Author |
Topic |
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Marchie
Chaplain
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USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 11:40:44
Ok... here we go.I'm going to be sending an 8100 to Clinton. We'll be starting off with 2GB of space available, so no one is getting much. I'd like to start with email service. I'm checking out POP servers that are Mac-worthy right now. It has to allow authenticated POP for starters. Might add basic Webpage capabilities, but again, space is limited. The integration process is my biggest concern... It'll SUCK if we have to do each account by hand in the web services, AND email, AND whatever else. I'd like to hold off on the "iFloppy" for now, or whatever we'll call it. I'm reading my AppleScript book trying to see what I can do... In some respects I think A/UX servers would be ALOT easier to maintain since it can all be done remotely by different people, via a command line and it's FAR more scriptable. That would also allow us to use Sendmail, which has no equal on the Mac. And a Quadra 950 running A/UX is frankly a zippy little UNIX server, and it NOT going to have a huge load on it for what we're doing. But we will begin with this one server. From there, I'm still designing the regional distribution system, and we'll see what we can come up with. Comments? Concerns? suggestions? ~Marchie ~Chaplain Marchie Admin of The WonderLAN ~~"We are all Mad here"~~ |
Clinton
Full Member
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USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 12:29:41
ok... I think that anyone can mount their SuperDrive (or iFloppy, we need a vote here) if it is shared on appleshare ip via tcp/ip. I think that I will write a nice little script for mounting the SuperDrive, which the user will double-click and type username and password. Anyone can remotly administer AppleShare IP according to the manual, as long as they have the right access privs, and the client installed. I also think that the AppleShare server has built in SMTP protocols, but we will see in the beta testing. I have asked ~Coxy to create a forum a la the war room for Administrators of .68kMac to discuss technical aspects of the service etc, that are best not broadcasted to the general public (sorry general public ) like security issues. Any polls etc will be posted in this forum for votes and feedback. With the websharing, I have a plan., but I'll explain it in the next post, I cannot do it right now, because the bell rang and I am late for class ![](icon_smile.gif) more coming........ CCC Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Quadra 650, and a Quadra 660AV Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, and a PM 8600/300 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Marchie
Chaplain
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USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 12:51:09
I'm going to install AppleShare IP 5 tonight and play with it, on an 8100.It has an integrated POP v3 and SMTP server, so we'll see how well they work. It has an integrated print server, which I knew... maybe one of the "sub" servers can have an integrated print-to-PDF-file server, for printing from a 68k Mac into a PDF file. That'd be rather neat. ~Marchie ~Chaplain Marchie Admin of The WonderLAN ~~"We are all Mad here"~~![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Da Penguin
Senior Member
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USA
1094 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 13:32:10
Ok, I'm back from vacation and can jump back into this. I am going to try getting appleshare 6.3 installed on my 6500 either tonite or tomorrow morning.My DSL connection DOES have a crappy UL speed (around 10k) and so any heavy serving is off limits. However mail and such is perfectly possible. ~The Penguin **| Want free 68kmla email? Drop me a line |** | Captain, Intelligence Operations / Space Cowboy | | 68k.torpedobird.com <-- Official Hotline Server |
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catsdorule
Senior Member
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Canada
1627 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 14:17:33
Don’t forget Da Penguin and me, he already has a great mail server that includes IMAP (which is great for me), and, POP (That is not as advanced as IMAP). It also has webmail that works really well. I can do the web serving, which will be when I get the Performa from Candy Punk, which will be the web server. I’ll make it so a few here could make accounts here remotely. As for a SMTP server, Unless we really need one, it won’t matter; we all have servers near us. The Super Drive/iFloppy, I can’t host these because I do not have the bandwidth for it. I could do the website for this if you want though I have no idea how I would design it, so if I would do this you guys would have to tell me how you would want it. We could have different tiers of service, say 2mb email and 2 MB of disk space and we could have an upgraded service for long-term members. Are we going to use 68kmac.com or we could use 68kmla.net or figure out a way to make 68kmla.com to work. We are still going to have to figure out who is going to do what, we shouldn’t clog up one server/computer with all the services, less it would crash. I highly doubt we will end up using A/UX, it is a great idea although as Clinton stated. That it would be best to have the Extra speed that comes with a PPC. Below I will propose the following setup: -Clinton: 8100 (stats unknown) 2GB HD Less with system installed. = Superdrive/iFloppys -Da Penguin: Email/webmail with IMAP/POP -Me: Preforma Webserver. This way the services will be split between different areas, computers and connections so if one computer crashes all the services don’t go down, and if one of the Connections goes down not all the services will go down. So as to keep performance at the top we should split the duties up best fitting the situation. -Clinton with his high speed should get the job of hosting the iFloppy/Superdrive whatever. -Me with the medium connection, I could get the job of hosting the web sites, as my connection wouldn’t affect the performance. -Da Penguin with his connection which is a little slower then mine, could do the e-mail which doesn’t require much bandwidth so it wouldn’t matter (It has been my main e-mail address for over 2 months now) My web server will probably just be running the regular Mac Os based one. I could run the Microsoft Personal Web Server (Supports ASP) But then again it is an M$ Product. The Biggest problem is getting the automatic setup to work. So setting up each user would be the pain. Although It is only temporary because after the first bit we’ll only be setting up one user at a time, We probably need someone that is good at at applescript to make this all work out. We might have to use a Macro Program to make this all work out because it records everything that happens. Well I’ll let someone else put something in. -danny ------- 68k Macintosh Liberation Army 68k Macs Liberated: 3![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif)
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Clinton
Full Member
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USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 15:05:25
I was thinking that for the start, I could host everything, at least for the prototyping stage. That way, instead of everyone trying to contact everyone if something goes wrong, they would only have to contact one person. I own a legal copy of appleshare IP 5, so we would have no orchard legal department hassle. Also, with everything on one site, it makes server administration and linking more feasable. I will have a deatiled plan ready for submission soon. Another advantage of me hosting this on my site, I have an air-conditioned server room where these servers will be living. I feel that I should also install timbucktoo or some sort of VNC software so that other administrators can administer the servers in case I am incapacatated, or am offline somewhere. any further suggestions? CCC Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Quadra 650, and a Quadra 660AV Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, and a PM 8600/300 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Clinton
Full Member
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USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 15:06:36
oh, web server: use the siver HTTP server that has a reference in the general baracks board. thx CCCLieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Quadra 650, and a Quadra 660AV Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, and a PM 8600/300 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Marchie
Chaplain
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USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 17:07:05
The reason I was suggesting A/UX for some services, is because Apple's TCP/IP stack SUCKS in pre 9 situation.. and even then it's sub standard to even the BSD stack use din A/UX.Secondly, AppleShare doesn't deal with Virtual Private Networks well (or at all). With A/UX we have SSH connections, and UUCP (the building block of TCP/IP). Then you have Sendmail, Apache, and an entire system of remote administration tools far more powerful than Apple's remost Desktop, or Timbuktu, without the GUI information to bog down the bandwdith. The speed difference referred to between PPC chips and 68k is questionable. Under many situation, especially those of higher load, the first generation PPC chips run slower than high end 68k boxes (read: Quadra 900/950, others with enough RAM). I'm not saying for a moment that AppleShare IP is not viable, or inappropriate. In fact, It's VERY appropriate, since I think Appletalk is the only protocol we can really use for serving iFloppies, without having to write our own client software, and that really defeats some of the point here. And I'll take a look at SilverHTTP. ~Marchie![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
catsdorule
Senior Member
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Canada
1627 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 17:41:48
Can We set up a chat room to talk abou this?-danny ------- 68k Macintosh Liberation Army 68k Macs Liberated: 3![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
llamaboy487
Full Member
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USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 19:52:44
we definitely need to start a thread for names for the iFloppy thing...THIS POST GETS ME MY GREEN STAR! YAY! ------------- Special Ops, 578th Performa Division Fort Llama, Memphis Tennessee Owner of the 68kmla's sole Performa 578 Edited by - llamaboy487 on 28 Oct 2002 19:53:34![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
oldmacman
Full Member
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USA
713 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 20:51:13
quote: With A/UX we have SSH connections
A/UX does SSH? Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180 PCs liberated from Windoze: 3![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Marchie
Chaplain
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USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 22:01:37
Aye, I beleive you can compile SSH on A/UX after you update the GCC version.~Marchie ~Chaplain Marchie Admin of The WonderLAN ~~"We are all Mad here"~~![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Da Penguin
Senior Member
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USA
1094 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 22:42:54
What about OS X server or its ancestor of Rhapsody? I am *trying*(so VERY VERY hard) to get a G3 mobo for the server, upon which I could install either. Mind you I don't have it set up yet, but if it were possible, would there be a benifit?~The Penguin **| Want free 68kmla email? Drop me a line |** | Captain, Intelligence Operations / Space Cowboy | | 68k.torpedobird.com <-- Official Hotline Server |
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thelip
Full Member
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USA
729 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 23:19:39
apache is very powerful, but a pain to use, IMHO. LIke, t-bird, i'm using webstar and it's a great application. I think you should look into that for email. It can so both imap and pop3 at the same time (i think, somebody correct me if i'm wrong). I'm using the version for os9, 4.5 or something like that. fromwhat i hear, 5 for osx rocks. of course, this requires a license. Also i just found this little app on versiontracker called henwen. For whoever hosts stuff, check this app out (for osx) it seems really really interesting. i haven't had a chance to play with it much though. I'll quote it's description: quote:
HenWen is a network security package for Mac OS X that makes it easy to configure and run Snort, a free Network Intrusion Detection System (NIDS). HenWen's goal is to simplify setting up and maintaining software that will scan network traffic for undesirable traffic a firewall may not block. Everything you need to have is bundled in; there is no compiling or command line use necessary.
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/14778 _______________________ Sgt. Thelip Heavy Weapons Specialist - 950 division Keeper of the MLA Tracker - mlatracker.dyndns.org![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Clinton
Full Member
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USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2002 : 23:46:30
IMHO, we are not using any of ther versions of OSX, including the old server version, sans aqua interface (which IMHO, is very cool) because we are trying to keep this as 68k oriented as possible. I am taking my a/ux box to work to play with it tomorrow. Another reason that I am against A/UX, is because I highly doubt that anyone owns a legal copy of the software. I happen to (as I said before) own a legal copy of appleshare IP 5. I am not a/ux bashing, it is just that we should stay as legal as possible to avoid the legal departments of certian orchards from cracking down on us. methinks we should test the waters before taking the plunge.... CCCLieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Quadra 650, and a Quadra 660AV Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, and a PM 8600/300 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Clinton
Full Member
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USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2002 : 14:35:39
Hey Marchie -- email me at ccrawford_AT_sphs-web.lausd.k12.ca.usthanx CCC Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Quadra 650, and a Quadra 660AV Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, and a PM 8600/300 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
foetoid
Full Member
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USA
554 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2002 : 22:37:17
quote:
In some respects I think A/UX servers would be ALOT easier to maintain since it can all be done remotely by different people, via a command line and it's FAR more scriptable. That would also allow us to use Sendmail, which has no equal on the Mac. And a Quadra 950 running A/UX is frankly a zippy little UNIX server, and it NOT going to have a huge load on it for what we're doing.
If you do something with this whole A/UX buisness, if an when i get dsl or cable and it's reliable, I'd be willing to set something up on my 950. ________________ foetoid, that's (fee-toy-duh) http://www.foetoid.doesntexist.com![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
II2II
Junior Member
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Canada
115 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2002 : 23:04:52
Please do not use A/UX for a server. Updating or patching services on it will be very difficult because of its age, so you will run into a brick wall every time you want to do something new. You will also be able to find more help if you are dealing with a reasonably modern system.NetBSD 1.3 is reasonably modern and will work well on a 680x0 system. It may also be possible to use netatalk for file sharing, in addition to the slightly more standard ftp protocol. iFloppies would work too since every user can access their home directory via netatalk. It is possible to develop the web services via cgi scripting. But the netatalk is only a maybe. While it works wonderfully on a LAN, I have never tried it over IP. For that, we'll have to read the docs. II2II Intelligence officer in training.![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
oldmacman
Full Member
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USA
713 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2002 : 08:58:25
quote: NetBSD 1.3 is reasonably modern and will work well on a 680x0 system.
What's wrong with 1.6, the latest version? It supports more machines and includes newer versions of everything. Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180 PCs liberated from Windoze: 3![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
II2II
Junior Member
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Canada
115 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2002 : 10:19:58
quote:
What's wrong with 1.6, the latest version?
Well, I can't say that I have tried 1.6 -- but it feels like the later versions are getting slower and slower. But this may only be an issue for workstations rather than servers since, with servers, the tendancy is to start a process and leave it running. II2II Intelligence officer in training.![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
oldmacman
Full Member
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USA
713 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2002 : 11:13:47
IIRC, they switched to a new kernel format that's supposed to make it work better.Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180 PCs liberated from Windoze: 3![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Clinton
Full Member
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USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2002 : 15:24:40
are we still going through with this, this thread has been dead for a little while. Marchie -- email me at ccrawford_AT_sphs-web.lausd.k12.ca.us CCC Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Quadra 650, and a Quadra 660AV Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, and a PM 8600/300 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
BlackScorpion
Starting Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2002 : 15:57:02
Hey guys why not try a BBS type program like FirstClass or Telefinder? both have webservers, e-mail and I'm sure you can create a forum of some type to run on, you can have chat and other types of conferences on it.... IMO![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif)
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catsdorule
Senior Member
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Canada
1627 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2002 : 18:48:24
We have all those (except chat) already.-danny ------- 68k Macintosh Liberation Army 68k Macs Liberated: 3![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Marchie
Chaplain
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USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2002 : 14:49:45
The Plan is on hold till after US Turkey Day...Clinton and I are buried in work and .68k Server Alpha isn't ready yet. We're still shooting for a pre-2003 Go Live date for mail and net storage. ~Marchie ~Chaplain Marchie Admin of The WonderLAN ~~"We are all Mad here"~~![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
catsdorule
Senior Member
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Canada
1627 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2002 : 16:36:48
Well i'm occupied at the moment from writing the site in php/mysql so this should be up by next year.-danny ------- 68k Macintosh Liberation Army 68k Macs Liberated: 3![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Clinton
Full Member
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USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2002 : 16:00:06
Marchie: I think that pre-2003 would rush the service to market too quick. I was shooting for a Pre-Valentines beta launch, because then I'll have the christmas holiday to work on the service. we have forums set up for suggestions or posts, and anyone wishing to contribute is encouraged to. The forums that we have set up(link: http://68kmla.webicane.com/phpBB2/) are a little bare at the moment due to the fact that the entire shebang got deleted when we had a serveer hiccough. anyway, just a constructive thing to think of CCC Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Quadra 650, and a Quadra 660AV Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, and a PM 8600/300 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif)
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Marchie
Chaplain
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USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2002 : 17:58:49
I respect the work of the proto-.68k forums and such. they are definatly giving me ideas about how to go about things.I have a few concerns however: 1) I would like (and Clinton has said the same above) to keep all servers running only legit copies of software. 2) The forums over there are VERY unfriendly to 68k computers, both in depth of colours, the php based system, width of pages, etc. 3) I'm not sure that .68k needs that much depth of forum, with these forums sitting here quite nicely, which we can add a .68kinfo forum to, or that we want to pull away from these, thus splitting the community. 4) I'd be interested in any concerns or ideas ANYONE has for both .68k and the website in general. Being the mod of this particular forum, I'd like input on all those kinds of matters. ~Marchie ~Chaplain Marchie Admin of The WonderLAN ~~"We are all Mad here"~~![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
catsdorule
Senior Member
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Canada
1627 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2002 : 20:01:02
quote:
I respect the work of the proto-.68k forums and such. they are definatly giving me ideas about how to go about things.I have a few concerns however: 1) I would like (and Clinton has said the same above) to keep all servers running only legit copies of software.
To my knowledge they are...
quote:
2) The forums over there are VERY unfriendly to 68k computers, both in depth of colours, the php based system, width of pages, etc.
Those forums also let us provide content without modifying the pages so this is the best system at the moment, we are going to make a more 68k page, and that will be in html. Also marchie if you register we can allow you to see the hidden forums so you can see all the discussion going on there.
quote:
3) I'm not sure that .68k needs that much depth of forum, with these forums sitting here quite nicely, which we can add a .68kinfo forum to, or that we want to pull away from these, thus splitting the community.4) I'd be interested in any concerns or ideas ANYONE has for both .68k and the website in general. Being the mod of this particular forum, I'd like input on all those kinds of matters. ~Marchie ~Chaplain Marchie Admin of The WonderLAN ~~"We are all Mad here"~~
-danny You! What PLANET is this! -- McCoy, "The City on the Edge of Forever", stardate 3134.0 ------- 68k Macintosh Liberation Army 68k Macs Liberated: 3![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Gothikon
Full Member
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Australia
537 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2002 : 02:51:44
Unless I'm completely missing something I don't see how the use of PHP and MySQL adversly affect the client. Bit depth yes, images yes, CSS could cause problems. As most of my 68k's are in the UK and I'm in Aus I have no idea what the best 68k browser is at this time. This is probably something worth looking in to as if it is going to be 68k friendly you need to see what the latest 69k browsers can and cannot support. Personally i think Netscape 4.x is a PITA but 4.73 was released not so long ago if I remember rightly and maybe a little better, not sure about iCab and Opera.I also totally agree with IISII about the problems with keeping A/UX up to date and secure which I think should be enough to rule it out altogether. Finally I can't remember who but someone was looking for a G3 board. I still have a PTP board available (basically a 9500) 30 USD 40 with case and PS although shipping the case may not be cost effective. However i would be looking out for an iMac with dead video. Everything you need built in, cheap easily available parts, very small and iMacs with dead video are easy to hack and hook up to an external monitor. You could then run OS X, QE et al isn't an issue and you have, the power of unix! About distribution what about the issue of centralised passwords and usernames? If the server containing these goes down no one could log in to any of the services even if their own servers were running. Are you going to sync the usernames and passwords between servers at regular intervals or something? Finally is there going to be an Australian arm of .68k? ![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif)
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Clinton
Full Member
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USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2002 : 15:15:39
OK, first of all, let me quell any rumors that may be flying:1) The website is temporarally like it is, it will not stay like that, we are currently working on redesigns about every week and a half 2) The forums look like they do, because that is phpBB2's default look, and we just have not changed it yet. 3) The reason that we have a large depth of forum on the .68k site, is because the .68k service will be offered not only to members of the 68kmla, but members of the general public that do not wish to join the MLA, though at a different price bracket. 4) We will not be using A/UX 5) This service will not launch to the public at all until the spring of 2003, and that will more than likely be a public beta. 6) We will be running ASIP 5, which is the legal version of the AppleShare IP software that we own. 7) we are working out a mirroring solution so that we have 5 or more servers that replicate with each other if there is anything else that you need me to clear up, let me know CCC Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Q650, a Q660AV, and a MacII Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, a PM 8600/300, and a PM8500/180 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif) |
Citon X600
Junior Member
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Canada
206 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2002 : 05:55:36
Someone mentioned FirstClass Server. It's expensive and only older versions support the 68K, they have a new version out that is free, but is limited to 5 users.I once called up to find a quote for it, it was at least 1,400 dollars. So that is out of here unless the would donate it. But I doubt it. ![Go to Top of Page](icon_go_up.gif)
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