| Author |
Topic |
|
llamaboy487
Full Member
USA
516 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 20:12:04
which model in the LC / Performa series was the best? curious as to what the consensus of the mla is-------------
Special Ops, 578th Performa Division
Fort Llama, Memphis Tennessee
Owner of the 68kmla's sole Performa 578 |
~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit
Australia
2822 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 20:36:10
630 'full' for IDE compatibility, 575 + FPU for SCSI drives.  ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
 |
maclover5
LC Doctor/Hot Rodder
Australia
5830 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 23:50:15
LC475: Kick@$$ power in a pizzabox
LC/Performa/Quadra 630: TV/Video capabilities, IDE support, easy to access mobo, CommSlot...what more could i say?
LC/Performa 57x: Well, their appearance is something approaching sex appeal. 
LCII: Well, it was the first Mac i ever used
LCIII: The first Mac i ever owned. -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Number of 68ks Liberated: 6
|
oldmacman
Full Member
USA
713 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 05:59:02
I know it's off topic, but the 6500 (if they made Performas out of them) would be the best consumer Mac.Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert
Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180
PCs liberated from Windoze: 3 |
mathgeek
Junior Member
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 15:02:58
I know there have already been 2 votes cast for the 630 series, but that's my favorite too. The best features are:1. Uses inexpensive internal IDE drives yet has an external SCSI bus
2. Can accomodate the TV, FM, Video, and Presentation systems
3. Can be turned on/off with a remote control
4. Easy mobo access (no need to open the case)
5. Light enough to carry a few miles after rescuing from the trash
mathgeek
68K Macs Liberated: LC, Performa 636, Mac Classic II
My Powerbook 1400 page http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dgoulet/1400 |
~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit
Australia
2822 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 17:21:59
6. Can use an external monitor. ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
|
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 18:13:24
7. Com Slot 10baseT frees PDS for expansion
banishing evil printer port AppleTalk voodoo!8. Built-in-CD 9. Beefy Speaker and a front mounted Headphone Jack
now available in a really crappy location on G4's 10. AND front mounted Volume controls STILL missing on G4's. 11. Longest useful lifetime by far of any consumer model,
the ONLY possible competitor overall would be the 840av,
but I think Video is probably better on a 630, dunno. 12. Mobo swappable with the best balanced package for
versatility and performance ever shipped, the 6500. jt  ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF |
~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit
Australia
2822 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 20:25:27
quote:
10. AND front mounted Volume controls STILL missing on G4's.
Front mounted volume controls that never worked...
Besides, Pro Keyboards have keyboard controls that work, all the time. ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
|
oldmacman
Full Member
USA
713 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 20:33:47
I agree. With the classic Mac OS's downright $#!tty multitasking, the front panel volume control never works right when you're in another program that uses audio and/or CPU time. At least it never does on my 575, 5400, or 6400.[EDIT: fixed tense change in grammar] Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert
Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180
PCs liberated from Windoze: 3 Edited by - oldmacman on 29 Oct 2002 20:35:35 |
alpaca2500
Junior Member
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 21:39:14
3 cheers for the 630! first mac i ever owned. i was so bummed that my parents didnt get a power pc, but this thing lasted me 5 years, until i saved up enough to get the imac i'm using now. recently resurrected with a tv card, they run side by side now.--
Performa 630
LCIII
SE |
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2002 : 22:29:20
quote:
quote:
10. AND front mounted Volume controls STILL missing on G4's.
Front mounted volume controls that never worked...
Besides, Pro Keyboards have keyboard controls that work, all the time.
When the kid's watching TV, the keyboard drawer is CLOSED and he can press the buttons on the front or use the remote control from his bed or sitting in the one rope hammock chair I hung in his room.Set, game, match: Quadra 630 and descendants!  Pro Keyboards SUCK! All style and mushy-wussy key action. The morons at Apple put the headset jack where it gets fouled up in the optical trays. STOOOOOOOOPID!  Besides, we're talking hardware, after umpty years you'd think maybe they'd FINALLY get multitasking right, but there's NO WAY you can blame the OS development geek's incompetence on the 630, and compare it to current product and OS, that's absurd. :rolleyes: jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF
Edited by - Trash80toG-4 on 29 Oct 2002 22:33:04
|
maclover5
LC Doctor/Hot Rodder
Australia
5830 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2002 : 00:56:17
Actually, mathgeek, the Presentation System is not Performa specific. Its an external black box that plugs into the DB-15 port on any desktop Mac or PowerBook. Also, jt, the CS Ethernet card, unlike what they say, does not block your printer port. I have my LocalTalk cable connected to my printer port, and my QuickCam to my modem port on my LC630, and both ports plus the ethernet card work fine.-------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Number of 68ks Liberated: 6
|
~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit
Australia
2822 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2002 : 01:11:46
quote:
Pro Keyboards SUCK! All style and mushy-wussy key action
HEY! The key action on the Pros rock! Thre keyboard is second only to a Nimitz-class, IMHO. ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
|
maclover5
LC Doctor/Hot Rodder
Australia
5830 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2002 : 01:52:07
quote:
quote:
Pro Keyboards SUCK! All style and mushy-wussy key action
HEY! The key action on the Pros rock! Thre keyboard is second only to a Nimitz-class, IMHO. ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
Hell yeah! Pro Keyboards ROCK! -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Number of 68ks Liberated: 6
|
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2002 : 05:00:36
quote:
Also, jt, the CS Ethernet card, unlike what they say, does not block your printer port. I have my LocalTalk cable connected to my printer port, and my QuickCam to my modem port on my LC630, and both ports plus the ethernet card work fine.
That's what I meant by banishing the voodoo, the printer port is freed up by the CS NIC. The modem nonsense was criminal.Alps keyswitches rock, my pro keyboard sucks! jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF |
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2002 : 07:38:05
quote:
quote:
HEY! The key action on the Pros rock! Thre keyboard is second only to a Nimitz-class, IMHO.
Ahhh mine's lovely. I do like tactile & clickynoisy keyboards normally (the old IBM ones from the late 80s were awesome), but the pro is just spot-on. and it has big fat keytops for clumsy unco typists like... say... me!
. . . it also moves the registration nubs under the index fingertips, which is nice.On the maniac's recommendation I'm typing on the pro ATM. How many of the rest of you pro lovers you have used the classic IBM clickety-clacks? It doesn't seem like the key action is quite as bad as the first impression, but the clickynoisy Alps keyswitches are far superior. ALL dome/membrane keyboards SUCK! I'll grant that the pro sucks quite a lot fewer inches of water than the level of vacuum achieved by most mushysquishy dome technology KBDs, tho.  IMHO, of course! jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF |
~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit
Australia
2822 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2002 : 17:08:38
I've tried various "clickety-clack" keyboards, mainly on xterms, and while some are nice, some are not.
Actually, one of my favourites had a key action which was decidedly mushy, but I could type *really* well on it, hard to describe.~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
|
maclover5
LC Doctor/Hot Rodder
Australia
5830 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2002 : 00:02:15
Yeah, i love the key action of the Pro keyboard too. Its nice. The key action on the original iMac keyboards isn't bad, either. I'm also a fan of the keyboards on the new Dells at school. When i'm in the mood for a real bashin', i *LOVE* those Dell keyboards! And yes, count me in for the club of clicky PC keyboard lovers. I love them too. The only problem is that the only clicky PC keyboard i have, an old Talent one has sorta lost its click, and the keys have become stiff...time for a new keyboard.-------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Number of 68ks Liberated: 6
|
SiliconValleyPirate
Junior Member
United Kingdom
273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2002 : 12:22:34
My vote is for the LC475 because, as everyone knows, I'm obsessed with pizza box LCs  The 630 is an awkward machine to swap drives on becuase of those stupid edge connectors. It's a falacy that the 630 is very upgradeabel becuase all the boards that fit straight in without hassle are cerap (x200, x300) and those with PCI are too much of a strain on the old PSU. The IDE is so SLOOOWWW it's link molasses in Antarctica going uphill in a headwind. And NO the video is NOT anywher NEAR as good as the 840av, it's vastly inferior in fact because the Performa video card doesn't scale PAL properly so it comes out really sucky. As for keyboards my Pro Keyboard is about 2 years old and cost me £60 at the time of buying but it has been a staple for all that time, never showing a single sign of frailty or failure. I tried toi type a recipe in on my mum's SE/30 on an original ADB Keyboard and it was a bloody nightmare, the key kickback was way too slow and the keys go too deep so my fingers kept getting caught on the sides of negbouring keys. I like my Pro k/b a lot. --
Mark Benson FlatPackMacs http://fpm.gotdns.com 2nd Lieutenant - 68kMLA, LC Quartermaster
Holder of the Crowbar of Persistan Crate Opening
"Remeber, all I am offering is the truth" - Morpheus (The Matrix) |
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2002 : 13:55:50
quote:
My vote is for the LC475 because, as everyone knows, I'm obsessed with pizza box LCs The 630 is an awkward machine to swap drives on becuase of those stupid edge connectors. It's a falacy that the 630 is very upgradeabel becuase all the boards that fit straight in without hassle are cerap (x200, x300) and those with PCI are too much of a strain on the old PSU. The IDE is so SLOOOWWW it's link molasses in Antarctica going uphill in a headwind. And NO the video is NOT anywher NEAR as good as the 840av, it's vastly inferior in fact because the Performa video card doesn't scale PAL properly so it comes out really sucky.
I'm not worried about PAL, pal!  When it comes to simple NTSC playthru, there's no way an 840av's more generic DSP based VidCap implementation can keep up with the 630's newer, dedicated Philips chipset coupled with the Video Slot's purpose-built mask projection playthru provisions. For capture and editing the 630 sucks tho, it's optimized for dumping video input straight back out to the display.As far as the IDE on the 630 series goes, LEM says it keeps up with SCSI very nicely. Most of the complaints about IDE were based soley on the pro-SCSI prejudices of PC hating Mac apologists. I'd love to see a real performance comparison of 630 IDE vs. the onboard SCSI of other Macs. The 630 has the crappy older SCSI controller IC on the mobo, so its IDE is probably faster than its SCSI bus. jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF |
alpaca2500
Junior Member
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2002 : 14:35:43
quote:
I'd love to see a real performance comparison of 630 IDE vs. the onboard SCSI of other Macs. The 630 has the crappy older SCSI controller IC on the mobo, so its IDE is probably faster than its SCSI bus.
are thre any hard drive benchmark programs that will test disk performace for ide and scsi on this machine? i have a hard drive hooked up to both ide and scsi, i'd like to find out as well. --
Performa 630
LCIII
SE |
SiliconValleyPirate
Junior Member
United Kingdom
273 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2002 : 05:24:50
quote:
I'm not worried about PAL, pal! When it comes to simple NTSC playthru, there's no way an 840av's more generic DSP based VidCap implementation can keep up with the 630's newer, dedicated Philips chipset coupled with the Video Slot's purpose-built mask projection playthru provisions. For capture and editing the 630 sucks tho, it's optimized for dumping video input straight back out to the display.
Oh yeh? How come the image quality is better on my 840av than it was on my 630 by a country mile then? Also, how many Ultra Wide hard disks can you fit in a 630? quote:
As far as the IDE on the 630 series goes, LEM says it keeps up with SCSI very nicely. Most of the complaints about IDE were based soley on the pro-SCSI prejudices of PC hating Mac apologists. I'd love to see a real performance comparison of 630 IDE vs. the onboard SCSI of other Macs. The 630 has the crappy older SCSI controller IC on the mobo, so its IDE is probably faster than its SCSI bus.
Hard disk benchmarks can say what they like, 'til theey are blue in the face but they won't change tha fact that the entire machine turns into a well crafted block of solid beige concrete while it's transfering data on an off the hard disk because IDE fires too many interupts across the CPU for a 68k to be able to do anything constructive at the same time. I can still use my 840av while it;s transfering stuff to and from the drive, ditto with my LC475. Eat that --
Mark Benson FlatPackMacs http://fpm.gotdns.com 2nd Lieutenant - 68kMLA, LC Quartermaster
Holder of the Crowbar of Persistant Crate Opening
"Never send a human to do a machine's job" - The Matrix |
oldmacman
Full Member
USA
713 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2002 : 06:13:36
quote:
IDE fires too many interupts across the CPU for a 68k to be able to do anything constructive at the same time.
I agree. Even with PPC Macs, the difference in performance is noticeable. Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert
Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180
PCs liberated from Windoze: 3 |
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER
USA
2899 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2002 : 08:54:01
quote:
quote:
I'm not worried about PAL, pal! When it comes to simple NTSC playthru, there's no way an 840av's more generic DSP based VidCap implementation can keep up with the 630's newer, dedicated Philips chipset coupled with the Video Slot's purpose-built mask projection playthru provisions. For capture and editing the 630 sucks tho, it's optimized for dumping video input straight back out to the display.
Oh yeh? How come the image quality is better on my 840av than it was on my 630 by a country mile then? Also, how many Ultra Wide hard disks can you fit in a 630? quote:
As far as the IDE on the 630 series goes, LEM says it keeps up with SCSI very nicely. Most of the complaints about IDE were based soley on the pro-SCSI prejudices of PC hating Mac apologists. I'd love to see a real performance comparison of 630 IDE vs. the onboard SCSI of other Macs. The 630 has the crappy older SCSI controller IC on the mobo, so its IDE is probably faster than its SCSI bus.
Hard disk benchmarks can say what they like, 'til theey are blue in the face but they won't change tha fact that the entire machine turns into a well crafted block of solid beige concrete while it's transfering data on an off the hard disk because IDE fires too many interupts across the CPU for a 68k to be able to do anything constructive at the same time. I can still use my 840av while it;s transfering stuff to and from the drive, ditto with my LC475. Eat that
As you said, you're running it on PAL output, so the comparison is pointless outside of your market area. I haven't seen playthru on the 840av, so I can't say which is better for NTSC playthru, if it can keep up with a dedicated I/O subsystem, I'm impressed.If you take the CD-ROM out, one more than fit into any other LC or Performa! . . . wouldn't have anything to hook an ultra-wide drive up to tho! :rolleyes: There's room for an extra drive in an 840av? I always thought it was stupid for Apple to build that tiny box with only three slots if they were going to do a performance type system, the 900/950 case and six slots would have been MUUUUCH better, IMHO. Somehow, talking about the 840av in a "best of the Centris-Performa" thread seems like it's about as off topic as you can get, btw! What was the list price of the highest end Mac shipped outside of the IIfx? (for its day) What was the price of the 630 series, which was a consumer level product, as we are supposed to be discussing? The fact that the inexpensive Video system (AND remote control: eat your hearts out 840av junkies! ) is competitive at all on any level with the 840av is pretty amazing. Interesting point about using an 840av while doing a disk access, I always thought ALL Macs were useless during disk access. Has the 840av got I/O coprocessors like the IIfx or something similar? Your interrupt theory wouldn't make any sense to me at all if it weren't an
Apple I/O kluge, they NEVER got anything right in a first and even sometimes THIRD rev of a new I/O implementation.  jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF Edited by - Trash80toG-4 on 11 Nov 2002 08:57:06 |
maclover5
LC Doctor/Hot Rodder
Australia
5830 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2002 : 14:11:33
quote:
Somehow, talking about the 840av in a "best of the Centris-Performa" thread seems like it's about as off topic as you can get, btw!
Yup! -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.™ - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Number of 68ks Liberated: 6
|
best LC/Performa
68k of the Week: kastegir's PowerBook 180.