Since Apple brought out OS X, it's had a mixed reaction from me. Yeah, I'm sure it's great, but to be honest and frank, I don't like Mac OS X because the GUI is too slippery and visual, and rather cumbersome. I prefer the simplicity of the Classic enviroment.

With the news that future Macintosh models are ending and essential killing the Classic OS, I was angry and upset because Apple is turning it's back on consumers that run Classic OS. Sure, there is some Classic Support in OS X, and some users may use MOL to run Classic OS, but I am faced with the final decision I no longer wish to buy a Macintosh because I don't want to run UNIX. I'd rather spend the money and get an older Mac, like the 3 WGS 6150's I just aquired, because they run Classic OS.

Is it me or is Apple leaving it's loyall customers in the dust? Even though they have started a new existance since the iMac came out, but at what cost? Remember the good old days when Macs had signatures, little easter eggs and personalities? Where has that gone?

The Mac OS has a very rich history, and Apple has always been dedicated to keeping it pure. With Apple, you don't have the same headaches on the PC, because we have more universal standards and intelligence in our products.

Many programmers and companies are not ready to ship OS X applications and some even may not release versions, leaving Apple customers in the dark. Even though Apple anounced it would delay the hardcoding of OS X into the toolkit for a while, I still am considering petitioning Apple not to end development of the Classic OS in both hardware & Software products.

Some may argue that Classic OS is old and was in need of updating or replacement. I disagree on the replacement idea. But I do agree that it is old, but it's still good. If it's not broken don't fix it, and don't throw it out.

I like my Classic OS and I don't want to lose it. I still want to buy a new Mac and be able to use Classic OS.

What is your opinion?

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Even though Apple anounced it would delay the hardcoding of OS X into the toolkit for a while, I still am considering petitioning Apple not to end development of the Classic OS in both hardware & Software products.

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~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0

OS 9 is dead...matter of fact, OS 9 shouldn't have ever existed. Apple wanted to move to a UNIX-based OS since 8.0, and although A/UX kept System 7's GUI for the most part, OSX had to update. OSX is the future, and to continue developing for Classic will only hurt Apple in the long run.

Does that mean you have to stop using OS 9? No. It runs well on current hardware and it always will. Newer hardware will need OSX. It's not a big deal...

I think the main reason for OS X is the multitasking.

The multitasking on classic is sort of similar to windows 3.x and has limitations.

Apple added a few things like the thread manager to classic but it still doesn't function like a preemptive multitasking system with threads built from the ground up like the unixes do (and Windows NT etc).

I suppose Apple could have had a Classic interface on top of the Unix multitasking but decided on a interface makeover.

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I felt the same way you did...

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Warrior maclover5
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Number of 68ks Liberated: 6

It must be a pretty simillar situation from going from a IIe to an original Macintosh with windowing! Imagine the numbers of people who said "graphics! who needs them all they do is slow us down and get in the way, command line, command line now!!!"

OS X does have a lot of fluff but it's not hard to make it look and act a lot more like 9, hide the dock, hide the toolbars on windows, make each item open in a new window etc. If you do all these things it suddenly looks a lot more like OS 9 but if you ask me you're losing a lot of the efficency.

Proper multi-tasking and the improved stability were enough to convince me! I can count the number of KP's after several months of usage on my fingers. Almost half of them were due to me running Racer which actually said it would not run on anything prior os X.2! X doesn't slow to a crawl when accessing a network. It doesn't freeze when you use the menus. You can burn CD's and rip MP3's in the background.

There are a few things I'm not so keen on though.

I'm still undecided on the pin stripes.

There is no option to set the delay between selecting a menu item and a response, in OS 9 you could make the menus blink 0 1 2 or 3 times, 0 is where it should be! X has a slight pulse and a fade out that add nothing to the experience. This one really really annoys me!

I'm concerned about the new complexity of the system. It's become much more complex than OS 9 but I'm starting to get my head around it and it'sonly a matter of time. Should I have a major problem I'm not sure I could track down the source, on the other hand I've never had a major problem and hardware stuff is no harder than before. I wish there was a crash log to english convertor though!

It has to be said though that Windows has made up a lot of lost ground. I've been playing around with the Q605 I got the other day, playing games I haven't played for years and reliving some of my early computing years. Going back to system 7 is easy, apart from hitting command-backspace all the time! It seems to me that in many ways the classic Mac OS became stagnant, with only minor tweaks and adding support for newer hardware, USB etc, but no real imporvements., what was once light years ahead is now the norm.

The change from 9 -> X was a massive leap in a short space of time, making it hard for some to swallow. From 7 onwards we should have slowly evolved towards X rather it seems like someone flipped a switch. I know there are technical reasons why this would have been hard to do but it really seems that Apple sat on their laurels and then realised they were going to need to pull a rabbit out of a hat to stay ahead. (yes i know all about copland etc, but they fumbled the ball soo many times!)

Anyway in about an hours time I'm going to be ringing my dad and walking him through the update from 9 to X. I think with Jaguars release X became ready for prime time, at least for most people. Classic can never be perfect but even for games it works remarkably well. I know peoplehave problems with Quark but apart from that it works well. Photoshop is the only classic App i still use and only because I can't afford a new version.

Citon there are plenty of Macs out there that run OS 9, you said yourself you just bought some 6150's, how many models of Mac are there between that and the dual 1.25's that still boot 9??? You can update a lot of times before you get something that can't run 9!

Apple may lose customers that die with OS 9 but there are a lot of unix/linux users that OS X will appeal to and they're already bringing their software with them.

We're going to look back in a few years time when no one complains about the speed of X on the latest hardware and wonder how we ever managed to do anything with OS 9! Have you noticed how the rumor sites have almost no talk of system updates since 10.2.2? My guess is it's because there's little to complain about now.

Edited by - gothikon on 30 Jan 2003 03:07:06

I have a LOT of the OS X history here at my house. I am missing hte original NeXTStep OS, but I have openstep, both rhapsody Dev releases, and now OS X server 1.1. IMHO, it seemed like apple had been hinting, and making public, that they were going somewhere. Sure your everyday consumer usually had no clue, but the developers had plenty of time. Anything that isn't for OS X, its because of its own laziness, or because the company is too small. (Although a LOT of single handed programmers have even converted stuff to X).

OS X has the best multitasking I have ever seen. Noted I have never used an SGI machine or the likes, but in the average consumer base, there is no OS to beat it. I have tested the limits of it, and not once has it mistreated me while doing so. 77 applications open at once is a bit much to ask of a computer, but this machine took it in stride. Granted it is fairly fast, but the OS makes it even faster.

Classic was dead and apple knew it. The OS's are based on such radically different cores however, that a simple transition would have resulted in a couple years of "dead" time. I believe the "flick of a switch" was the only way to go for such a vast improvement.

Apple seems to have, in the past 2 years or so, gone from being a litle cupertino computer company, considered to be a joke, to a serious, corporate, computing company. No more little leagues.

~The Penguin

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I don't know why, but i can't shake the feeling away that its now a different company, marketing a strange non-Macintosh beast. I felt like that even more after they got rid of the Happy Mac.

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other problems I've had, are with OSX interface, when one thinks of OSX, they think of single icons that take up more thanhalf of your screen, and one thinks of being unable to tone the obscenely large dock down a bit.

I generally am under the opinion though, that 9 is a system for 604e macs that can't successfully run MacOSX

but there have been other ways that I feel, I, and others may have been let down. Apple used to be a great peripherals manufacturer, and now has a style that would go great with it's products, but won't do anything...

(just cory's little thoughts)

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Apple used to be a great peripherals manufacturer, and now has a style that would go great with it's products, but won't do anything...

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I think what's happening is Apple is going mainstream. And while this is good for Apple, it's not necessarily good for the classic enthusiast.

As a windows user, I found classic a completely frustrating experience. Yes, many of the menus were much better laid out and it was very easy to set up 8.x and adjust settings.

But at the end of the day, Classic OS was nice UI laid out over a bunch of string and chewing gum with regular bailing wire and spit patches. So many things about it drove me batty! I was a much faster worker in W98 with my taskbar, start button, and windows explorer. I didn't 9 million windows blossoming all over my desk. The taskbar was so much better for seeing what I had open and switching between windows and programs.

Then there's the whole multi-tasking and protected memory thing.

I *hate* rebooting. In W98 (which I always found fast and stable, months between BSODs) if an app crashed, I killed it, re launched it and got going. Not so in classic OS.

I mastered moving about in OS X much much quicker than I did for classic.

If you like OS 9, then by all means, keep using it.

But I would say that Apple is all about providing the best user experience for its users. Now that they've switched to a modern OS with all the amenities, I would say that they are being more true to their ideals than ever.

To me, Classic feels like a piece of beaten up wooden furniture that's had its many large holes filled with wood putty rather than being completely refinished. Yes, it's that same piece of furniture that you've treasured for many years, but it doesn't look very good next to a new piece of furniture straight from the store. OS X is simply a better piece of software than Classic.

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Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s

the OS boots fast... and everything runs sweetly

The best OS for classic Macs, for simplicity, ease-of-use, and economical use of resources, was System 6.0.8 (previous versions of System 6 lacked MultiFinder, the ability to run two applications simultaneously). System 6 runs like lightning on 8 mHz SEs, and the whole OS can fit on a single 800 KB diskette.

With OS 7 and beyond, Apple began piling up hundreds of strange extensions and library files, until by 9 the System Folder looked like something out of Micro$oft, but without the functionality of Windows 2000.

OS X was necessary if Apple were to survive. It catapaults the Mac into the Unix world, and thereby has the potential for making Mac inroads into the business world, especially as companies (and governments) become increasingly disenchanted with M$'s draconian licensing costs.

You watch. Within two years, Apple is going to launch an office suite to compete with M$ Office and offer it for free to anyone who buys a Power Mac.

/Mr Lynn

The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

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Cory: You can resize the Dock, or eliminate it altogether.

The best OS for classic Macs, for simplicity, ease-of-use, and economical use of resources, was System 6.0.8 (previous versions of System 6 lacked MultiFinder, the ability to run two applications simultaneously). System 6 runs like lightning on 8 mHz SEs, and the whole OS can fit on a single 800 KB diskette.

With OS 7 and beyond, Apple began piling up hundreds of strange extensions and library files, until by 9 the System Folder looked like something out of Micro$oft, but without the functionality of Windows 2000.

OS X was necessary if Apple were to survive. It catapaults the Mac into the Unix world, and thereby has the potential for making Mac inroads into the business world, especially as companies (and governments) become increasingly disenchanted with M$'s draconian licensing costs.

You watch. Within two years, Apple is going to launch an office suite to compete with M$ Office and offer it for free to anyone who buys a Power Mac.

/Mr Lynn

The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn?t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

Edited by - mrlynn on 31 Jan 2003 08:44:46

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-danny
You! What PLANET is this!
-- McCoy, "The City on the Edge of Forever", stardate 3134.0
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68k Macintosh Liberation Army
68k Macs Liberated: 3

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You are correct except for one thing system 6.0.7 and 6.0.5 had the multifinder also

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The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

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Classic OS was nice UI laid out over a bunch of string and chewing gum with regular bailing wire and spit patches.

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Lessons Learned:
1. Always reset the PRAM after improper restarts.
2. Don't use virtual memory if you can get around it.

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The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn’t have a space program.
--Larry Niven

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I think with Jaguars release X became ready for prime time, at least for most people.

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II2II
Intelligence officer in training.

I think the GUI in Mac OS X is far better than in the previous Mac OS's.

I was very interested to see the similarities between X and System 6 (Control Panels vs System Prefs anyone?)

It's cleaner. We use a Hierarchial File System, which is expressed VERY nicely by Collum views.

I used to argue about not being able to Windowshade windows... I don't anymore. I've been using the dock FAR more efficently than I used to (I've used OS X since the Public Beta, for MOST of my work) and find it very nice. I keep mine small, but never hidden.

I don't beleive Apple should be supporting OS 9 anymore. They SHOULD be ditching OS 9. The argument that "I have to buy all new software" doesn't stack up. Yes, you can use MS Office w/ Word 6 in OS 9. But There are problems with it, and M$ won't support it.

If Apple had created a 9.5, or a OS X that was based on the traditional OS, You can be assured that 98 likely wouldn't be supported, would have problems, and 2000 would work well (or as well as M$ products ever do)

We use 4 Macs in my house, all running 10.2.3:

400MHz G4 (PCI graphics)
500MHz G3 iBook
333MHz iMac
PM 7600/132 w/300MHz G3 upgrade

Exactly zero of these has a "Classic" environment. OS 9 doesn't live on them, anywhere.

They are far more stable than any systems we've ever used, except for the 6.0.8 SE.

Is Apple supporting OS 9 anymore? No. Are they developing it anymore? No. Are they stopping you from useing it? No.

Should Apple have 2 OSes for the next 5 years, one based on OS X and another based on the Classic OS? Why should they, other than appease those that don't like the change?

What's different between switching form Mac OS 9 to OSX than from 9 to XP Pro?

Nothing. It's a change, of just as dramatic proportions. Pick the OS you want, the one that you think works best. It's your computer, your life.

~Marchie

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I was very interested to see the similarities between X and System 6 (Control Panels vs System Prefs anyone?)

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my *one* and only real problem with swithching to OSX right now, is my software applications. I use Apple/ClarisWorks 5, Microsoft Office 98, and at least a few other programs, that will cost me a bundle when I get my PowerBook (to buy for it)

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Wonko The Sane
Engineer-in-training
3 Macs Liberated
"You can't possibly be a scientist if you mind people thinking that you're a fool."- Wonko The Sane

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my next question... how would I get OpenOffice?

Official 68k videographer

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-danny
You! What PLANET is this!
-- McCoy, "The City on the Edge of Forever", stardate 3134.0
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68k Macintosh Liberation Army
68k Macs Liberated: 3

My work in OS X server has been frustrating, but very inspiring and has taught me a lot about the history of os x, as well as understanding unix better.

~The Penguin

it's like how at www.reactos.com theyre building an NT4 compatible OS...
hehhe

I bought it to replace Think Free Office and have been well pleased.

It installs and opens X Windows without a hitch. The only fly in ointment is that I can't figure out how to copy and paste from XWindows to Aqua and vice versa.

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I don't beleive Apple should be supporting OS 9 anymore. They SHOULD be ditching OS 9. The argument that "I have to buy all new software" doesn't stack up. Yes, you can use MS Office w/ Word 6 in OS 9. But There are problems with it, and M$ won't support it.

We use 4 Macs in my house, all running 10.2.3:

400MHz G4 (PCI graphics)
500MHz G3 iBook
333MHz iMac
PM 7600/132 w/300MHz G3 upgrade

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There's CPU card-to-ZIF converters out there which can be cheaper than the Sonnet cards, but I think they are slower. Does anyone else know more about these?

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I feel that OS X was the only choice for apple, because they knew "classic" was going to die.

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. . . was mac os 7 onwards just an attempt to keep up with the jones's(ie:-Windows).

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