| Author |
Topic |
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shaktiman
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1226 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2003 : 13:36:47
From a knew os what would I ask?a largely single tasking os with handshake multitasking, ie:- accessories/Apple menu items so when 1 program wants to use the cpu it checks with the other program first. In short, stability. a fully functional file selector. I would urge anyone looking to write a new os to look at Selectric from the Atari ST platform. Once you try it I am confident that you would see why I say this. I suggest downloading Gemulator & running Selectric & sort your pc drives out. Gemulator runs on a pc. If you have another st emulator all well & good but Gemulator aimed not to be a true emulator, but to be better than an origional st & it succeded in spades. Apple os has the "desktop" as though it were another program & performance degrades if you are running other apps. I can't abide this if nothing else an os runs on its ability to sort files & the desktop must allways have full attention. Pastel shades on the desktop. I like the look & feel of mac os 8.1 & it is so much easier on the eyes, though even this is a little "busy" compared with Gem.(you can download Gem for pc) I would have the new os written with support for the 68060 cpu. Mac was clever to have Mac & then Mac binary. anewos could have a wider ranging support for files from different platforms. shaktiman Quadra 840av, prettymuchmaxedout8xcd drive,3 monitors 15" & 14" & 14" os 8.1
, 12 meg ram, 500 meg hard drive
Performa400(asleepintheattick) |
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2003 : 14:21:29
There are enough O.S. choices to make me crazy already (ok, ino . . . bring on episodes  . . . you know what I mean!  )Why worry about new features, the machines left in the dust and the new crop of bugs are going to be more than enough to take the enjoyment out of any new O.S.!  jt  ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF |
Gothikon
Full Member
Australia
537 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2003 : 16:38:59
Does anyone understand how to difficult it is to build a new OS?And if anyone is thinking of taking on this project why not start with something like BeOS, I believe it is now OpenBeOS or something. This seems to have most of the things people are asking for, runs well on a 604e etc etc. Pastel desktops, PASTEL DESKTOPS have you tried the appearance control panel??? Support for more file formats, well thats up to the application developers at the end of the day. Shak have you tried Graphic converter? It can open pretty much anything you throw at it. There are 68k PPC and OS X versions for download. If you mean text files get Mac Link Plus. It was bundled with a lot of machines. I think if you install ClarisWorks 3 from a Performa restore CD you'll get it, there are other ways though A single tasking OS?????? Why do we want to go back to single tasking With handshaking? As I understand it what you are asking for is what OS X does. Prior to that the Mac OS was awful at multi tasking. Can you please explain what the file selector does? Is it for arranging your files or linking them to applications for opening? Why must sorting files on the desktop have full attention over everything else? AND when you have true multitasking it should have anyway. Shak how much time do you spend sorting files on the desktop If you keep your desktop tidy, i don't have much more than icons for the HD, Downloads, Trash and Documents, it is a very clean interface. Maybe the Atari just had fewer options To the Shaktiman, sometimes I beleive the only thing that would make you happy is a time machine. Then you could go back and make sure Atari never made any of the of the fatal mistakes that ultimately led to their demise
p.s. I was playing with the smilies, has anyone on this board ever used the kisses?
--------
LC 2, LC 3, Q605, Perf 638, Colour Classic (160 603e) 6100, 7200, PTP 225 (Quad 604), PM 9600, G4 Cube |
~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit
Australia
2822 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2003 : 18:38:01
quote:
To the Shaktiman, sometimes I beleive the only thing that would make you happy is a time machine. Then you could go back and make sure Atari never made any of the of the fatal mistakes that ultimately led to their demise
I get that impression sometimes, too.
You know those people from failed platforms with all their wierd file types whcih they can't open?  ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
|
cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms
USA
4679 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2003 : 18:46:33
all great ideas... cats and I were going to make a WM for Darwin, but then llamaboy wanted to make an OS, we found out and cats and llama and I are going to make an OS  Official 68k videographer |
shaktiman
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1226 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 06:41:15
quote:
There are enough O.S. choices to make me crazy already (ok, ino . . . bring on episodes . . . you know what I mean! ) Why worry about new features, the machines left in the dust and the new crop of bugs are going to be more than enough to
take the enjoyment out of any new O.S.!
I was specifically refering to anewos with 68k macs in mind, so this would be able to run on a very early apple right up to 68040 macs & with the os rewritten(rom an-all) then support for 68060 could be incorporated. quote:
Does anyone understand how to difficult it is to build a new OS?
No I dont know specifically how difficult it is to write an os, but the starting with BeOs or similar is a very good point & I would refer my right honourable friends to "Gem" which although development is sporadic has got people who are continuing to add/change it(Gem for the pc)
Support for more file formats, well thats up to the application developers at the end of the day. Shak have you tried Graphic
converter? It can open pretty much anything you throw at it. There are 68k PPC and OS X versions for download. quote:
Yes Graphic convertor is not too bad an application to say the least.(mine wont run anymore for some reason, keeps having error -0, I guess I'll have to re-download) One thing I forgot to add was support for more memory, I'm thinking 1 gig of ram available on an 840av.
quote:
Can you please explain what the file selector does? Is it for arranging your files or linking them to applications for opening?
Probably easier for you to see than for me to explain, but here is an explanation of the file selector "Selectric" Enables file management without having to resort to the "desktop" nor having to open up seperate applications. With Selectric there is support for different screen sizes, so if you have a good size display you can have perhaps 25 files displayed in the file selector window, furthermore you can sort the files by date, size, type. The file selector provides the name of the file,then the type, then the size, then the date stamp. You can see "at a glance" what the files are that your looking at. You can "call" the file selector, from the desktop or from within a running application. Have we never been running Graphic convertor, found a sound file and wanted to move it to your "sounds" folder but had to go via the desktop, which is running very slow as there is little system resource allocated as system resource is being used for Graphic convertor. With Selectric you find the file, copy/cut the file and paste it to where you would like it to reside. Intelligent path remembering, this is featured in mac os 8.1, but is clumsy and you can only remember one path, so lets say I am in directory, 4.8gig(drive)/photos/familypics/holiday/canaryislands/wife1.tiff but I wish to switch quickly to directory apple(drive)/computerpics/68ks/Applemacquadra840av.img Selectric "remembers" multiple paths and is not so application restrictive as the file selector featured in mac os 8.1 You can also use masking so that you can decide only to view .tiff files or .mov files etc. You can with Selectric "touch" files and therefore change file attributes such as name/date/extension. Sometimes you can "force" a program to load a file by changing it's extension, ie:- your app Videoplry wont load .avi files, change the file extension to .mov and the program tries to load it(with this example the success is in doubt but there are times when this has definitly worked for me with various other programs file types)
quote:
Shak how much time do you spend sorting files on the desktop
With Apple os? not bloody much as it is such a miserable chore. When I took a course to gain NVQ level 2, using computers, we were asked to use pc's to sort files via "explorer" I objected as I wanted to use the desktop. I was given the task of camparing both methods. My first question is why should you have to drain system resources by using a program such as explorer when you should have this resource to hand. Using the desktop is quicker and has less of an impact on the system, when using Windows or TOS. I passed the course! File manipulation is the b all and end all to computer use, without it you would have no work to save or load. A comprehensive filing system is paramount to "my personal computer needs" quote:
If you keep your desktop tidy, i don't have much more than icons for the HD, Downloads, Trash and Documents, it is a very
clean interface.
I try very hard to keep my Apple desktop tidy & find it difficult. Netscape has been a big problem for me because it just keeps dumping files onto the desktop, besides which "any" program I have used on the mac to try & locate/create a directory for a file to go into is very very tedious. Then you need to have your apps on the desktop. My TOS/GEM desktop was very tidy. I would use command, and then the letter of the drive I wanted and that drive would open up. A few folder Aliases were on the desktop ie: Graphic programs/ sound prgs/ video prgs/ wordprocessor prgs/ archiving prgs. I am still struggling with file association on my mac. I am still getting the "the program that created the file cannot be found". quote:
Maybe the Atari just had fewer options
Lol & do you consider cavemen to be "stupider" than modern man?
Have you considered that having less options could be beneficial?
If you have a thousand options how do you find & choose the one that is right for you?
For me the beuaty of TOS/GEM was the simplicity. I found it to be a clearer system.
quote:
To the Shaktiman, sometimes I beleive the only thing that would make you happy is a time machine. Then you could go back
and make sure Atari never made any of the of the fatal mistakes that ultimately led to their demise
I think Gothikon has hit the preverbial nail on the head. I would without a doubt "impose" a few TOS/GEM(Graphics Environment Manager) attributes over the mac desktop. I am trying to encourage implementation of that "old fashioned" format. I am not as "Atari" loyal as I sound, if Apple were to provide me with an efficient computer os then I would be very happy. If you took TOS/GEM & could run it on Mac with support for Mac apps then yes that would be an amazing thing to have. If that product was offered to me tommorow I would shell out £200 or so to buy it. Also if that product was made available then we would have more chance of support for 68060 & extra memory. gothikon has given me some food for thought and I will be attempting to make strides in:-
quote:
If you mean text files get Mac Link Plus. It was bundled with a lot of machines. I think if you install ClarisWorks 3 from a
Performa restore CD you'll get it, there are other ways though
quote:
If you keep your desktop tidy, i don't have much more than icons for the HD, Downloads, Trash and Documents, it is a very
clean interface.
 When I view my posts they are formatted, but when I just used preview my post appeared without returns. How do they appear to others? shaktiman Quadra 840av, prettymuchmaxedout8xcd drive,3 monitors 15" & 14" & 14" os 8.1
, 12 meg ram, 500 meg hard drive
Performa400(asleepintheattick) |
cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms
USA
4679 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 07:38:03
your posts appeaqr good... isn't TOS the OS that comes with the atari ST machines? because that's almost exactly like the MacOS one of my friends, has an ST 1024... it's a 5 or 87 MHx 68000 machine it looks exactlyt like the MacOS does... the reason the desktop is tidy, is becahse he doesn't have a hard drive.... and it's a slow machine anyway......I keep my destkop organized... or did on the iMac, files I was working with regularly, or folders of them would stay on the desktop, archived files would stay inside other folders inside my "master folder" of documents "cory's documents" software installers and manuals that I've downloaded, stayed in a folder called "ImfoBOX files" which was the 7300.... it's files go onto every mac I have we were going to write an OS for PC and PCI macs... this would have been if we'd based it on Darwin... butwhat would happen lately... we're probably going to use a BSD... shak... to you like OS/4 Warp 4??? we were trying to base our OS on as recent clone of NeXTStep... this is what may be known as a "dekstopless" system, where all of your files are organized, BYTHE OS, in a "home folder" of course, I took my folder structure from the iMac and put that on the Ti8Book without using the home folder too much.... shak: do you keep your applications seperate of documents? this is one of windows 3.1's evil features... most people store documents with the applications... Official 68k videographer |
shaktiman
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1226 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 10:24:36
quote:
isn't TOS the OS that comes with the atari ST machines?
Yes & yes they are very slow & usually no hard drive. Use Gemulator on a pc to run TOS it then runs at 75% of the pc's cpu. Atari ST's on the hardware side were dire. quote:
68000 machine it looks exactlyt like the MacOS does... the
reason the desktop is tidy, is becahse he doesn't have a hard drive.... and it's a slow machine anyway......
68000 machine running at 8MHz. looks very similar to mac & Apple did take them to court over that fact. It is true to say that no hard drive & slow machine is going to be tidier. I gtg post again later SAF!!!!! shaktiman Quadra 840av, prettymuchmaxedout8xcd drive,3 monitors 15" & 14" & 14" os 8.1
, 12 meg ram, 500 meg hard drive
Performa400(asleepintheattick) |
catsdorule
Senior Member
Canada
1627 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 15:12:42
I know cory and me are doing a os project along with 5 others.-danny
You! What PLANET is this!
-- McCoy, "The City on the Edge of Forever", stardate 3134.0
-------
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
68k Macs Liberated: 3 |
Gothikon
Full Member
Australia
537 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 15:26:33
quote:
I was specifically refering to anewos with 68k macs in mind, so this would be able to run on a very early apple right up to 68040 macs & with the os rewritten(rom an-all) then support for 68060 could be incorporated.
I doubt there is much chance of that happening at some point the difference in cost between say a machine with a 68040 and a 603 is so small there is no point in using older hardware.
quote:
Yes Graphic convertor is not too bad an application to say the least.(mine wont run anymore for some reason, keeps having error -0, I guess I'll have to re-download)
Try throwing out the preferences, failing that I like to keep copies of the original installers just in case or if I need to give a copy to someone else, obviously disk space may become a problem for some. Perhaps you should look in to something like a CD burner before you get a new machine. I am sure you could pick up an external SCSI 4x burner for well under 50 UKP. Something like this is always handy to have around for backing things up and giving files to other people. It could also easily be transferred to another machine. Or you could hook it up to your performa as a temporary and easy way to transfer files.
quote:
One thing I forgot to add was support for more memory, I'm thinking 1 gig of ram available on an 840av.
Things like that are usually hardware limitations. It is often possible to use larger memory chips than Apple says you can however. For instance no one was expecting 64MB SIMMs when the Q605 was out but it is now know that they are compatible. quote:
<snip> Enables file management without having to resort to the "desktop" nor having to open up seperate applications. <snip>
If the desktop were made well enough selectric would be unecessary. It also appears that selectric is in fact a seperate App? Some of the features mentioned, particularly for reasociating files are available. I think it's snitch (or super get info?) that allows you to change a files creator and type using the get info window. quote:
Have we never been running Graphic convertor, found a sound file and wanted to move it to your "sounds" folder but had to go via the desktop, which is running very slow as there is little system resource allocated as system resource is being used for Graphic convertor.
It sounds like something is whacked. As I understand it what ever application is foremost, including the finder/desktop, receives basically all the CPU time. The exception to this is when a background application is doing something e.g. photoshop is rendering a filter. If the open/save dialogue is open in graphic converter it cannot be doing anything CPU intensive, if anything and the finder should have prioity when you want do stuff with it. The only other time i found the finder particularly sluggish is when copying files. Supposedly this works in the background but you're really quicker to let it finish before attempting anything else. quote:
With Selectric you find the file, copy/cut the file and paste it to where you would like it to reside.
Something like that does have it's uses. However I am sure by the time you had found the file, copied it and pasted it in a new location, I could have done the same thing just as quickly using the desktop. quote:
Intelligent path remembering, this is featured in mac os 8.1, but is clumsy and you can only remember one path,so lets say I am in directory, 4.8gig(drive)/photos/familypics/holiday/canaryislands/wife1.tiff but I wish to switch quickly to directory apple(drive)/computerpics/68ks/Applemacquadra840av.img Selectric "remembers" multiple paths and is not so application restrictive as the file selector featured in mac os 8.1
I'm pretty sure it's from 8.5 onwards that a much improved open/save dialogue was introduced that allowed you to access favourites and swap between drives etc. I think this would fix a lot of your grumblings but isn't possible on a 68k Mac. quote:
You can also use masking so that you can decide only to view .tiff files or .mov files etc.
In any finder window click on the kind heading and it will sort the contents of the window by file type. This also works with size etc etc. quote:
You can with Selectric "touch" files and therefore change file attributes such as name/date/extension.
See further up this post. These things can be done with a seperate application. There is another program like the one I mentioned which is more powerfull but I have fogotten is's name, filebuddy! That's it, go and download it. You do thing like make this file a photoshop jpg rather than a graphic converter one. Although the 4 letter codes are a bit weird (I did read an explanation as to why claris works used bobo) it does remember the most recently used. you can also use the "make creator/type same as" and just choose a similar file. quote:
Sometimes you can "force" a program to load a file by changing it's extension, ie:- your app Videoplry wont load .avi files, change the file extension to .mov and the program tries to load it(with this example the success is in doubt but there are times when this has definitly worked for me with various other programs file types)
You can do a simillar thing by dragging and dropping a file on to an application's icon. For instance if I have an alias for photoshop on the desktop alongside a jpg made by graphic converter, I can a) double click the jpg and watch GC load, or b) drag and drop the icon on to the photoshop alias and watch photoshop load instead of the default app. quote:
Shak how much time do you spend sorting files on the desktop
quote:
With Apple os? not bloody much as it is such a miserable chore.
I think sometimes you have to accept your losses and embrace the new Many people find moving to X difficult because of the differences with OS 9. Most of the changes are made for a good reason and by adapting rather than painfully trying to do things the old way you find yourself working more efficently. I love columns view and I made a complete switch from OS 9 to X in about a day. Prior to this I had only used X on the odd occasion in the Apple store (I did always know I would find life easier in X i just had to sort out the newer hardware) quote:
My first question is why should you have to drain system resources by using a program such as explorer when you should have this resource to hand.Using the desktop is quicker and has less of an impact on the system, when using Windows or TOS.
So why use Selectric? It seems you have admitted the TOS desktop is not good enough either? It would be far easier to build an App like selectric than a new OS. Obviously this isn't going to get you 060 support but if you make a nice FAT application it will work on PPC's. Finding a PPC is going to be a lot cheaper and easier than getting someone to build a new OS or an 060 upgrade for a Mac. quote:
File manipulation is the b all and end all to computer use, without it you would have no work to save or load. A comprehensive filing system is paramount to "my personal computer needs"
I would argue that the bulk and an equally if not more so important way of looking at file manipulation is the creating of and filling these files with content. What good is having an organised pile of blank paper? quote:
I try very hard to keep my Apple desktop tidy & find it difficult. Netscape has been a big problem for me because it just keeps dumping files onto the desktop, besides which "any" program I have used on the mac to try & locate/create a directory for a file to go into is very very tedious.
Netscape only does this because you haven't taught it otherwise. I haven't used NS 4.x in a loooong time thank goodness. However there is an option in the preferences to set the default download location. Make a new folder called downloads somwhere and set NS to use this. That'll keep things much tidier. quote:
Then you need to have your apps on the desktop.
No you don't I keep all my applications in the Applications folder, nice and tidy! Then I either keep a few aliases on the desktop for say photoshop, web browser, email, GC and Applewords. Or you can just open the recent applications window, which is more useful as it adapts to your work. That way you only have to pop in to the applications folder for Apps you haven't use in ages. I suggest you play around with the Applemenu too, you do know you can add your own items and folders? I think it's glidel that also allows the dragging and dropping of tiems within menus. quote:
My TOS/GEM desktop was very tidy. I would use command, and then the letter of the drive I wanted and that drive would open up. A few folder Aliases were on the desktop ie: Graphic programs/ sound prgs/ video prgs/ wordprocessor prgs/ archiving prgs.
Apart from the command keys you can do the same on the Mac. quote:
I am still struggling with file association on my mac. I am still getting the "the program that created the file cannot be found".
A mentioned a few solutions earlier in this post. quote:
Lol & do you consider cavemen to be "stupider" than modern man?
Err, yes. Obviously I am no expert but cavemen could, hunt food, make shelter, procreate and communicate. Modern man can do all of the above, fly to the moon, create something like the internet, clone animals. New skills aren't always used for the best outcome but I am sure cavemen had fights too, albeit on a smaller scale. Anyway this could turn in to something way OT quote:
Have you considered that having less options could be beneficial?
If you have a thousand options how do you find & choose the one that is right for you?
Having more options allows me to work the way I want rather than the way the creator of the sofware imposes on me. This is a good thing as, as this post has highlighted, we all have our own way of doing things. As long as the extra options do not in some way get in the way. I do not concsider this a problem for the Mac OS. quote:
When I view my posts they are formatted, but when I just used preview my post appeared without returns. How do they appear to others?
[/quote]Apart your quoting being wonky it was fine
--------
LC 2, LC 3, Q605, Perf 638, Colour Classic (160 603e) 6100, 7200, PTP 225 (Quad 604), PM 9600, G4 Cube
|
cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms
USA
4679 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 15:26:41
what's the people count on that project? it's hard to keep track of.... I"m gotta write that letter to apple about the source to OpenSTEP :-\Official 68k videographer |
catsdorule
Senior Member
Canada
1627 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 15:30:53
quote:
quote:
I was specifically refering to anewos with 68k macs in mind, so this would be able to run on a very early apple right up to 68040 macs & with the os rewritten(rom an-all) then support for 68060 could be incorporated.
I doubt there is much chance of that happening at some point the difference in cost between say a machine with a 68040 and a 603 is so small there is no point in using older hardware.
quote:
Yes Graphic convertor is not too bad an application to say the least.(mine wont run anymore for some reason, keeps having error -0, I guess I'll have to re-download)
Try throwing out the preferences, failing that I like to keep copies of the original installers just in case or if I need to give a copy to someone else, obviously disk space may become a problem for some. Perhaps you should look in to something like a CD burner before you get a new machine. I am sure you could pick up an external SCSI 4x burner for well under 50 UKP. Something like this is always handy to have around for backing things up and giving files to other people. It could also easily be transferred to another machine. Or you could hook it up to your performa as a temporary and easy way to transfer files.
quote:
One thing I forgot to add was support for more memory, I'm thinking 1 gig of ram available on an 840av.
Things like that are usually hardware limitations. It is often possible to use larger memory chips than Apple says you can however. For instance no one was expecting 64MB SIMMs when the Q605 was out but it is now know that they are compatible. quote:
<snip> Enables file management without having to resort to the "desktop" nor having to open up seperate applications. <snip>
If the desktop were made well enough selectric would be unecessary. It also appears that selectric is in fact a seperate App? Some of the features mentioned, particularly for reasociating files are available. I think it's snitch (or super get info?) that allows you to change a files creator and type using the get info window. quote:
Have we never been running Graphic convertor, found a sound file and wanted to move it to your "sounds" folder but had to go via the desktop, which is running very slow as there is little system resource allocated as system resource is being used for Graphic convertor.
It sounds like something is whacked. As I understand it what ever application is foremost, including the finder/desktop, receives basically all the CPU time. The exception to this is when a background application is doing something e.g. photoshop is rendering a filter. If the open/save dialogue is open in graphic converter it cannot be doing anything CPU intensive, if anything and the finder should have prioity when you want do stuff with it. The only other time i found the finder particularly sluggish is when copying files. Supposedly this works in the background but you're really quicker to let it finish before attempting anything else. quote:
With Selectric you find the file, copy/cut the file and paste it to where you would like it to reside.
Something like that does have it's uses. However I am sure by the time you had found the file, copied it and pasted it in a new location, I could have done the same thing just as quickly using the desktop. quote:
Intelligent path remembering, this is featured in mac os 8.1, but is clumsy and you can only remember one path,so lets say I am in directory, 4.8gig(drive)/photos/familypics/holiday/canaryislands/wife1.tiff but I wish to switch quickly to directory apple(drive)/computerpics/68ks/Applemacquadra840av.img Selectric "remembers" multiple paths and is not so application restrictive as the file selector featured in mac os 8.1
I'm pretty sure it's from 8.5 onwards that a much improved open/save dialogue was introduced that allowed you to access favourites and swap between drives etc. I think this would fix a lot of your grumblings but isn't possible on a 68k Mac. quote:
You can also use masking so that you can decide only to view .tiff files or .mov files etc.
In any finder window click on the kind heading and it will sort the contents of the window by file type. This also works with size etc etc. quote:
You can with Selectric "touch" files and therefore change file attributes such as name/date/extension.
See further up this post. These things can be done with a seperate application. There is another program like the one I mentioned which is more powerfull but I have fogotten is's name, filebuddy! That's it, go and download it. You do thing like make this file a photoshop jpg rather than a graphic converter one. Although the 4 letter codes are a bit weird (I did read an explanation as to why claris works used bobo) it does remember the most recently used. you can also use the "make creator/type same as" and just choose a similar file. quote:
Sometimes you can "force" a program to load a file by changing it's extension, ie:- your app Videoplry wont load .avi files, change the file extension to .mov and the program tries to load it(with this example the success is in doubt but there are times when this has definitly worked for me with various other programs file types)
You can do a simillar thing by dragging and dropping a file on to an application's icon. For instance if I have an alias for photoshop on the desktop alongside a jpg made by graphic converter, I can a) double click the jpg and watch GC load, or b) drag and drop the icon on to the photoshop alias and watch photoshop load instead of the default app. quote:
Shak how much time do you spend sorting files on the desktop
quote:
With Apple os? not bloody much as it is such a miserable chore.
I think sometimes you have to accept your losses and embrace the new Many people find moving to X difficult because of the differences with OS 9. Most of the changes are made for a good reason and by adapting rather than painfully trying to do things the old way you find yourself working more efficently. I love columns view and I made a complete switch from OS 9 to X in about a day. Prior to this I had only used X on the odd occasion in the Apple store (I did always know I would find life easier in X i just had to sort out the newer hardware) quote:
My first question is why should you have to drain system resources by using a program such as explorer when you should have this resource to hand.Using the desktop is quicker and has less of an impact on the system, when using Windows or TOS.
So why use Selectric? It seems you have admitted the TOS desktop is not good enough either? It would be far easier to build an App like selectric than a new OS. Obviously this isn't going to get you 060 support but if you make a nice FAT application it will work on PPC's. Finding a PPC is going to be a lot cheaper and easier than getting someone to build a new OS or an 060 upgrade for a Mac. quote:
File manipulation is the b all and end all to computer use, without it you would have no work to save or load. A comprehensive filing system is paramount to "my personal computer needs"
I would argue that the bulk and an equally if not more so important way of looking at file manipulation is the creating of and filling these files with content. What good is having an organised pile of blank paper? quote:
I try very hard to keep my Apple desktop tidy & find it difficult. Netscape has been a big problem for me because it just keeps dumping files onto the desktop, besides which "any" program I have used on the mac to try & locate/create a directory for a file to go into is very very tedious.
Netscape only does this because you haven't taught it otherwise. I haven't used NS 4.x in a loooong time thank goodness. However there is an option in the preferences to set the default download location. Make a new folder called downloads somwhere and set NS to use this. That'll keep things much tidier. quote:
Then you need to have your apps on the desktop.
No you don't I keep all my applications in the Applications folder, nice and tidy! Then I either keep a few aliases on the desktop for say photoshop, web browser, email, GC and Applewords. Or you can just open the recent applications window, which is more useful as it adapts to your work. That way you only have to pop in to the applications folder for Apps you haven't use in ages. I suggest you play around with the Applemenu too, you do know you can add your own items and folders? I think it's glidel that also allows the dragging and dropping of tiems within menus. quote:
My TOS/GEM desktop was very tidy. I would use command, and then the letter of the drive I wanted and that drive would open up. A few folder Aliases were on the desktop ie: Graphic programs/ sound prgs/ video prgs/ wordprocessor prgs/ archiving prgs.
Apart from the command keys you can do the same on the Mac. quote:
I am still struggling with file association on my mac. I am still getting the "the program that created the file cannot be found".
A mentioned a few solutions earlier in this post. quote:
Lol & do you consider cavemen to be "stupider" than modern man?
Err, yes. Obviously I am no expert but cavemen could, hunt food, make shelter, procreate and communicate. Modern man can do all of the above, fly to the moon, create something like the internet, clone animals. New skills aren't always used for the best outcome but I am sure cavemen had fights too, albeit on a smaller scale. Anyway this could turn in to something way OT quote:
Have you considered that having less options could be beneficial?
If you have a thousand options how do you find & choose the one that is right for you?
Having more options allows me to work the way I want rather than the way the creator of the sofware imposes on me. This is a good thing as, as this post has highlighted, we all have our own way of doing things. As long as the extra options do not in some way get in the way. I do not concsider this a problem for the Mac OS. quote:
When I view my posts they are formatted, but when I just used preview my post appeared without returns. How do they appear to others?
Apart your quoting being wonky it was fine
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LC 2, LC 3, Q605, Perf 638, Colour Classic (160 603e) 6100, 7200, PTP 225 (Quad 604), PM 9600, G4 Cube
[/quote]
Yikes that post is long.
-danny
You! What PLANET is this!
-- McCoy, "The City on the Edge of Forever", stardate 3134.0
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68k Macintosh Liberation Army
68k Macs Liberated: 3 |
cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms
USA
4679 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 15:43:37
WHATALONGPOST!!!!!!I usually keep my icons in columns... aliases to apps, files I'm working on, folders I'm using, and the column on the right, of the stuff the system puts there, or waiting to be sorted... I'll have a destkop pic that utilises mostly the space where I have no icons Official 68k videographer |
Gothikon
Full Member
Australia
537 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 02:25:21
Yes it was a long post.So there was no need for you to quote the entire thing
I suggest you or Mod goes back and edits that post! There really is no need to duplicate mine! I also meant to add that the BeOS tracker/desktop/file manager is better and has a lot of useful features whilst remaining easy to use. Although this would make Shak happy there is not a lot of software for it. Even less when you consider that most is for the intel version of BeOS. --------
LC 2, LC 3, Q605, Perf 638, Colour Classic (160 603e) 6100, 7200, PTP 225 (Quad 604), PM 9600, G4 Cube |
shaktiman
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1226 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 07:14:28
This argument between me & goth is really going nowhere. I think that I am not making myself clear & that goth(maybe even intentionally) is missunderstanding me. I am very happy to challenge anyone to a speed dual over file management. A race against:- An Apple mac & an equivilantly powered pc running Gemulator. I got myself an external cdwriter, but the power supply has died:-( I do understand the missunderstanding (?) I understand that moving from st to pc was a killer & I thought I had enough experience to move onto Apple but it has proved an uphill struggle. I did avoid using Windows on the pc & used Gemulator as a tool in it's own right(then I could see all the "invisible" files that pc's make). My Apple mac is just slow, though I am going to try downloading os 7.5.5 to get a bit better speed. My post really wasn't intended to be negative, rather a what could be done better. I know cory is planning an os but am not sure that I could be happy with what he wanted in that os. I just hope that someone reads this post & thinks "I'll try that" or "that would be a good feature". I truly don't expect this os to come about(the one I want) but maybe something similar will come about and maybe I will learn to love that. Jeez dont we all despise the sisters? shaktiman Quadra 840av, prettymuchmaxedout8xcd drive,3 monitors 15" & 14" & 14" os 8.1
, 12 meg ram, 500 meg hard drive
Performa400(asleepintheattick) |
Gothikon
Full Member
Australia
537 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 01:25:38
About the CD burner you have two options, chuck in in the 840's case, or look in a PC shop, the last one I went to in the UK had external SCSI cases for 20 UKP.Have you ever done anything like defrag the 840's HD run Norton or anything? I've bee using a Q605 which is slower a lot lately and it's pretty zippy running 7.6.1 it only has 12 MB of RAM. It has to be said that 68k Macs are pretty slow on the internet. This isn't helped by Netscape being an absolute dog. Either way remember you are using a pretty old machine and I'm sure your PC is a lot faster, I think you said it was resonably new. Perhaps no OS will truly satisfy you. Did you try any of the Atari Emulators on your Mac? I hope you remember the advantages of using a Mac, obviously it has *some* that are relevant to you otherwise you would still be using your Atari full time! Whilst it's file management may be more to your liking but it is certainly missing many of the features we need today. Like I said you should also look in to some of the OS enhancement programs for the Mac, there are many and I am sure you can get some of the features back you lost in the transition. I also think ou would really like the BeOS (you could install it on your PC), it's file management was radically different both above and bellow the bonnet to most if not all OS that I am aware of. I seem to recall some of the Be team are back at Apple and some day we may get some of those improvements from the BeOS file system intergrated in to the OS X. Anyway, enough, I just got back from work, of all things I have a new job in a Florist and I've been standing up all day, absolutely knacerked now --------
LC 2, LC 3, Q605, Perf 638, Colour Classic (160 603e) 6100, 7200, PTP 225 (Quad 604), PM 9600, G4 Cube |
shaktiman
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1226 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 04:07:35
Apple has one very important aspect that the ST missed, wide ranging support.Apple also built thier hardware well to which 68kmla is testamant. Atari had somthing to put it above Apple, low support. Well I have never seen a re-written Apple os, but there are a few on the ST platform. better or worse, I am just not going to argue that. Think different.
quote:
Anyway, enough, I just got back from work, of all things I have a new job in a Florist and I've been standing up all day,
absolutely knacerked now
Hope the new job goes well, do you have to know much? as in:- did you study horticulture? do you know all the latin names? do you think my yukka will live? What happend with my yukka it is in our living room near the tv & it was thriving, then my wife decided she ought to start watering it, It drooped & withered. We have cut the dead leaves of & no more watering has occured, it is starting to look a bit more promising. shaktiman Quadra 840av, prettymuchmaxedout8xcd drive,3 monitors 15" & 14" & 14" os 8.1
, 12 meg ram, 500 meg hard drive
Performa400(asleepintheattick) |
Gothikon
Full Member
Australia
537 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 22:34:36
To address the first point.Someone could take it on themselves to rewrite the Mac OS. However this would be a monumental project and they would get no help from Apple. The OS on the Atari far simpler/smaller not nearly as big a project and I imagine either source code or help was available from Atari, OR because it is realitvely simple a group of people were able to reverse engineer it. Second point. No I don't know tons about horticulture, although my parents garden won an award and my granny had a lot to do with the open garden scheme in Edinburgh in addition to being a keen gardener herself. I did work for the Royal Botanical Gardens for a while, if you ever go to the one in Edinburgh there is a "dried up river bed scene" near one of the entrances which I oversaw. At least I was the only person who had any idea what we were supposed to be doing! I did buy my parents a Yucca a long time ago though and from what I remember you aren't meant to water them that much. I'm sure I overwatered theres and had a simillar problem. --------
LC 2, LC 3, Q605, Perf 638, Colour Classic (160 603e) 6100, 7200, PTP 225 (Quad 604), PM 9600, G4 Cube |
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