Upon closer inspection, I turned up most of a Commodore64 setup (screen, drives, etc.), lacking only the C64 itself. I passed on these, but kept looking...
I then found 5 or 6 seriously trashed IBM PC's... These looked somewhat modern, so I poked around, but sadly they'd all been totally stripped of just about anything that could be ripped off - RAM, drives, CPU, cards, etc. I'm not a huge PC fan, but even so, it's always sad to see good hardware so mistreated. Anyway, I kept looking around, and spotted another of the IBM boxen being used to hold up one end of a nasty old table! This one was the saddest looking one of the bunch- the front was smashed in, stained, crap was taped all over it, and it was generally f*cked up. I pulled it out, took the case off, and to my total surprise, the guts were in pretty good shape! It seemed to have one stick of RAM, a CPU card, CD-ROM (24x, going by the lable), floppy, and an HDD in the bottom of the case. I scrounged around, found a power cable, plugged it in, and it fired right up. I then looked around some more, found a similarly fugly-but-working 17" screen, keyboard and mouse, and hooked 'em all together... and it all worked!
Turns out the PC is a Pentium ][ / 450 mHz, running Win98. I'm not sure on the RAM amount (might be 64 megs), but I think the HDD is 6 gigs... It's also got 2 on-board USB ports, an AGP slot, 1 free ISA slot, 3 free PCI slots, and on-board video, sound (in and out) and, uh, other stuff I can't think of right now...

So, I scrounged a better (but still pretty smashed) casing for the PC, and bought the whole rig - screen, KB, mouse (with a scroll wheel! Wheee!), and PC for.... $25!
Schweeeeet.
So, not that I've carried it all home (my back really hurts now), I'm gonna clear off my desk and play around with my new setup.
Any suggestions what uses I could put it to? What kinda upgrades can this bad boy take? Mmmmm, AGP.... :-)

More to follow, as this breaking story unfolds...
:-)
SpaceBoy

Official MLA Raconteur
AppleBASIC FOREVER!
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PowerMac 6500/275
Performa 6400/180
3x PowerMac 7600/132
SE/30 32/250, "Wang"
PB 1400/133
PB 180/33
PMac 7100/G3-266
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
Newton 120, "PADD"

--------------------------

Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s

I'm supposed to have my dad's PII-400 as my server sometime soon... if you could get windows NT4 or 2000 server it'd make a nice external hard drive for one/more of your macs!

You can still put NT4 and/or 2000 pro on it and it should run OK for 'stuffs'

good find!

Server isn't a bad idea, you could install BeOS and have a really nice setup. As far as RAM goes just buy an extra 64MB which'll cost next to nothing.

I'd use it as an MP3 player or DVD player, you could also use it for flashing graphics cards to work in a Mac.

You could also overclock it, IIRC it is probably multiplier locked so you'll need to overclock the bus speed, plenty of PC sites will tell you how and it's not difficult.

beware spaceboy... BUY THE RIGHT KIND OF RAM!!!
My Gateway needed PC100 Low Density (not the pII-400, this was an Athlon-700)
You'll likely need just regular PC100 though.... check with IBM and other places though

quote:

---

You could get a cheap GeForce 2 or a Radeon 7000 for the AGP slots, if you get one with TV out you'll surely find more uses.

---

That's a great tip- anyone have a videocard to sell/trade? Otherwise, I'll start scrounging on eBay...
I've already upgraded the RAM- I turned up two 32-meg sticks in my room, so now I'm crusing with 128 megs, which has made a marked improvement in its performance! Sweeeeeeet. Still, I'm sure it could use some more.... heh heh....

My current plan is to trick it out as best I can (more RAM, bigger HDD, better videocard, maybe a faster CPU, if possible) on the cheap, and use it to re-immerse myself in the world of PC gaming, which I've long been out of. Granted, I doubt I'll be selling my PS2 anytime soon, but still, there are a ton of cool sounding games that never make it to Mac/consoles... Plus, as much as I adore my PowerBook G4, it's a semi-lousy gaming system, as it's got a crap video chip (^%$#ing Rage128... grrr...) that can't be upgraded... not to mention the whole "If I play any CPU-intensive games, the underside of the case gets so hot I can flip it over and make pancakes"-thing...

Okay, off to class!
SpaceBoy
PS What games are good on a PC? Also, should I stick with Win98, or should I start looking at Win200/Me/XP? Really, I'm pretty much lost when it comes to recent Windows versions, so any suggestions will be really useful... Thanks!

Official MLA Raconteur
AppleBASIC FOREVER!
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PowerMac 6500/275
Performa 6400/180
3x PowerMac 7600/132
SE/30 32/250, "Wang"
PB 1400/133
PB 180/33
PMac 7100/G3-266
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
Newton 120, "PADD"

You should be able to get a new GeForce 2 MX 400 with TV out for about 20-25 USD, so I probably wouldn't bother looking for a second hand one.

As far as games go half life and quake 2 era software will be fine, emulation, etc, commandos is a really nice squad based real time strategy game that should be in the bargain bins by now, crusader no remorse and crusadcer no regret are also pretty good. Unreal Tournamennt and Q3 should run OK with a decent graphics card like the GeForce 2.

To be honest I don't know that it will make a significantly *better* gaming machine than your PB G4 with the exception of a more powerful graphics card.

As far as an OS goes stick with Windowas 98, I suspect you will be using a lot of older dos based games that will cause you nothing but headaches with anything newer. Windows 98 can also be obtained legally for next to nothing, of course it'll be a cold day in hell that i ever give money to microsoft.

EDIT - Forgot to mention, one of the few good things about owning a PC is you not only get the games but you get the editors to go with them so you can make your own maps/mods for Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 etc, you can then use these on your Mac as well, thats probably about as cool as PCs get.

However if you only use English or some sort of Western European language, Windows 98 or Windows 98SE is probably the best bet.

Your best bet would be to find a tnt2 ultra or a voodoo 3 3500 (both of which cost next to nothing) and play directx 7 or earlier games.

The OS should be windows 98 SE, get an optical mouse.

I recommend a aureal sq2500 or Diamond Monster mx300 (aureal based pci sound cards) to get the most of the video games of that era.

My PC gaming collection has the following systems

386/40 - Early dos games

P200mmx - later Era dos games, very early 3dfx games (on voodoo 1 card)

p2-400 - Later era 3dfx/direct x games

AMD 1500+XP for current games

On the gaming end of things, Quake II will run very well on this system. If you have never played the original Unreal, you have missed out on a REALLY COOL game. It's a pretty long game, too, probably the best first person shooter I've ever played. IMHO, even UT and Q3 having better graphics don't stack up when it comes to storyline. Quake II is sort of long, although not as long as Unreal, and the plot is excellent although not as good as Unreal. Q3 and UT will be choppy on this system, but should be playable. No matter what video card you get, a PII will still have trouble with these games. BTW, if you decide to try Unreal, it likes a card in the 3dfx Voodo series best. Voodo 3 AGP would probably be the best one for the money. More "advanced" cards will work, but I've found are tricky to set up on Unreal and don't work as well as it was programmed specifically for Voodo. Nvidia cards might work, as I've heard that they are backwards compatible with 3dfx hardware acceleration, but I'm thinking they're not as good as the real thing. You have to remember that the Voodo 3 and PII came out around the same time, so they are well matched to one another. Anything more would be possibly wasting your money.

On the subject of Windows XP, forget about it. That's like trying to put OSX on a Performa 6400. XP is too new. I wouldn't use it on anything under a gigahertz. My Pentium III 600 is still running W2k just fine and it still can't do much more than Windows 98. The only thing to remember when using Windows 98 is make sure it's the second edition (SE). First edition is highly buggy and I'd recommend getting rid of it if that's what's on there.

The Lightning Stalker

Performa 631CD, 7.5.5
LC III Mail Server
Q610
Q650

6400/180 40/1.6G/512k L2/enet/video-in/TV
7600/120 '604/233, 80/1.2G & 4G, 9.2.2 (Main Mac)

--------------------------

Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s

If the machine doesnt do what you want I suggest building a complete new pc. Athlon xp 2000+ chip should be a good starting point, ati 9500 video, 512mb ddr 333 memory, 60+gb hd, audigy 2 sound card.. you get the point.

I would keep the computer you have and get a voodoo 3 video card and play the really cool older games.
Most of the new games look nice but are just eye candy, which is why I have all these computers to play the best of all era's

I would also recommend an old Amiga 500, I have discovered quite a few great games for that system.

It sounds like you just want to play the older games from that era and a few less demanding games from other eras? That machine should be good as-is maybe with a video card improvement...

I was recently in a similar boat. A friend gave me a P2 simillar to your but for the cost of a better chip, or new mobo I was able to get an allinone motherboard and 1.2 GHz Duron which I built up with spare powermac parts.

Get a VooDoo 3/Radeon 7000/GeForce 2 with TV out. ALthouth the ATI and NVidia cards are more expensive they're all ectremely cheap, the the TV out would probably make the machine more useful aswell. All of those cards can also be flashed to work in a Mac should you get a newer desktop Mac in the future.

what is the model of the IBM PC you got anyway SpaceBoy??

Okay, keep the tips flowing in!
:-)
SpaceBoy
PS Anyone have a copy of Half-Life they're not using? Heh heh heh...

quote:

---

what kinda CPU upgrade path am I looking at?

---

It really depends on the motherboard. Some only support Pentium II. Some also support Celery or PIII, but usually only one or the other. Some support a Celery or PIII, but need a bios flash first. Athlons won't run in there. IIRC, AMD made a slot 1 K6, but it will be slower in games. There will be an upper limit to the megahertz of CPU you can drop in. All this information is best found on the motherboard manufacturer's website. That is if you can figure out who the manufacturer is.

Unknown_K is right. On the newer games, this motherboard will also be a bottleneck because it is only using 66 or 100 MHz front side bus, and probably 1X AGP. The only thing is that IMHO, the newer games aren't as good as the older ones.

quote:

---

There were slot 1 p3's faster then 733 I think but its a waste of cash.

---

Mine is a 600 MHz slot 1. At the time I bought it, everything faster than that in slot 1 was really expensive. From what Unknown_K said, that is probably still the case. That motherboard probably won't handle anything that fast, anyway.

====================== Motherboard ===========================
Computer Hardware > Motherboards - AMD > ECS > N82E16813135135
ECS L7S7A2 SiS 746 Chipset ATX Motherboard - RETAIL
Specifications:
Supported CPU: (Socket A) AMD Athlon XP CPU
Chipset: SiS 746 & SiS 963
FSB:266/333MHz
RAM:3xDIMM DDR400/333/266/200 Max 3GB (2GB Max for DDR400)
IDE:2xUltra DMA 66/100/133
Slots:5xPCI slots, 1xAGP(8X), No CNR Slot
Ports:2xUSB,2xPS2,1xLPT,2xCOM, and Audio Ports
Onboard Audio:C-Media CMI9738/4CH AC'97 CODEC
Onboard LAN: PHYceiver 10/100Mbs


Item: N82E16813135135 Model# L7S7A2
Rating: (avg rating out of 11 voters) Shipping: Special FedEx Saver Shipping $4.00
Price: $57.00 Stock: YES

========= Processor ============================================
Computer Hardware > Processors > AMD > N82E16819103378
AMD ATHLON XP 2500 "Barton" 333 FSB PROCESSOR CPU- OEM
Specifications:
CPU: 1.83 GHz
Type: XP 2500 Barton Core
Cache: 512K L2, 128K L1, Total 640KB
BUS: 333MHz
Socket A
OEM (Processor Only) Reviews From Tomshardware.com

-OEM (limit 5 per customer)


Item: N82E16819103378 Model# AXDA2500DKV4D
Rating: (avg rating out of 47 voters) Shipping: Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
Price: $128.00 Stock: YES

=========== Memory ===============================================
Computer Hardware > Memory (System Memory) > CRUCIAL > N82E16820145059
►Hot! CRUCIAL MICRON 512MB 64x64 PC 2700 DDR RAM - OEM
184-Pin, CL=2.5-Unbuffered Non Parity 2.5V, CT6464Z335 Requires DDR supported Motherboard - Lifetime Warranty. OEM -OEM (limit 10 per customer)


Item: N82E16820145059 Model# CT6464Z335
Rating: (avg rating out of 110 voters) Shipping: Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
Price: $68.00 Stock: YES

=============== Video Cards =====================================
Computer Hardware > Video Cards > SAPPHIRE TECHNOLOGY LIMITED > N82E16814102252
ATI OEM RADEON 9500 128MB DDR Black BULK
Specifications: New Black PCB Version
Chipset: ATI RADEON 9500
Memory:128MB 128-bit DDR memory
Supports the new AGP 8X standard (2.0 GB/sec)
Unique VIDEOSHADER™ engine uses programmable pixel shaders to accelerate video processing and provide better-looking visuals
ATI's latest FULLSTREAM™ technology removes blocky artifacts from streaming Internet video and provides sharper image quality
SMARTSHADER™ 2.0 technology allows users to experience complex, movie-quality effects in next-generation 3D games and applications
OEM Box (see pics)
Powered By ATI Manufactured By Saphire Technologies -OEM


Item: N82E16814102252 Model# RADEON 9500 128MB
Rating: (avg rating out of 114 voters) Shipping: Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
Price: $155.00 Stock: YES

This is just an example of how high end gear is relatively inexpensive these days, and slower parts (much faster then the system you have) are even cheaper.

For new equipment in the US with cheap/fast shipping www.newegg.com is hard to beat. For older equipment (maybe obsolete stuff) check out www.compgeeks.com

EBAY has some deals once and a while

In washington we had RePC

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