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Author	Topic
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 14 Apr 2003 : 19:17:51 This question if off topic for this board but I see there is a lot of electronics knowledge on this board so I figure I'll give it a try. I'm to cheep to buy cable so I have a nice antenna on the roof of my house. The thing is I have two antennas. I'm using the largest one now. Can I hook up both antennas to each other to get better reception? If so what's the best way to wire them together, series or parallel? Would I get better reception if I point them in opposite directions or should they be pointing the same way? Thanks for any info anyone can give. SM I like it slow
foetoid Full Member USA 554 Posts	Posted - 14 Apr 2003 : 19:58:08 to be quite honest, I can't answer your question. It sounds like a very interesting idea, and plausible in my mind. I don't know how to make it work though. Although, I don't know if it would increase reception or not, because as I think about it, wouldn't the reception have to do with the power of the recieving device? I don't know... ________________ foetoid, that's (fee-toy-duh) http://www.foetoid.doesntexist.com
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 14 Apr 2003 : 20:19:40 You can hook up more than one television to a single antanna, so I see no problem int he idea, that you can use more than one antenna in series or in parallel.... (I'd wait for other responses though) the WORST thing that can happen is you'll have a bit more fuzz until you nix one of them from the setup... Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 14 Apr 2003 : 21:56:20 No the worst thing that could happen is I could fall off the roof. :) I believe the antenna I'm using now is 28' and the pole is about 12' higher then my chimney. I had to stand on my chimney to install everything. Don't ask. I would put up a rooter but it would add to much weight. The antenna I want to add is 6'. Eventually I'm going to get an HDTV receiver so I can pull in HDTV signals. I can pick up TV stations from 3 different cities with my current setup but I want more. I won't be happy until I'm pulling in stations from China. I like it slow
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 14 Apr 2003 : 22:21:02 Maybe you could get a PAL converter and watch Channel 7 (an aussie channel)? -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5 68k Macintosh Liberation Army Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
Gothikon Full Member Australia 537 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 02:01:22 Yeah cause Australian TV is soo greate Australia is a nice place but it's seriously lacking in two departments Quality TV programming <-- Can live without this Quality meat <-- Essential Who wants to eat sausages made of chicken, chicken is not quality meat, butchers devoted to chicken? One of the advantages of BSE etc back in the UK is it meant all the supermarkets were selling high quality meat at extremely low prices. Another thing about the UK is that butchers sold much much better meat than you found in the supermarket, here however the meat in butchers is little better if it all. Hows that for going OT?! -------- LC 2, LC 3, Q605, Perf 638, Colour Classic (160 603e) 6100, 7200, PTP 225 (Quad 604), PM 9600, G4 Cube
Da Penguin Senior Member USA 1094 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 04:03:05 I'd say trash is going to know the most on this, but I'll see what I can do with my limited knowledge, and some guess work. I'd say you would want them wired in series so as to act as one large device. My only worry with this is overall "draw" if you will, and also possibly some sort of interference. How far apart is the short antenna going from the big one? If you point one perpendicular to the other, you should get best reception. Point them both the same way, and one will "cancel out" the other (see just the same signals). Again, don't quote me on any of that, but it makese sense in me head. ~The Penguin \| Want free 68kmla email? Drop me a line \| \| Captain, Intelligence Operations / Space Cowboy \| \| 68khotline.no-ip.org <-- Official Hotline Server \|
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 04:17:13 But chicken is good! -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5 68k Macintosh Liberation Army Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 06:13:11 well dad said something about 'impedance' or something... nothin'gs stopped me from doing the crazy junk I do though... hm... glayven.. It's interesting everything that this thing called 'impedance' can do to you.... I just hope it's not what killed my Quadra!!! (actually that'd be nice to know at least what did) Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 06:33:11 Using the Performa speaker did. -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5 68k Macintosh Liberation Army Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
G4from128k Full Member USA 873 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 06:59:13 Combining antennas is tricky for both impedence and phasing reasons. The performance of a two-antenna combination will vary with the difference of the lengths of the lead wires, the relative physical locations of the antennas, and the wavelength of the signal that you are trying to receive. Your best bet is to mount the antennas one above the other so that the driver elements (the elements of the antenna that are connected to the lead wire) are lined up vertically. You would also need to make sure that the length of the wires from the two antennas are the same up to the point where you combine them (this may mean that you have some slack in one lead wire). Antenna design is total black magic voodoo because of how the crests and troughs of the waves are spread in the air, in the antenna, and down the lead wires. Your best bet is to try it and see. Connect the two antennas to the TV, check reception on all channels, then shorten the length of one of the antenna leads by one inch, check reception, shorten, check, shorten, check, etc. If shortening the length of one of the antenna leads makes reception worse, shorten the other lead. This will help match the phases of the antennas to each other. G4From128k by Day: Mild-Mannered Engineer and Trapeze(tm) Artist by Night: Colonel of Truth, Justice, and the Macintosh Way Reserve Officer in 68kMLA Cantankerous Coot Contingent
Flash Full Member Australia 637 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 07:48:42 What you need is a combiner. This takes several inputs, and gives you a single output. I am guessing with your aerials that not only are they pointing different directions (to recieve from different transmitter towers) but they are different frequencies as well. The combiner will take your VHF and UHF signals (or whatever they may be: LF, HF, VHF, UHF, Satellite...) and add them together into one cable. Active combiners are the best - especially if you can adjust the gain on individual frequencies so that the system is balanced (60-80dBmv range is best), but passive devices are OK too, and would probably suffice seeing as you have only two inputs. Do a google for: RF Combiner and you'll get a few results - you should be able to get them through a reasonably good electronics supplier. Here's the kinda thing you are looking for... http://www.mwpersons.com/RF-Combiner.html cheers Flash! - - - - - - - - - - - - - A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it sure beats a blank stare for starting a conversation. 68k ParaMedic
The Lightning Stalker Full Member USA 747 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 15:35:13 Yeah. All that and just try one or both, series or parallel, etc. We're not EETs here, so just experiment until you get the best signal. You're not going to hurt your TV or anything unless you try top hook up the mess to your wall outlet or something. Oh, and forget about pulling in stations from Australia. TV signals don't bounce off of the atmosphere and back down to the earth like AM and SW do, so the only way you would be able to get Australian TV from an arial is to have a tower tall enough to overcome the curvature of the earth. If you're not on the west coast, that would be impossible too because you are actually on the opposite side of the earth. The Lightning Stalker Performa 631CD, 7.5.5 LC III, FPU, 20/80/enet, 7.5.5, Mail Server 6400/180 40/1.6G/512k L2/enet/video-in/TV 7600/120 '604/233, 80/1.2G & 1G/512k L2, 9.2.2 (Main Mac) Lady Smith Apples: Apple IIc 5.25" 2 Apple IIe
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 15:53:45 Ooooh, interesting. Thanks for the info, Lightning. -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5 68k Macintosh Liberation Army Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 16:11:25 Well I have one quad shield RG6 going to the roof. I'm going to try and experiment this weekend. I think what I'm going to try first is connecting the two antennas in parallel with 300 ohm cable then connect my impedance transformer to the lower antenna so it will step it down to 75 ohms. My other question is what do you think would be better. Put the smaller antenna above the larger one or vice versa. There is a local ham radio guy around here I need to track down. The guy built a house just for his ham radio equipment. He also has three antenna arrays that are so high he has to have lights on top of them for the air planes. I'll let you all know how it goes this weekend. Thanks for all your input. SM I like it slow
G4from128k Full Member USA 873 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 16:42:00 quote: Would I get better reception if I point them in opposite directions or should they be pointing the same way? Array-style TV antennas are directional and often their strongest reception in one direction only (if you flip the antenna around, its reception won't be quite as strong). Thus, you want to determine the angular directions to all the transmitters in your area. A bit of experimentation (rotate the antenna while checking reception) or some calls to your local stations (to ask where the transmitter is located) will help map all the angles. I would use the smaller antenna to pick up nearby stations and the bigger antenna to pickup more distant stations (mount the bigger antenna higher for even better range). You might also find that you need to point the antennas in an average direction that puts the main beam of each antenna on a weaker station while getting OK reception from other nearby/stronger stations. Good luck, and please don't fall off the roof -- you may like it slow, but gravity likes it fast. G4From128k by Day: Mild-Mannered Engineer and Trapeze(tm) Artist by Night: Colonel of Truth, Justice, and the Macintosh Way Reserve Officer in 68kMLA Cantankerous Coot Contingent
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 21:36:11 I know that switchboxes exist... you could flip thru the channels and determine which one is best for each channel and simply switch antennas... Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 15 Apr 2003 : 22:57:27 quote: you may like it slow, but gravity likes it fast. HAR!™ Thats the funniest thing i've heard in ages! -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5 68k Macintosh Liberation Army Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1
Flash Full Member Australia 637 Posts	Posted - 16 Apr 2003 : 01:28:00 LOL! I like taht one too - - - - - - - - - - - - - A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it sure beats a blank stare for starting a conversation. 68k ParaMedic
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 16 Apr 2003 : 06:24:45 hehehe.... I need a TV/FM and video system for my 6500 so that i feel the need for a TV-antenna... Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 09:46:10 Cory: The best place to get a new TV/FM card is from www.paylesscomputer.com . I bought one from this guy and they are new and he won't gig you on shipping. I like it slow
MrLynn Junior Member USA 394 Posts	Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 15:44:28 Unless you just want the excercise climbing up and down from the roof, rather than fool with the two antennas, I would just get a motor-driven rotary mast for the best one. These are controlled from below, and after a while you get to know the best direction for any given signal. I think I've got an old rotor and control in my basement. Where are you? /Mr Lynn The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program. --Larry Niven
The Lightning Stalker Full Member USA 747 Posts	Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 16:08:46 Yes! ArcheRotors rock!
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 19:10:04 The mast is Way to tall for a rooter. The weight of it would cause the mast to snap when the next strong wind comes by. I plan on putting my rooter up sometime but I'm going to have to use guy wire to hold the mast in place. even with the rooter I still want to use both antennas at the same time. It doesn't look like I'm going to get around to it this weekend because of rain. Oh well I guess I'll get to it one of these days. I like it slow
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 18 Apr 2003 : 19:30:18 Shrevesystems has the video in systems for like... $2 and I at least want to get the video in card first, because you need it to use the TV part of the TV/FM/Video system... And I want to make sure that I am getting a TV and FM kit... not just the TV one... Always have I wanted to have a real FM tuner on my mac... I've been using a Walkmann attached to the audio in on either my monitor or my 7300 for awhile now Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 08:55:23 I would do a search on Shives systems (or how ever you spell there name). They have been ripping off people for years! They like to ship you the wrong part then when you contact them they tell you there will be a 15% restocking fee. They also like to ship out untested equipment, so lots of times people get stuff that doesn't work and they charge the 15% restocking fee to exchange it. They have a long history of ripping off people. Never do business with a company that charges a restocking fee! Trust me on this one buy it from paylesscomputer.com . I've done business with them and they are great. I like it slow
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 09:29:23 quote: I would do a search on Shives systems (or how ever you spell there name). They have been ripping off people for years! They like to ship you the wrong part then when you contact them they tell you there will be a 15% restocking fee. They also like to ship out untested equipment, so lots of times people get stuff that doesn't work and they charge the 15% restocking fee to exchange it. They have a long history of ripping off people. Never do business with a company that charges a restocking fee! Trust me on this one buy it from paylesscomputer.com . I've done business with them and they are great. Dunno what you're talking about if it has to do with Shreve, I've had nothing but good luck dealing with them for at least 12 years. The only times I've ever gotten an incorrect part from them, it was because boxes were mismarked on RMA shipping lables and I got a couple of color SE/30 cards instead of the grayscale cards I'd ordered and full PAS16 LC kits when I was only expecting bare boards. I've got no complaints! jt ™. Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 09:47:53 Here is one of may links you can get from doing a google search on them. http://home.earthlink.net/~canthes/ShreveHorror.html Consider yourself lucky. They sent you the wrong part but it worked in your favor. This just goes to show you that they have problems. If you wouldn't have gotten something better then what you payed for you would feel the same way I do about them. I like it slow Edited by - SlowMac on 19 Apr 2003 09:48:53
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 10:13:46 Need more links about these a**holes. Here is all the proof you need. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Shreve+systems&ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search Stay away for this company!!!! Also the ones at paylesscomputer.com are new and come with everything. I like it slow Edited by - SlowMac on 19 Apr 2003 10:37:50
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 14:18:25 The only problems I've personally seen with shreve, is that they charge too much and that their website is always out of date. I still need the Apple VIDEO system in order to use the TV/FM system, and the video systems are like.. $2 at shreve, I believe I'll be getting a video system and the apple camera there, if I can afford it, I also am wanting an LC580 and a video system for it... I am not sure I'd pay $40 USD for an Apple TV/FM system though... Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
SlowMac New Member USA 70 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 14:38:27 You don't need an LC580. What you need is a 6150/66 Work Group Server. If you don't need the whole LC580, I've got an LC580 logic board for sale $5 SM I like it slow Edited by - SlowMac on 19 Apr 2003 14:38:57
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 14:45:31 I was going for the new in box effect I like that the TV/FM systems there are New in box.. but that still doesn't get me the video system, and I don't necessarily need a spare TV card if I buy the TV/video and a TV/FM systems... I do need a 6150 thoudgh Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 22:53:51 quote: Consider yourself lucky. They sent you the wrong part but it worked in your favor. This just goes to show you that they have problems. If you wouldn't have gotten something better then what you payed for you would feel the same way I do about them. The SE/30 LIVES! . . . well kinda . . . it's mostly my SE, with the metal chassis, mobo and drives outta the freebie deader I got from the thrift shop a while back. I cobbled it together to test the board I got from Shreve that says "Colorboard 108+SE/30" on it and it may actually only be a ClearVue/GS30 after all. It's running system six tho and it throws a color splash screen up on the IntelliColor Display/20 at startup, maybe the drivers/control panel in the DeclROM on the card are to blame? It's got a whole 2 Megs of RAM on it ATM! jt ™. Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 19 Apr 2003 : 23:59:30 hehe you can run system 7 with that! I know because on my se fdhd I wanted to run system 7 but never got around to discharging the monitor... I had all sorts of RAM to try out in that thing... still have the RAM to try to... I'm armed whenever I get another compact! Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide

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