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The Balance Of Judgement
Senior Member


Ivory Coast
1006 Posts
Posted - 09 Aug 2003 :  00:03:44
I am considering installing Linux on my 840Av. But I have a load of questions. Hopefully there are answers to them. The target install will result with Linux, Ethernet support with my Nubus Asante card, running php, apache, and ftp server.

Q: Is ADB hot swappable like it is in Mac OS? Because I don't have extra keyboards to use. Will it complain if it's booted without one? Can the bootloader/Mac OS be configured so that the machine boots directly into Linux and does not require a keyboard? (How does this affect logins, can a script be made?)

Q: I have 2 hard disks, a 250MB and a 700MB. I will be adding more later. Can I install Mac OS 7.6 on the 250MB and use the entire 700MB drive for my Linux partitions? Will it boot ok?

Q: Since I don't have a keyboard, can I use Apple's X Server for Classic Mac OS to connect to the 840Av and use it's terminal from my Powermac to input commands?

Q: What is the best kernel to use that for sure supports the Asante ethernet Nubus card? There is alot of talk about various Kernel versions, but which ones support ethernet the best? I am looking for support & stability for required elements, so even if there are new features in later kernels, if one for sure supports Asante Ethernet and works good, then that's the one I want to go with.

Q: I will soon have another hard disk I will be adding to the system. How easy is it and which commands do I use to get it running and formatted for Linux?

Q: Is 32MB of RAM a good amount for a Linux Apache/PHP FTP Server? The server will be doing a good amount of serving, and as such later I may upgrade the ram. Will Linux panick if all of a sudden the machine has more RAM than when last started? Or will it simply re-measure RAM and use what's available?

Q I don't have the proper adaptor for the onboard ethernet, how do I disable it in Linux or skip it's installation? It's the Nubus Asante I will be using.

Q: Is Linux compatible with the Power feature of the Q840 in Mac OS, where if it shuts down incorrectly that it will restart by itself? If not, is there a Linux compatible feature like this?

I am confused at the naming reference for SCSI drives in Linux. How would I reference my SCSI drive for Linux? Does it go by ID? Or by sequence of loading in Mac OS?

Also, are there any good step by step guides on installing it, preferably ones with pictures so I can see settings and dialogues?

Thanks.

Metrophage
New Member


Tonga
54 Posts
Posted - 09 Aug 2003 :  02:13:05
Not much knowledge from me, I just began to use Linux last week, with RedHat8 on an olde PII350. Finally stuph to do with that box!
I know it might sound weird compared to just running the OS that you're thinking ov… but spozedly if you were to use MachTen from inside MacOS, you could run php, ftp, and apache that way, with the ordinary Apple hardware compatability. I don't know how the performance is in comparison, but it was made for this sort ov thing.
As for the RAM, ethernet, ADB, etc- I never believe much ov anything until I've tried it myself. Go for it!

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The Balance Of Judgement
Senior Member


Ivory Coast
1006 Posts
Posted - 09 Aug 2003 :  10:06:23
MachTen is PPC, the Quadra 840Av is 68K. Even if I can get a hand on an older copy, it will have bugs and security issues and lost features a 68K cannot use.

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Derekcat
Junior Member


USA
342 Posts
Posted - 09 Aug 2003 :  13:03:10
O_O
ADB devices aren't supposed to be hot swappable…
http://www.lowendmac.com/macdan/010228cr.html

Yea, it should be fine if you use two HDs for linux, it usually tells you how you can do this in the docs [you might need to change the address of the linux volume though]

donno about X server…

I have Debian Linux [v.2.2 pateato] [ http://www.mac.linux-m68k.org/ ] [on my 660av], which is what I keep reading is the main choice for 68k [unless you use a BSD, which I haven't tried yet]

Not sure how to add another HD to a linux system…

humm… well Im not sure if 32 RAM is good enough, I have Gnome with the tabbed window manager on my 660av… and that runs kinda slow, and it has 48 RAM, but then again, it might work…
I would think that Linux could re-measure the RAM [it does a ram test during start up, so I think it would tell you if there were a problem there]

for the onboard Ethernet, you don't have to skip it during the install, it should merely lable it "eth0" [w/o the quotes], and the card "eth1" or something like that…
but more importantly, do you need to use DHCP or a static address? [I haven't figured out how to set up DHCP yet…]
I can't remember the command right now, but somewhere there is one that lets you enter a static IP address.

the power on feature, I would bet against it
as for a SW alternative, I dont know…

I remember that the naming is something like "sda0", "sda1", etc
it was either by SCSI ID or partition number [HD 1 partition 1= sda0] but don't remember for sure, since it was like last summer that I installed it…

some guides have pictures some don't… Not sure if Debian did, but it might have?

well, Good luck.

If I open my window all the bugs will get in… That's just one more reason to use a Mac!
LC ||
LC |||
||si
||ci
Quadra 660av
Quadra 950
PMs: 6100/G3/233, 6214CD, 2x 5260/100, 5400/120, 9500/G3/300
PB 5300ce
SuperMac C600 180, C600 240

Edited by - Derekcat on 09 Aug 2003 13:04:01Go to Top of Page

cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms


USA
4679 Posts
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 :  20:44:19
As I recall, the BSD's dont' support the onboard ethernet in the AV quaddies, so there's you're answer for that one.

ADB and RAM should be just fine, I don't see why not...

be careful with the ADB though, I suggest you dedicate your adb and monitor to the quaddie while setting it up with linux, then make sure it runs all the servers at bootup.

You'd be better off enabling ssh and logging in remotely to the nixquaddie, because... well it just is

You don't need any GUI to enable the servers, and your server will perform better if you're not logged in locally anyway.

If you absolutely NEED OS 7.6, you can do that, but I would suggest reformatting the 250 and dedicating that to filespace after you get the *nix working...

If you're not going to do too much, or if you don't expect an UBER user load, then 32MB will be ok, if you're running a small forum, you could even get MySQL and php on there... the more things you enable, the higher your system load will be, the slower your server will be... so beware.

I don't know about the "power feature" you're talking about, especially in 68k, I was unaware of it's existance in 68k machines... you live you learn huh?
beware, on some configs of [said feature] I've had machines that "restart" weather or not they lost power when you "restore" power... (very inconvenient)

you'll get used to how linux/unix does things with scsi when you get it going...


above all, don't run an OS you cannot learn, or are not familiar with...

have "other options" available while you're learning linux so that your errors and "learning experiences" can't accidentally ruin all data and possibly render your fine computer completely useless.

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Metrophage
New Member


Tonga
54 Posts
Posted - 19 Aug 2003 :  00:49:13
PowerMachTen is for PPC, ProMacTen is for 68k. I think it's version 2.2 if you felt inclined to try it. As for bugs? I guess I'll post what I find when I try it, but my 68k is not up yet.
Sounds like you are making some headway with things anyway, so I am out

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Marchie
Chaplain


USA
911 Posts
Posted - 20 Aug 2003 :  17:00:01
1) ADB not hot swap
2) no problem
3) you'll need to set up the Linux system to take serial input (if you make a terminal cable) or you can telnet/ssh in
4) use the newest ones from http://www.mac.linux-m68k.org/
5) it's not hard, commands I don't know. There's a utility to do it I know...
6a) should be enough, the processor will limit the sucess more than the RAM
6b) it won't panic
7) don't worry about it. you'll just have more than 1 ethernet port (en0, en1, enx, etc)
8) not sure
9) name schemr, the drives in Linux are numbered in the order they appear on the Mac OS desktop (except there are usually 1 or 2 partitions called "Mac Driver" that are teeny tiny that you see in Linux, but not Mac OS)

Go to the web site above... easy stp by step.

I was trying to load Linux on my Duo23 tonight here at work, because I sit on a fat pipe, and I deleted the Partition utility from my RAM disk... but darn it all I can;t get it to talk to the G3 mac here.

~Marchie

~Chaplain Marchie
Admin of The WonderLAN
~~"We are all Mad here"~~Go to Top of Page

cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms


USA
4679 Posts
Posted - 21 Aug 2003 :  06:35:48
I remember thinking about linux or bsd on the Mac IIsi... but now I have a much better... Blue/White running OSX.2 server, I might put A/UX on the IIsi

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The Balance Of Judgement
Senior Member


Ivory Coast
1006 Posts
Posted - 21 Aug 2003 :  12:40:12
The older macs make great little web boxes actually, and most can run headless, keyboardless etc.

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cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms


USA
4679 Posts
Posted - 24 Aug 2003 :  22:33:24
Most of the reason I haven't tried the Mac IIsi again (there's apache for A/UX actually...)

is because I don't know where mine is...

I have run it with 7.x and MacHTTP and it's worked great.

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