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AppleTalk "Chattyness"

Author	Topic
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 18 Jul 2003 : 01:28:22 If you've ever worked with or near an IT "dude" who hates Macs, you've probably heard him say how much he hates AppleTalk because of how chatty it is. But...what the hell are they talking about? Is it a real fact, or just another Windozer™? "**** em" - Jobs in regards to customers Warrior maclover5 68kMLA Official 68kMLA Detective Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
The Balance Of Judgement Senior Member Ivory Coast 1006 Posts	Posted - 18 Jul 2003 : 02:09:59 If you want to talk about protocalls being chatty, AOL and MSN are like the chatiest folks on the block, especially with MSN keeping a running tab if you are typing or not. Maybe appletalk is chatty but most network protocalls are, otherwise how would they know if a connection is still live? Looks like another biased user. Nuff said.
G4from128k Full Member USA 873 Posts	Posted - 18 Jul 2003 : 06:58:10 That IT "dude" probably resents any easy-to-use system as a threat to his job security. If some technological device doesn't require constant attention and arcane ministrations from a guru, it can't be any good. The reason Microsoft has high marketshare is that the IT guys that buy computers for corporations want computers that requires lots of technical support as a way fo justifing their high-paying jobs. If everyone bought Macs, there would be even more tech workers int eh unemployment lines. G4From128k by Day: Mild-Mannered Engineer and Trapeze(tm) Artist by Night: Colonel of Truth, Justice, and the Macintosh Way Reserve Officer in 68kMLA Cantankerous Coot Contingent
shaktiman Senior Member United Kingdom 1226 Posts	Posted - 18 Jul 2003 : 12:20:30 Well I'm not completly sure what the chattiness refers too, but for solidarity if nothing else I shall fin myself concuring with the other members. That said networking on pc's was behind Apple's & still may be for all I know. Appletalk has not been perfect for me, but it has worked & I find that a very important aspect. shaktiman Quadra 840av, prettymuchmaxedout8xcd drive os 8.1 128 meg ram, 500 meg hard drive 3 monitors 15" & 14" & 14"
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 18 Jul 2003 : 16:27:08 quote: If you want to talk about protocalls being chatty, AOL and MSN are like the chatiest folks on the block, especially with MSN keeping a running tab if you are typing or not. Yeah, i've heard about that. Thats why my old school tried to ban M$N and AIM. They banned M$N successfully, but not AIM. "**** em" - Jobs in regards to customers Warrior maclover5 68kMLA Official 68kMLA Detective Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
KatMac Starting Member USA 18 Posts	Posted - 18 Jul 2003 : 21:16:46 AppleTalk is designed to self-configure without assigning manual addresses or requiring any kind of DHCP-like server. Also, network services such as printers and file servers show up by name in the Chooser. The underlying network traffic to support these convenience features appears in the techie's traffic monitors and they complain about it. Users see network features that just work and require less tech support.
The Balance Of Judgement Senior Member Ivory Coast 1006 Posts	Posted - 19 Jul 2003 : 04:32:37 I choose function over looks. Which means if it works, great, get it done and I'll worry about anything else after. Appletalk just works, almost anyone can get Appletalk working. Try and get Windows Networking going and you end up going to some website reading 12 pages of text and images.
~Coxy Leader, Tactical Ops Unit Australia 2822 Posts	Posted - 19 Jul 2003 : 06:53:44 There is that, and there's also the fact that AppleTalk was originally designed for LocalTalk/PhoneNET hardware. That's why you'll never get the full speed of the media if you use it over Ethernet, as most people do these days. ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 19 Jul 2003 : 07:01:47 quote: I choose function over looks. Which means if it works, great, get it done and I'll worry about anything else after. Appletalk just works, almost anyone can get Appletalk working. Try and get Windows Networking going and you end up going to some website reading 12 pages of text and images. I second that! Windows networking really must have something against me. "**** em" - Jobs in regards to customers Warrior maclover5 68kMLA Official 68kMLA Detective Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
The Balance Of Judgement Senior Member Ivory Coast 1006 Posts	Posted - 19 Jul 2003 : 07:26:59 Appletalk also has less security issues than the other systems, and that's amazing considering it's years old and has not been updated much. Microsoft makes a patch and the nicatine wears out after an hour and the hackers are back at it. I have found too that Appletalks runs best when on serial cables compared to ethernet. For ethernet good speeds come from direct tcp/ip communications. Between 2 macs on a lan they can communicate at over 600KB/s. And that's old macs, like my Quadra 840. Mac rule, Bill Gates does nothing.
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 19 Jul 2003 : 17:37:10 Yeah. Thats one of the reasons why i love AppleTalk so much. And then there's the fact that it's so easy to set up, as was said before. "**** em" - Jobs in regards to customers Warrior maclover5 68kMLA Official 68kMLA Detective Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
bargepole Starting Member Canada 22 Posts	Posted - 20 Jul 2003 : 08:29:45 quote: If you've ever worked with or near an IT "dude" who hates Macs, you've probably heard him say how much he hates AppleTalk because of how chatty it is. But...what the hell are they talking about? Is it a real fact, or just another Windozer™? Calling Appletalk "chatty" is an understatement. It's downright noisy. On my test LAN I have 5 Mac hosts attached. Packet captures of the idling network reveals a constant stream of Appletalk SNAP frames. The packets are small (60 bytes) and bandwidth consumption is low (1500 bits/sec measured over 5 minutes). On my other LAN I have 5 Netbios hosts attached. Captures of packets on that idle LAN show larger Netbios packets (120 - 300 bytes) transmitted at a lower packet rate, resulting in about 2500 bits/sec of bandwidth use. In contrast, IP protocols running on both LANs while idle use immeasurably low bandwidth resources (<1 bit/sec). There are occasional blips of ARP requests and responses. The bandwidth overheads of Appletalk and Netbios are not a problem for small networks. However, if a large number of hosts are connected on the same segment, this overhead would use a significant amount of bandwidth resource. This is one reason Appletalk and Netbios are best suited for small networks and larger networks are better served using IP or other scalable protocols.
The Balance Of Judgement Senior Member Ivory Coast 1006 Posts	Posted - 20 Jul 2003 : 11:33:51 Apple only designed Appletalk for small networks and serial cables, it wasn't really designed to be pushed into the limelight as it has been today, although it has done prety good for itself. It's another matter of profesionals who use the wrong software for thier needs or rate software in the wrong way. For example, many people use NetBios/Appletalk etc., because it is cheap but they don't use a proper system. So, sadly because some people got into using it as standard, many think it's equivelent to commercial strength. Thus they judge it that way. It's like a mistaken identity. I probably didn't explain it that great, but basically sometimes you see a product which was never designed for something but used for it anyways and when it fails, people start complaining when in the first place the readme or statements of suitability said plain and clear what it could and shouldn't/can't do.
q950 Junior Member USA 135 Posts	Posted - 20 Jul 2003 : 19:32:01 I've heard of the appletalk chattiness problem. I was talking to one of my network administrators at my high school and they had blocked appletalk from talking over their WAN to other schools. Said it used too much bandwidth. I think the actually blocked everything but IP. I can understand why too, our school system used microwave links to connect the different buildings together and they only had 45Mbits/sec to play with, and that had to include voice traffic too. I did setup a server for the art department computers that used Appletalk and it worked fine, except that you could only access it from inside the building because of the blocking of different protocols on the WAN. Appletalk is a little moot anyways, Apple is even shipping Macs with appletalk by default, most things just dont need Appletalk because IP fills in and works on almost all networks. Logan
q950 Junior Member USA 135 Posts	Posted - 20 Jul 2003 : 19:33:45 oops, i meant to say "Apple is even shipping Macs with Appletalk off by default"
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 21 Jul 2003 : 10:47:49 yeah... now you do AppleTalk or 'AFP" over TCP/IP protocol... this means that in chooser on anything OS9 and before... "PRAGMA" won't appear in the chooser... I'll have ot use network brower or type in "192.168.2.9" into the "server ip address" box but it does "just work" Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide "I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life" I have alot of posts... if you don't like it than I don't know what to say.
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 21 Jul 2003 : 16:53:00 Does that allow you to access OS X machines from OS 9 machines now? "**** em" - Jobs in regards to customers Warrior maclover5 68kMLA Official 68kMLA Detective Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1

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