (yea I know the weekly fixes) for that os even though its 2003 now.

So if you do the math the yearly cost for Microsfts OS are pretty low compared to the $129 a year for apples. And you dont have to upgrade the OS every year either just to stay current.

Maybe its just me but I think apple is doing some serious arm twisting to get people to upgrade OSX every year, stuff that you people would scream about if microsoft did it. I also have to ask what the major advantage to each version of OSX is besides a few small utils and the speed improvements (that should have been there during version 10.1) and of course the rush to get new updates of your old apps becasue the new OSX broke something.

I now have it installed on my G3 and my iMac G4 and both are rockin'. The only thing that it broke was my WACOM drive3rs so the mouse/tablet is a bit funny on my iMac at the moment.

I love it (almost as much as Cory ) and think it is a genuine improvement that is tangible and worth a little money out of the coffers.

Oh and Cory if you want to waste time using Expose hold down the Shift key and it does it in slow-mo - ala Steve Jobs's Keynote Demo

I still stand rpoudly on my record that I have never yet pirated and Operating System.

--
Mark Benson

FlatPackMacs http://fpm.gotdns.com

That shift key thing is cool!

Unknown, while apple is pushing up the minimum requirements for alot of it's newer programs, I can understand why it is doing so.

Here's my thinking.

First of all, I NEED to mention, that there is very few, of all the programs that apple makes, that even actually *require* Jaguar. and nearly all of them can be justified. Keynote, for example, uses Quartz extreme, which is simply not present in 10.1. iTunes, iPhoto, MS Office, Quicktime are all things that work in 10.1. AppleWorks, Classic Mode, photoshop 7 (IIRC) InDesign 2, are all things that still work in .1.

The things that come with jaguar, and that use newer libraries, *obviously* don't work with 10.1 and 10.0. (the same goes with panther and things not working on 10.0-2...)

Also, on your 5 year old win98 machine.
If i were to install 98 on one of my machines today, not only would I need to *download* FIVE years worth of patches and silly little upgrades, but I would need to download them EVERY TIME I needed them. Because IIRC, the way most of those patches work, is that they're given in MS's version of Software Up-To-Date ~ish thingy. Which means that you could easily be downloading gigabytes of patches and upgrades for each computer you want to install 98 on.

In addition, WinME/2K is very quickly becoming the low-end of the supported-chain. (As you can see, NT4 and 95 are all but gone) that's because of MS' new policy not to worry about (or support) anything older than 5 years. *(or it may have been 5 "versions" (tha'd be from 95>NT4>98>ME>2k>XP etc etc
As you can see, NT4 is the next to go.

Oh, and by yearly and costs for OS upgrades, and the such, I'm sure we were talking about using the latest version, because it's is extremely unfair to try to compare the costs of running '98 as your main 'system on an ancient dinosaur-PC, to running Panther as your main system on a mac, that ranges anywhere from dinosaur (iMac 233, lowest end that cna run panther) to brand new (G5, overkill for nearly anything)

That having been said, is there some freakishly fiendish way in which you might plan on making every of the newest applications and cool features work on 98? and making it run on some of today's newest hardware....

You'd need to upgrade to 2k/XP in order to really do that. There's $400 down the drain.

I just reformatted this PC from WinME this morning to my old version of Win2k and via a few downloads over the net I have everything patched and up to date (service pack 4) in a little over 20 minutes and 4 reboots. The downloads plus install probably were faster then you installing a clean OSX 10.3. WinME can still run on the latest parts made while nothing apple makes will boot OS 9.1 or earlier. The indivual patches can be downloaded seperatly and saved if your updating multiple machines.

While MS might not support windows 3.11 from a liveupdate like the newer OS they do have all the patches, information, fixes on their website. I downloaded tcp/ip for windows 3.1 a month ago and that OS is over a decade old and "not supported".

All I was trying to say is that apple is making you buy a new OS every year and making sure that a few older systems cant even install it every time. I can load the newest Xp on an old pentium 1 machine and run it. XP will run with accelerated video unlike the oldest powermac that OSX loads on. You are going to be on a shorter upgrade cycle then even the wintel platform has.

I was then mentioning that Apple adds a whole-freakin-snotload of new things to each ".1" upgrade of their OS. Each one is almost as big as the difference between Win98 and WinME, or the diff between Win2k and WinXP...

Do you run 2k legally? if you do, you *should* know that unless you buy OEM, or get it with a computer, it costs the same arm and a leg as WinXP does.

Microsoft *wants* you to buy a new OS every year, but they only have the ability to release one every few years.

Remember, it is apple's business to make and sell computers, and software for those computers.

If OSX ran on a 6100, noone would go out and buy a G5, because that'd mean that OSX would run decently on a 604 machine, and it'd be an absolute screamer on the original iMac. Apple would be in a death hold, because people are successfully running it's newest OS on 9 year old machines (6100s are from 1994)

One of the reasons you can run any PC os on any PC, is because of the fact that the X86 architechture is much more unified than the mac architechture has traditionally been.

Lucky, starting with the 500MHz iBooks (as I recall anyway, it might've been the original iBooks though) we get something called "UMA" that's Unified Macintosh Architechture.

Your iBook uses the same complete architechture as iMac, as her G4 as My PowerBook as their eMac....

Yes, apple eliminates a little bit from the low-end of the spectrum that can run OSX each time. It's called "keeping the OS running on computers that are fast enough to handle the OS, and computers for which the OS has drivers."

NEWS FLASH: Apple has just removed the ADB and other OldWorld related drivers from Mac OS X.

Like I said, nearly everything that'll run on panther and on jagyar, will run on the older OSX versions, and everything that'll run on those, will run on the new OSX versions. If your beigey is left out by panther, I deeply feel for you, but Jaguar and Puma/Cheetah are still around for your fun-glayvens.

If you are against software pirating, and you want panther, then you should be able to buy it.

(BTW, I didn't say that unsupported meant nonfunctional, just that if MS doesn't support it, it's probably rarely worth anyone's beanes to try to support it themselves.)
*(that having been said, I am a very much fan of MS windows, but owning it legally is EXTREMELY expensive.)

So why would apple remove a simple adb driver from the new OSX unless they wanted to make people buy new hardware? I am not saying apple shouldnt try to sell new hardware. I am saying that unlike the old days apple is crippling the newer software so you have to buy new hardware. people would say that of course apple products cost more, but they are usable for many more years then comparable intel machines. This is no longer the case. I think your investment will start to lose more value and quicker on the apple side then the PC side very soon, especially when g5 speeds ramp up and apple adds more bloat (features) that make you have to upgrade to a newer g5.

It doesnt really matter to me since I wont be buying anything made by apple that would run OSX anyway. I like the older hardware (reason I am on this forum) and dont see a need for a g5 when the intel machines I run offer more bang for the dollar and support a wider variety of hardware and software. I was just noting how apple in the last few years looked at the pc platform with its upgrade cycle and said to itself if they cant get more people to join the "think different" crowd they could gouge the ones that they do have for more money every year.

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