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Topic |
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TiMacLover
Senior Member
USA
1282 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jan 2002 : 17:17:10
This is the question, USB on Quadra 610? Can I, is it possible?jeremy "I keep my friends close, but I keep my enemies closer"
Napoleon My AOL, AIM Sceen name is got 007s milk Covert Ops
N.F.C Newton Force Captain
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:15 |
macdaddy
Junior Member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2002 : 18:53:00
USB on a Quadra 610 ain't possible. You need a PCI slot, which the 610 does not have. Sorry to disappoint you.macdaddy
68K Macintosh Liberation Army
68K Macs liberated : 9
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FireWire is fast
General, 4 star
USA
1559 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2002 : 20:23:41
*deletes maclady's triple post*Without getting into details, no 68k can have USB / FireWire because no 68k has PCI. (USB and FireWire cards are only PCI) FireWire is fast
General, 4 star
beholder of the Quadra/Centris Stick of Justice™ |
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2002 : 20:51:17
quote:
(USB and FireWire cards are only PCI)
IMHO, the only reason this is true is that apple didn't patch os so that earlier macs would have usb & firewire capability. There's nothing all that special about either interface or pci. Nubus ppc's and quadras could have easily handled either of the new interfaces. jt
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader
USA
2965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 09:07:15
If some reckless company did ever make such a thing as a Nubus USB card, it would only work on Nubus PPC's running 8.1 or higher (but preferably 8.6). However, no such thing will ever exist because the cost of manufacturing and testing it would probably outweigh the profits from selling it.666th poster to the
68K Macintosh Liberation Army Forums
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 11:02:56
quote:
However, no such thing will ever exist because the cost of manufacturing and testing it would probably outweigh the profits from selling it.
Which is exactly why there there was never a 7.5.x. which would have enabled us to play with any of our 68k toys and USB devices simultaneously, but I'm still looking for a 10bt workaround.
Challenges from Apple = Play time! jt Edited by - Trash80toG-4 on 21 Jan 2002 11:03:43 |
TiMacLover
Senior Member
USA
1282 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 14:28:46
What about the ADB to USB converters? Can you just liek swap from USB to ADB the other way around, would that work?jeremy "I keep my friends close, but I keep my enemies closer"
Napoleon My AOL, AIM Sceen name is got 007s milk Covert Ops
N.F.C Newton Force Captain
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:15 |
cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader
USA
2965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 14:36:40
No. ADB to USB converters do just that, and not the other way around.666th poster to the
68K Macintosh Liberation Army Forums
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 18:20:47
quote:
No. ADB to USB converters do just that, and not the other way around.
I called griffin tech support when their adapter first came out. I spoke at length about two way conversion with an engineer who said it might work with slow peripherals like keyboards and mice, but not for printers, drives etc. and probably wouldn't be worth the effort. *sigh*jt  Edited by - Trash80toG-4 on 21 Jan 2002 18:22:24 |
cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader
USA
2965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 19:12:17
Okay, in that case, an ADB to USB converter may allow you to use USB mice/keyboards and other input-only devices assuming you have a Nubus PPC running at least OS 8.1 with all the current Apple USB drivers installed (though 8.6-9.1 would probably be better off).None-the-less, you will never see any kind of USB device connected to a 68k machine. 666th poster to the
68K Macintosh Liberation Army Forums
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 19:42:13
quote:
None-the-less, you will never see any kind of USB device connected to a 68k machine.
cine', i'd never give you a hard time, hope you didn't/won't take my posts that way. My call to griffin was to suggest an ADB device to connect USB peripherals to any ADB equipped machine, which is why I ended up talking to an engineer. An A-B-C-D... switch for my 68k's, a PC and an iMac/USB-only-tower was my primary concern. Now that "BasicStamp" type computers are appearing with USB and generic USB controllers are becoming common, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see someone post a how-to hardware/firmware (the software to burn onto an EPROM) solution.jt: w/fingers crossed!
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader
USA
2965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 21:50:19
Hey, you're not giving me a hard time! This forum is nothing without hardware geeks a-arguing!Let me re-phrase my statement, as absolutes usually do turn out false: If ever the USB interface is successfully implemented on a 68k machine, I would regard it as "unique" and not easily reproduceable except in the most robust of the 040's (read: with FPU) running OS 8.1 and with apple's USB drivers installed. even then, I highly doubt you'd get anything above input devices to work, especially considering the power requirement being higher than the ADB bus can provide. And that's on a good day! You know, I should really bring this up with Dr. Bob over at AppleFritter, he's the genius on the subject! 666th poster to the
68K Macintosh Liberation Army Forums
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2002 : 22:47:22
quote:
Hey, you're not giving me a hard time! This forum is nothing without hardware geeks a-arguing!You know, I should really bring this up with Dr. Bob over at AppleFritter, he's the genius on the subject!
damn-betcha!Sounds like somebody i'd like, but tell him there wouldn't be any drivers/software at all involved in the setup I suggested. The only software would be on-board firmware and there would be a powered hub built into the KVM, all usb devices would be switched between the usb-equipped machines but only the kbd/mouse would connect to the usb/serial-adb/serial embedded processor/converter when KVM switcheded to ADB/68k setting. The setup would be very similar to the PS2/PC-ADB circuitry in a couple of adapters that I have. The mac & pc cpu's don't even know the adapters are there, no drivers or software involved at all, no embedded pc on one of them the other I never disassembled. I wanted to be able to have even my PB100 hooked up to a KVM with a PC and USB Mac(s). Sorry I wasn't clearer in the earlier posting. jt
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2002 : 09:17:40
quote:
No. ADB to USB converters do just that, and not the other way around.
Ok now you've got me hooked into another menagerie mod-maniacs, I'm never going to get any work done! I read and re-read both threads and discovered that we're not really talking about the same thing, imagine that!  One more post to further clarify (and confuse) my statements. I love it when I have to search for examples and I find new info because I can't adequately describe a concept in .txt. Then I get a new perspective on the problem at hand, bungle the explanation.......vicious cycle, but fun! Here is a direct parallel to the USB peripherals on a 68K Mac converter that I had proposed. The only reason it can work is that USB is never really implemented on the 68k, the converter masquerades as something the poor critter can actually deal with and the converter is only asked to cope with slow I/O devices. In the PC world they call this a keyboard wedge to get all manner of devices to communicate via the keyboard interface which actually has some nice features. Just like the common assumption that you can't hack an ADB interface onto a 128k, the assumption that USB is beyond the capabilities of a 68k is both right and wrong, depending on the definitions and ways of looking at the problem. IMHO Check out the Cassie interface (a "very complex" ADB near-precursor) to 128k interface solution which illustrates my point. http://www.applefritter.com/prototypes/cassie/interface.html That said, I found new info in the search for clarification. It looks as though I may be able to hack my 3 kbd interface KVM Switch from the PS2 side of the problem. KeyStone USB Data Sheet
http://www.svbus.com/KEDS.html I already have an early version of the Keystone for the PS2-ADB conversion of one Mac. This device wasn't very happy about working in conjuction with my manual PS2 KVM Switch , so some modification might be necessary or I might have to steal the Belkin converter back from my kid. Until I get another Graphics Accelerator for my WWII flight sims (or I retrieve my K6 box at the same time, yeah right! that'll fly!), it's all academic anyway. KeyStone User's Guide
http://www.svbus.com/KeyStoneUG.pdf
____________________ It's not directly related to the topic, but it looks to me as if the Multiport might have been given some Multi-Mac capability while I wasn't looking. I wish I'd bought one now, I included the links because they might be interesting to others. MultiPort Review-MacUser - 4.5 Mice
http://www.svbus.com/reviewmuser.pdf MultiPort User's Guide
http://www.svbus.com/MultiPortUG.pdf jt
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader
USA
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2002 : 09:45:42
Hey JT! Good to see you over there on the AppleFritter Foprums, I think you'll like it there. Lots of hardware-hacking maniacs! Don't forget to check out all the galleries, which I see you already started to do.666th poster to the
68K Macintosh Liberation Army Forums
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
Visit my site! |
candyPunk
Full Member
USA
856 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2002 : 19:19:56
quote:
If some reckless company did ever make such a thing as a Nubus USB card, it would only work on Nubus PPC's running 8.1 or higher (but preferably 8.6).
I was really bored one day and i read a bunch of the OS 8.0 installer notes and it mentioned Firewire, much to my surprise! I don't remember exactly what was said, but the sheer fact that something was said about its compatibility and existance at that point in time makes me think that 8.1 wouldn't be necessary for firewire, but that 8.0 could find a way. I sure don't know much about the techinical side of mac hardware and all, but if you had a pci PPC, I bet you could get that firewire card fired up with 8.0. Maybe I'm sounding like an idiot *yet again* but I thought I'd share something I picked up that one day.
{ candyPunk }
{ Captain of Observation, 68k MLA }
{ Macs liberated: 6 }
{ My baby: Q660av }
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Marchie
Chaplain
USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2002 : 12:02:25
Personally, I've been doing research on how to make a Nintendo Powerglove work with the Mac OS.If only the Finder would use InputSprockets... ~Marchie ~Chaplain Marchie
68k Macintosh Liberation Army ~~"We are all Mad here."~~ |
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2002 : 12:37:01
quote:
Personally, I've been doing research on how to make a Nintendo Powerglove work with the Mac OS.If only the Finder would use InputSprockets...
I thought there was a hack done for that several years back, or is this a new version of the glove. Could have been for w******s, I have a lot of fun bashing the PC, but I've loved to hate'em since day one, so it might have been a PC hack. If so, swap win for mac in your searches and find out if there's info on another approach to the problem.
jt
p.s. might try amiga too, now that i think of it, THOSE guy are nuts.
p.p.s. if yours is a new usb a/o wireless glove, look into an I/O path wedge into the -?- controller, wherever you can find/force open chink in the armor: insert thin blade, twist, loot (traditional hardware method, simple but effective).
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2002 : 18:49:51
quote:
Hey JT! Good to see you over there on the AppleFritter Forums, I think you'll like it there. Lots of hardware-hacking maniacs!
How right you were, cine'. I thought I'd bring this discussion back home from 'fritter. Rediscovered some info and tracked it back to the link.Re: USB on 68k's, the Endless Quest
« Reply #15 on: January 27th, 2002, 4:33pm » Same atuff, different platform, example ready to rock in the Wintel world, "all source code and schematics are downloadable for your experimentation". download (12 pages, I'll bet this guy's book is killer) and check it out:
http://www.usb-by-example.com/Examples/DevicePC.pdf This is an intel engineer's twist on doing the same type of conversion I had proposed as the only way to get "USB" on a 68k (even my beloved PB100), you gotta turn it into something the poor critter can deal with. A parallel to serial converter would probably allow his converter to interface with a 68k serial port, a generic 2-way box, I've got one, I'm pretty sure the printer adapters won't work, last I checked they were one-way just like the ADB-USB converters that I checked out.......... happy hacking
jt
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USB on Quadra 610?
68k of the Week: kastegir's PowerBook 180.