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SE/30 Project: Music Server

Author	Topic
Solarblast Starting Member United Kingdom 9 Posts	Posted - 25 Feb 2003 : 12:11:08 Right. I have a pretty good spec SE/30 which is on the internet (though I'm posting this from work). It's got 16mb of memory, and an 80mb hard disk. I run system 7.1. I also have a vintage Bang & Olufsen sound system, which is need of a sound source. Ah ha! I think. So, I'm thinking I buy an external SCSI drive off of Ebay (£15 or so), and an ****-off big SCSI hard drive for the mac. I then encode a chunk of CDS in AIFF format (no compression), and get the MAC to stream them to the Hi-Fi. I'll be able to fit 20 or so CD's on a 18gb SCSI drive, so that's ok. I'll have things like Kraftwerk, the Orb, and early Afex Twin - just to add to the retro-tech of it all. So the questions are: 1) The Hard Drive: How easy will it be to fit, and will it be possible to copy across what I currently have on the hard drive to the new one. What should I look for / watch out for with second hand SCSI drives. 2) The CD-ROM drive: Can I get a modern SCSI-2 drive and fit it in? I'll keep y'all posted as to how it goes.
foetoid Full Member USA 554 Posts	Posted - 25 Feb 2003 : 13:44:06 You want to mount the external drive inside the case? Or did I read wrong? Anyhow, 7.1 won't recognize all 18gigs at once. It breaks them up into something like 4 gig partitions. If the SE/30 could run 8.1 it would see the whole thing just fine. It has to do with HFS and HFS+ formatting and stuff like that. I no nothing about second hand HDs, so I can't help you there, but someone else will be along soon with an answer to that question. Good luck with your project and welcome to the 68kmla! ________________ foetoid, that's (fee-toy-duh) http://www.foetoid.doesntexist.com
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 25 Feb 2003 : 13:56:21 Welcome aboard! The controller is SCSI I (and slow at that) but you CAN hack it to fit a CD internally: http://www.stuartbell.dsl.pipex.com/PowerCC/SE30CD/SE30CD.html A bigger HDD is not really a problem, but I don't understand what you mean by streaming music to your stereo. Are you talking about playing the AIFFs from the SE/30? Playing Stereo AIFFs on my Duo 230 test rig via the Sound Accelerator II card in the Dock is sloooooooooow. SE/30 will be half that speed and I don't think it's even stereo, I doubt it. IIRC, the IIsi was the first stereo capable Mac. Good luck! jt . Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF Edited by - Trash80toG-4 on 25 Feb 2003 14:00:03
Jobf Junior Member United Kingdom 162 Posts	Posted - 25 Feb 2003 : 14:13:11 What I think is meant is he will buy an external CD-ROM drive. Buy an internal hard disk and encode the CD's to the hard disk using the external CD drive. (Would the SE/30 be able to handle encoding the files? If so, wouldn't it take ages?) quote: but I don't understand what you mean by streaming music to your stereo. Are you talking about playing the AIFFs from the Se/30? Dunno if it's even stereo out tho, I doubt it, IIRC, the IIsi was the first stereo capable Mac Yeh I was wondering this. Also, you'd have to sit in front of the Mac and press 'play' wouldn't you? Aren't you just as well playing the CD's from the CD drive and using the 18gb drive for something else? :) Also, Solar - respect for the tunes that you want to put on it! :) ==== Steve/Jobf ===== Lisa 2, LC475, PB145b, PB160, PB540c, IIsi.
QuadraJets Junior Member USA 344 Posts	Posted - 25 Feb 2003 : 15:16:46 quote: Playing Stereo AIFFs on my Duo 230 test rig via the Sound Accelerator II card in the Dock is sloooooooooow SE/30 shouldn't have any problems playing AIFF files. Back when my IIci was my main computer, I had the hard drive full of 8 bit 22250khz stereo AIFF music. I could listen to music, use ICQ, and browse the net all at a (then) decent speed. You might as well not play anything besides 8 bit, 22250khz though, since anything of better quality just downsamples to that (or even 22050khz) anyhow. Artillery Commander/Engineer, 68kMLA Liberated: LCII , III+, IIci, Q700, 800, and 840av, P550, 410 Contraband: Beige G3/300 MT o/c 400mhz, (2) 6100's Keeper of the 68kmla Hotline mirror server: 68k.dyndns.org
Clinton Full Member USA 700 Posts	Posted - 25 Feb 2003 : 23:43:27 1) werent there SE/30 PDS sound cards? 2) no linkage at this point, but did anyone see the Gamba page on 4 cards in an se/30 3) can we say accellerator card? 4) rip your Aphex Twin CD for me :) 5) I post in itemized lists ;) to quote SuSE Linux, Have A Lot Of Fun (-: CCC Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Q650, a Q660AV, and a MacII Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, a PM 8600/300, and a PM8500/180 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e
Solarblast Starting Member United Kingdom 9 Posts	Posted - 26 Feb 2003 : 03:05:07 What a great response. This is a truly fantastic forum. A little oasis of geeky loveliness. Jobf has it spot on: I buy an external CD drive, and a large internal hard-drive. I encode the CD's to the hard drive using some form of ripper. Jobf isn't very helpful with his eminently sensible suggestion of controling an external CD with the mac, since if I'm going to be sensible I might as well just buy a boom box for £100 and have done with it. Quadrajets: the SE/30 isn't quite a IIci, are you sure it'll handle it? And for anyone who wants it, I'm planning to use the files found here: http://www.umich.edu/~archive/mac/sound/soundutil/ Thanks a lot for all your help. As I said, I'll keep you posted on the progress!
Jobf Junior Member United Kingdom 162 Posts	Posted - 26 Feb 2003 : 03:18:50 quote: Jobf isn't very helpful with his eminently sensible suggestion of controling an external CD with the mac, since if I'm going to be sensible I might as well just buy a boom box for £100 and have done with it. Haha, my apologies! But as Trash says, the output from the SE/30 is mono, so you wouldn't be getting the best out of your B&O! If you do get it working, 'Selected Ambient Works 85-92' should be the first CD you rip! ==== Steve/Jobf ===== Lisa 2, LC475, PB145b, PB160, PB540c, IIsi.
Solarblast Starting Member United Kingdom 9 Posts	Posted - 26 Feb 2003 : 04:52:25 So, the SE/30 has a 4 chanel, 8bit STEREO dac. It also has a stereo mini-jack on the back (says Lowendmac.com). So that's OK. Though I'm not sure if I'll rip Ambient Works or Man Machine. I'd quite like to see my mac bash out "We are the robots" in a slightly grainy low-fi way.
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 26 Feb 2003 : 07:49:13 quote: So, the SE/30 has a 4 chanel, 8bit STEREO dac. It also has a stereo mini-jack on the back (says Lowendmac.com). So that's OK. Though I'm not sure if I'll rip Ambient Works or Man Machine. I'd quite like to see my mac bash out "We are the robots" in a slightly grainy low-fi way. Woot! When you're right, you're right! The A(bominable)pple Sound Chip only mixes the channels together for the internal speaker, they're separate at the sound output jack which is indeed STEREO! I think stereo-in might have been what was introduced on the IIsi, dunno, can't win 'em all! You'll have some trouble with the slower 16MHz clock on the proc and lack of cache as opposed to the IIci, but your output will be stereo! jt ™. Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF
oldmacman Full Member USA 713 Posts	Posted - 01 Mar 2003 : 21:15:49 The IIsi was the first Mac to have a built-in sound input. Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180 PCs liberated from Windoze: 3
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 02 Mar 2003 : 00:08:12 what is weird is that being after the IIsi, the IIfx, as I hear didn't have sound in... making the IIsi and IIvi and VX the only of the Mac II series with sound in... the IIvi and IIvx aren't as much macII machines as they could be though.... Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
Solarblast Starting Member United Kingdom 9 Posts	Posted - 03 Mar 2003 : 04:37:10 UPDATE: So, I got the load of MP3 players and converters downloaded, and none (but none) of them work with System 7.0.1 - they either need drag and drop or sound manager 3.1. I've downloaded both, but when I swop in finder 7.1.3 to replace my old finder, I crash each time I try and startup. Sound manager 3.1 just doesn't seem to load on startup (I think it needs system 7.1, as does finder 7.1.3). So, I need to upgrade to 7.5.3 (and then 7.5.5). I'm petrified that I'll lose all the lovley 68k goodness I have on my computer, and don't want to download it all again at 14.4k. So, any hints on installing 7.5.3 on top of 7.0.1 without having to wipe the hard disk? Or is this just not possible. d.
loopsi Starting Member Australia 4 Posts	Posted - 03 Mar 2003 : 04:43:13 Really, why bother? 22khz, 8 bit sounds really crappy - especially over a real stereo system. Unless you can find a 16 bit, 44khz sound card, I wouldn't bother. A good compression to use is IMA 4:1 - it doesn't seem to use much CPU time, and you can't really hear it unless you listen hard. Better than µlaw or mace, anyway. ps. Hi dana! I'm on here now :)
Clinton Full Member USA 700 Posts	Posted - 03 Mar 2003 : 18:01:12 Why do it?? the motto of the MLA 'CAUSE WE CAN DO IT WITH A 68K!!!! Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Q650, a Q660AV, and a MacII Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, a PM 8600/300, and a PM8500/180 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 03 Mar 2003 : 19:42:39 quote: Why do it?? the motto of the MLA 'CAUSE WE CAN DO IT WITH A 68K!!!! Criminy! Don't shout at new recruits! :rolleyes: Welcome to the 68kMLA, loopsi, any friend of dana's is going to fit in just fine around here! jt ™. Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF
Solarblast Starting Member United Kingdom 9 Posts	Posted - 19 Mar 2003 : 05:17:28 quote: Really, why bother? 22khz, 8 bit sounds really crappy - especially over a real stereo system. Unless you can find a 16 bit, 44khz sound card, I wouldn't bother. A good compression to use is IMA 4:1 - it doesn't seem to use much CPU time, and you can't really hear it unless you listen hard. Better than µlaw or mace, anyway. ps. Hi dana! I'm on here now :) Just an SE/30, but I love it.
FuDHuD Starting Member USA 12 Posts	Posted - 07 Apr 2003 : 17:47:31 quote: So, the SE/30 has a 4 chanel, 8bit STEREO dac. It also has a stereo mini-jack on the back (says Lowendmac.com). So that's OK. Though I'm not sure if I'll rip Ambient Works or Man Machine. I'd quite like to see my mac bash out "We are the robots" in a slightly grainy low-fi way. Okay, so I'm new and am replying to a month-and-a-half old forum submission, but... Man! I'm trying to get a hold of an SE/30 to do the same exact thing!! I wanted to create a Kraftwerk/30 (invented the name just now, can you tell?). All their albums ready to play at any moment, pumping out the grain! Trans-Europe Express on a compact? It just seems to fit...perfectly! Anyhow, I saw this and HAD to reply. Cheers to you and your conquest - let us know if you succeed, FuDHuD Monochronies Unite!
Solarblast Starting Member United Kingdom 9 Posts	Posted - 23 Apr 2003 : 03:20:25 Well, the only way to do it is to rip from the CD to AIFF. Anything else the SE/30 struggles with just a bit too much. AIFF files end up being qutie large (though not so large after all the downsampling). The conclusion is that early Aphex Twin sounds just fine with the grainiess, but Kraftwerk lose out. You might think they're lo-fi techno, but you really lose the clarity. Tracks like Neon Lights just don't cut it at 22khz on 8 bit. So, with much sadness, I've decided to turn the SE/30 to web design. Using BBEdit 4, Spell Tools, Fetch, and the Tidy BBEdit plug-in, I've re-designed my vanity website for displaying on the SE/30. I've had to learn to hand-code HTML (not all that hard, especially for a site so simple). The initial results are http://www.stallibrass.net. Thanks for your help, guys, but the SE/30 music server just can't, as yet, cut it. Still looking out for sound boards on EBay, but I don't fancy my chances.... Just an SE/30, but I love it.
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 26 Apr 2003 : 03:11:13 heyl... web design on an SE/30 would make a great article for the MLAgazine... I can see it now "real macs, real people, real uses" Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide
Very_Itchy_Rash Starting Member USA 6 Posts	Posted - 06 May 2003 : 15:26:52 quote: heyl... web design on an SE/30 would make a great article for the MLAgazine... I can see it now "real macs, real people, real uses" Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide HTML design is simple and easy, especially on an SE30, and right down, if you dare - a Mac Plus. HTML Serving... that another question, and yes- doable. Many programs out there that can do it, and rather nicely. the only minor problem is to get a decent conenction to the 'net with a fixed IP. There are Mac sites out there that i can remember: one a Mac Plus and another on am SE... No Java, No Shockwave, No PHP... cause all that is not really necessary to run a decent Mac server serving Mac web-pages. :)
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 06 May 2003 : 20:11:04 hehe... I was thinking that my IIsi with A/UX might do PHP... small and slow but cool! Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide "I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life"
Solarblast Starting Member United Kingdom 9 Posts	Posted - 08 May 2003 : 10:41:11 quote: heyl... web design on an SE/30 would make a great article for the MLAgazine... I can see it now "real macs, real people, real uses" Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide If you want it... email me details at david@stallibrass.net Just an SE/30, but I love it.
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 08 May 2003 : 21:02:30 well somewhere around here there's some threads of mine that are asking for articles... of reasonable length and of valuable content is mostly what I ask Official 68k videographer Official MLA TourGuide "I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life"
jag Starting Member 22 Posts	Posted - 14 Aug 2003 : 14:57:48 Not to sound like an old curmudgeon but many people attempt to do things such as this that are just WAAAY to intensive a task for such a slow machine. After hours of wracking their brains and pulling their hair out, they finally realize this and go back to running apps that were MEANT to run on these old beasts : ) Personally, about the coolest thing you can do with 8, 16 mhz black and white macs is serve web pages (slowly) or make MIDI music (slowly) or web pages with TeachText but that's just writing simple text files, no surprise there. The bottom line: run apps that were around when your ancient Mac was around and you'll achieve success, attempt to run more recent behemoths and you'll end up with less hair and an angry mate : ) (and a VERY tired Mac) http://www.jagshouse.com - the web's oldest old Mac web site - since 1996 http://www.jagshouse.com - the web's oldest classic Mac site, used Mac goodies for sale.

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