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AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 09 Feb 2002 :  13:43:24
Right now there are 17 Apple set top boxes on ebay. 17! I thought they were supposed to be rare or somthing. Some guy is selling them in groups of five. Of course I had to bid on a group of them. Hopefully five years from now I will be able to sell them for 100 dollars a piece like people do with 128k's right now.

AnubisTTP
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:15
alcoa
Full Member


Albania
543 Posts		 Posted - 09 Feb 2002 :  14:49:11
I'm confused, *for a change!* why would you feel average? If you're fittin' in here, that's probably the last thing anybody else would think about you, what makes you say that?

jt2 Trash80toG-4 aka jt

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AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 09 Feb 2002 :  17:19:39
The "I feel so average" was becuse I just bought a STB2 a few weeks ago and now there are dozens of them for sale on ebay.

AnubisTTP
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:15Go to Top of Page
alcoa
Full Member


Albania
543 Posts		 Posted - 09 Feb 2002 :  17:31:15
quote:

The "I feel so average" was becuse I just bought a STB2 a few weeks ago and now there are dozens of them for sale on ebay.

Think of yourself as a bleeding edge trendsetter! If you get a pile of 'em you can start Hack-MacTivo-Mania!

Cheer up, ain't NO WAY you're just yer average schmoe!

jtx

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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  11:03:35
STB's, unfortunately, are more of an Apple-junkie conversation piece than a real collectible. It would be cool to use as a case for a hack, though. LC 475/Quadra 605 Mobo's are pretty small, I wonder if you could fit two of them in there and have an 040 cluster...?

666th poster to the
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FireWire is fast
General, 4 star


USA
1559 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  13:02:55
As I recall, you can't use them as normal computers. However, hacking a real 475/605 motherboard into it would be rather cool...

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FireWire is fast
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  13:26:44
Hey, uh, Fire...that's what I just said...?

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Rexzilla
Junior Member



132 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  14:46:05
I saw those on ebay too....almost bidded on them myself. But a quick inventory of what I have and I changed my mind. I would like to know where they came from...has to be a story there somewhere.

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AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  17:23:49
I am sure I will be able to think of some use. They are supposed to be able to boot the Mac OS and they have an ethernet port, maybe I could run a webserver off of one and compete with that guy that is running a Mac Plus off of floppys for the nerdy-est Mac webserver. Of the three I will be getting, surely one of them will still work (already found buyers for the other two).Incedently I put a page at my website covering my experiences with the first set top box I got

http://www.angelfire.com/geek/vecon/syn/stb2.html

AnubisTTP
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:15Go to Top of Page
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  19:07:13
quote:

They are supposed to be able to boot the Mac OS and they have an ethernet port, maybe I could run a webserver off of one and compete with that guy that is running a Mac Plus off of floppys for the nerdy-est Mac webserver.

Do you know for a fact that they boot as standalone units? If I were going to put boxes in the field for that application, I'd make them the thinnest client possible and make sure they'd only boot when attached to my cable network. (thin-net? dunno how the cable tv nets are setup) maybe you can boot it and control it from a mac kinda like runnin another mac with timbuktu? Who was ceo at the time and who was the lead engineer on the project?

just typing out loud, clueless as usual!
jt

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FireWire is fast
General, 4 star


USA
1559 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  19:16:34
quote:

Hey, uh, Fire...that's what I just said...?


Bleh. My fried brain interpreted your post as meaning "Perhaps you could hack two set-top-box mobos" instead of "Perhaps you could hack a 475/605"

*goes off to hide in corner*

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FireWire is fast
General, 4 star
beholder of the Quadra/Centris Stick of Justice™Go to Top of Page
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  19:22:54
quote:

*goes off to hide in corner*

don' go hide, IT'S PLAYTIME! just act silly like yer doin' it on purpose! go on nit-picky raid, have fun!
jt
=8-}

or go hang out in unplugged, they're all crazy!

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amanda00
New Member


USA
71 Posts		 Posted - 13 Feb 2002 :  19:50:17
You're not really hiding, Fire man--I can see you!!

peace out,
<3 AMANDA <3Go to Top of Page
maclover5
LC Doctor/Hot Rodder


Australia
5830 Posts		 Posted - 14 Feb 2002 :  00:17:05
Actually, the STB can boot a normal Mac OS. A guy on AppleFritter, who goes by the name "Stefan" has a stb, and he hooked up an external hd and i have no idea what he did, but he turned it on, and the stb booted straight into System 7.1 off the external drive like a real 475!

Just thought you might like to know...

--------------------------

Pizzabox LCs RULE!!!!!!!

Warrior maclover5
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 14 Feb 2002 :  04:28:18
quote:

he hooked up an external hd and i have no idea what he did, but he turned it on, and the stb booted straight into System 7.1 off the external drive like a real 475!

Just thought you might like to know...


You tried it with 7.1 installation "for any macintosh" already? Swapped ROMS with contemporary mac? Can you get good shots of both sides of the ROM card? I'll bet that standard ROM IC's will map straight to the pins on the Rom board the same way a SIMM converter works. How many contacts are on the rom card? Is it exactly the same as a regular mac's rom slot?
jt

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AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 14 Feb 2002 :  07:07:45
Well according to the idiot light on the front of the unit it is not even getting past the power on self test correctly, which suggests to me that somthing is seriously screwed up hardware wise. I went through all of my Macs to see if I had any roms that were pin compatible with the one in the stb but none would fit.

Hmm. The motherboard in it has solder wells for a 20 pin floppy connector. If I solder a floppy connector to the motherboard and mount a floppy drive in it maybe I can boot it off of a floppy. I could rig the floppy drive so that the disk is inserted through the expansion card slot in the back. Then I could get a Smartmedia card and one of those Smartmedia floppy drive adapters and put a full version of the OS on it and it would all fit inside of the stb's case.

AnubisTTP
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:15Go to Top of Page
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 14 Feb 2002 :  07:27:32
quote:

Well according to the idiot light on the front of the unit it is not even getting past the power on self test correctly, which suggests to me that somthing is seriously screwed up hardware wise. I went through all of my Macs to see if I had any roms that were pin compatible with the one in the stb but none would fit.

Hmm. The motherboard in it has solder wells for a 20 pin floppy connector. If I solder a floppy connector to the motherboard and mount a floppy drive in it maybe I can boot it off of a floppy. I could rig the floppy drive so that the disk is inserted through the expansion card slot in the back. Then I could get a Smartmedia card and one of those Smartmedia floppy drive adapters and put a full version of the OS on it and it would all fit inside of the stb's case.


if the cable hookup is like thinnet coax b.s., maybe putting a terminator on connector will get you farther during the powerup sequence, those nets have got the terminator voodoo too.

your roms do not need to be pin compatible, just address compatible, pins make it easy or hard but adaptable, addressing is go/no-go, if somebody somewhere really booted one to mac os, regular roms transplant on a custom adapter card are a got-to hack for 68kMLR website content. got no hardware to look at here, but roms/adapting/emulating are right up my alley! piccies of rom card (closeup photo showing traces on both sides, optically enlarging photocopy process or hires scan might work) and precise definition of connectors involved would be a good start. methinks there's a mac in that box, just badly in need of a lobotomy reversal.
jt

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AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  07:31:05
I have heard that multiple people were able to get their units to boot without switching out the rom or doing anything hardware-wise. Hopefully once I get the ones I just bought, I will be able to determine wether the power on test failue is epidemic of all of the units.

I don't have a camera handy to take a picture of the actual rom but it has two 40 pin surface mount chips on the front and none on the back. The left chip is numbered 341s1062 LO 9430 and the right chip is numbered 341s1063 HI 9429. The rom card has 64 pins and I have been told that it is pin compatible with the rom on an LC 475, but I don't have an LC 475 yet to verify this. In addition there is a third rom chip attached to the motherboard next to the MPEG decoder chip. It appears to be a 28 pin EEPROM and has a sticker over the window labeled A3M (LS) C/SUM 519D8 95@@

AnubisTTP
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:15Go to Top of Page
danamania
Official 68k Muse


Australia
1193 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  07:41:54
quote:

I don't have a camera handy to take a picture of the actual rom but it has two 40 pin surface mount chips on the front and none on the back. The left chip is numbered 341s1062 LO 9430 and the right chip is numbered 341s1063 HI 9429. The rom card has 64 pins and I have been told that it is pin compatible with the rom on an LC 475, but I don't have an LC 475 yet to verify this. In addition there is a third rom chip attached to the motherboard next to the MPEG decoder chip. It appears to be a 28 pin EEPROM and has a sticker over the window labeled A3M (LS) C/SUM 519D8 95@@

I'll leave it to trash for the other stuff - but 475's don't have rom simms - 2 vram slots and one 72-pin ram simm. The vram is 68-pin, though.

be well :)
dana

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  08:21:26
quote:

I don't have a camera handy to take a picture of the actual rom but it has two 40 pin surface mount chips on the front and none on the back. The left chip is numbered 341s1062 LO 9430 and the right chip is numbered 341s1063 HI 9429. The rom card has 64 pins and I have been told that it is pin compatible with the rom on an LC 475, but I don't have an LC 475 yet to verify this.

Hi guys . . . errr . . . . .comrades! ;-)
The 475 should have a 64 pin simm socket between the vram simm sockets and the mobo ram, maniac, at least that's the way 475 is configured, are there just pads on your mobo? The roms on my 475 are74c4000 512k x 8 EPROMs (I think they're EEPROMs, but I'm not ready to argue with the referenc I found online yet) which is almost certainly configured as 16 bits wide in the address space. The pic of the green rom simm on the fritter site is fairly clear and looks like it's the same configuration and mapped straight to the memory bus in the fashion of a simm converter as I had expected..

it's playtime!
jt
=8-}

Edited by - Trash80toG-4 on 15 Feb 2002 08:26:53Go to Top of Page
danamania
Official 68k Muse


Australia
1193 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  08:33:35
quote:

The 475 should have a 64 pin simm socket between the vram simm sockets and the mobo ram, maniac, at least that's the way 475 is configured, are there just pads on your mobo?

Curious! out of the 7 of them I own (4 605's and 3 475's) not one has a simm socket - just the pads.

dana

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danamania
Official 68k Muse


Australia
1193 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  08:36:04
quote:

Curious! out of the 7 of them I own (4 605's and 3 475's) not one has a simm socket - just the pads.

talking to myself... :D

http://www.micromac.com/macpixpages/a_mac_lc_475.html

is what mine look like.

be well!
dana

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  08:53:59
quote:

quote:

Curious! out of the 7 of them I own (4 605's and 3 475's) not one has a simm socket - just the pads.

talking to myself... :D

http://www.micromac.com/macpixpages/a_mac_lc_475.html

is what mine look like.


talk 2 us! I talk 2 plastic fish when nobody's around. *almost fed em to cue cats the other night . . . . . freakin' nags! . . better behave! . . .QUIET!! . . . sheesh, I get no respect!* does mousie have much 2 say?

thanks for the link, love it! I had just suggested that we put mobo shots like that on this site not an hour ago, oh well.

I haven't pulled 605 out from under partrait to look, but 475 has the simm socket and I usually notice unpopulated pads (major pet peeve 4 me), I wonder if there is a general differentiation domestic/export wise?

u b well 2,
jt


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danamania
Official 68k Muse


Australia
1193 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  09:01:44
quote:

I haven't pulled 605 out from under partrait to look, but 475 has the simm socket and I usually notice unpopulated pads (major pet peeve 4 me), I wonder if there is a general differentiation domestic/export wise?

Is your portrait in pieces? a partrait could be a portrait piece

(picking on typos, yes... I'm slack!)

Anyhows - there are supposed to be another set of pads on 630's, which can take an extra 72 pin simm - as only the performa 631 ended up with that extra ram. I looked on my board, and the pads there are different in number to the existing 72 pin that's there. In a country where even 32 Mb simms like that are expensive, it'd be nice to get any help possible!.

Another general difference I know of, was the lack of named Quadra 630's here - we only got LC630's. I've heard 2 stories - one that you could order them with full FPU 040's for a little extra, and lately another... that all LC630's came with FPU 040's anyway!

little differences :D

Oh. imacs too. we got a different cache speed in the flower-power model range, for the midpriced one... I think.

dana

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  09:04:55
quote:

quote:

Curious! out of the 7 of them I own (4 605's and 3 475's) not one has a simm socket - just the pads.

talking to myself... :D

r u still talking 2 u'self?

I freakin' LOVE tha link! Does anybosy know why the lc had 4 ROMs on the mobo? IIe compatibility? very strange!

jt

*not gonna get much wor.......*


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danamania
Official 68k Muse


Australia
1193 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  09:14:51
quote:

r u still talking 2 u'self?

as always. or laughing with m'self

quote:

I freakin' LOVE tha link! Does anybosy know why the lc had 4 ROMs on the mobo? IIe compatibility? very strange!

They look very very much like the rom's that are in the mac II - 4 chips socketed - and which on my IIx were replaced by a rom simm socket... but with some of the old 4-chip socket printing still on the board :)

That would make sense, as the II and LC were some of the only 020 macs... and LowendMac.com describes an LC as a cut-down II.

dana

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  09:19:20
quote:

Is your portrait in pieces? a partrait could be a portrait piece

(picking on typos, yes... I'm slack!)

Anyhows - there are supposed to be another set of pads on 630's, which can take an extra 72 pin simm - as only the performa 631 ended up with that extra ram. I looked on my board, and the pads there are different in number to the existing 72 pin that's there. In a country where even 32 Mb simms like that are expensive, it'd be nice to get any help possible!.


portrait fine *electronically irritating! but fine*, just LNOTK syndrome again.

I always believed story about unpopulated RAM pads on 630 mobo until I compared boards after reading that 630 & DOSrev were fraternal not identical twins over on LEM. Checked for add'l pads for DOS hardware sockets and came up way short, then counted pads for second SIMM: unpopulated ROM pad theory immediately applied occam's razor to throat of second SIMM slot daydream *sigh*.

dejected just thinkin' about it,
jt :-(. . . . *mope, woe is m . . . . .*

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danamania
Official 68k Muse


Australia
1193 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  09:22:47
quote:

I always believed story about unpopulated RAM pads on 630 mobo until I compared boards after reading that 630 & DOSrev were fraternal not identical twins over on LEM. Checked for add'l pads for DOS hardware sockets and came up way short, then counted pads for second SIMM: unpopulated ROM pad theory immediately applied occam's razor to throat of second SIMM slot daydream *sigh*.

ahoi. Not to worry.

Tis all part of the (hrm. I hesitate to use the word 'charm' but I will) charm of the oldies. Stretching what IS possible within the limitations. 32Mb and a 40Mhz web server.. it works well.

dana

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  09:33:56
quote:

quote:

I always believed story about unpopulated RAM pads on 630 mobo until I compared boards after reading that 630 & DOSrev were fraternal not identical twins over on LEM. Checked for add'l pads for DOS hardware sockets and came up way short, then counted pads for second SIMM: unpopulated ROM pad theory immediately applied occam's razor to throat of second SIMM slot daydream *sigh*.

Stretching what IS possible within the limitations. 32Mb and a 40Mhz web server.. it works well.

was wondering if the timing issues might slow down your 10bt on that machine. take a look at the articles over at LEM. interesting stuff, lotsa really cute tricks on 630 '040's made for horrific design limitations on horse puckey ppc revs.

jt

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danamania
Official 68k Muse


Australia
1193 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  09:41:31
quote:

was wondering if the timing issues might slow down your 10bt on that machine. take a look at the articles over at LEM. interesting stuff, lotsa really cute tricks on 630 '040's made for horrific design limitations on horse puckey ppc revs.

I saw a lot of those - I don't -think- there are problems with ethernet. No practical ones, with the amount of file transferring and serving it does really - 10 visitors a day, and the odd web update. However, when I was installing the Linux NetATalk, I wanted to make sure it went as fast as the AppleShareIP server - which flies along nicely. I was getting near 1Mb/sec transfer rates, counted in a rough "those megs are going up like seconds" kind of way :). If there are some issues, they aren't biggies, least with the ethernet.

Now I'll have to look at the overclocking page to check that out for real!

Aha - video was the problem on some - check
http://homepage.mac.com/schrier/q630.html
for info on a lot of 630 overclocks and how they run (stats at the bottom :D

dana


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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  09:53:53
quote:

Now I'll have to look at the overclocking page to check that out for real!

Aha - video was the problem on some - check
http://homepage.mac.com/schrier/q630.html
for info on a lot of 630 overclocks and how they run (stats at the bottom :D


cool site, i checked it out right after you'd first mentioned your successfully 'clocked 63x. ethernet is aupposedly very picky about clock rates, as i recall all the system clocks on the 630 were linked, i'm surprised that you don't get more packet collisions and handshaking errors. wonder of might show up on a saturated net?
*startin' to wonder how much i ever really knew about i/o!*
ciao, maniacal comrade,
jt


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danamania
Official 68k Muse


Australia
1193 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  10:04:16
quote:

, i'm surprised that you don't get more packet collisions and handshaking errors. wonder of might show up on a saturated net?
*startin' to wonder how much i ever really knew about i/o!*

I remembered something vaguely - about ethernet on macs needing a 10Mhz clock from somewhere... I think on the 6200/6300's it's derived from the main bus speed somehow, but it would have to be created uniquely for the ethernet itself on the 630, as the only clock options are 20, 25, 33 and 40Mhz. jumping from 33 to 40 is a big chunk!.

Now you have me curious about looking for more info :D.

dana

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 15 Feb 2002 :  10:31:39
quote:

Now you have me curious about looking for more info :D.

BAAAAAAADDDDDDDD HABIT! but fun!
jt

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