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 Could really use some advice re: my PowerBook G4..
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SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts
Posted - 09 Oct 2002 :  21:09:26
Howdy, folks!
Well, I'm beyond being stumped about a recent rash of crashes, errors, freezes and random glitches that I've been having on my PB G4. For starters, here are the basic specs on my PB:

PowerBook G4/500 mHz
512 megs of RAM (it came with 256, but I recently picked up another 256 meg chip)
20-gig Hard Drive
DVD-ROM
Mac OS X 10.2.1

I've run both Norton 6.x (many, many times) while booted from BeBox, my 5-gig iPod, and also fsck, from the UNIX prompt.
The really strange thing is that every time I run Norton, it reports the same problem in the same files, and then fixes them every time, only to report them again the next time it's run! The most consistant recuring problem is a 'bad backup date' error, which Norton claims to fix every time, but then reports again the next time it's run. I wouldn't be too worried, as it doesn't seem to be such a massive file problem, except that it's reported in over 3,000 files, and a lot of 'em look pretty important- system files (both X and 9) and the like.
Anyway, the symptoms are also pretty strange:
The other day, I restarted the system, and for the first time on this 'Book, I got the dreaded 'blinking-?-of-doom'- the damn thing refused to boot! I started up from my Norton CD, but the hard disk wouldn't show up in the drive list. I could hear it clicking and whiring, just like usual, but it just wouldn't appear in the list of drives that I could access. I also tried booting from BeBox (the iPod) and my OS 9.2.1 CD, but got the same results.
I had to go out, so I just shut down the system and left.
When I came back later that evening, I started by removing the new RAM chip, and booted the system, and it fired right up into OS X like usual! Of course, now I suspected that the RAM was faulty, but I've been using the system without the chip, and I'm still having some really strange issues... like today, when I started the 'Book, at the grey-on-grey-Apple-logo screen, the thing kinda 'freaked out', with half the screen showing the grey background, and the top half of the apple logo, while the lower half just had some random static-y garbage. The system was frozen, and I had to force-restart it to get it to finish booting. Also, several times today, when I hit the brigtness up-and-down keys or the volume keys (F1-F4), the keys have the intended effect (i.e. gets louder or quieter), but the little 'see-through' window that's supposed to pop up and tell you their status just doesn't show... that is, until it does show up, as if nothing had happened... yikes.
The worst thing about all this is that it seems to be totally random- I'm posting this on the 'Book right now, and it seems to be working just fine! The sad part is that, for all I know, it's going to start bugging out any moment now... sigh.
I'm not sure what to do. I'm planning to back-up my most important files at work tomorrow, and re-install 10.2, but past that, I don't know.
As far as I know, the 'Book is still under the 1-year warranty, so will Apple help me out? I didn't get the AppleCare plan with it, because I was told that I would be covered for a year... but on their support site, it says that after 90 days, you've got to cough up $45 for help! Grrrrr!
Okay, that's about everything. I'm gonna post this around the web on a few different forums, and see what kinda response I get.
Wish me luck!
SpaceBoy

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
PB 180/33, "Osbourne 1"
PMac 7100/G3-266, "DEC Rainbow" and "Altair 8800"
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
Newton 120, "PADD"

alcoa
Full Member


Albania
543 Posts
Posted - 09 Oct 2002 :  21:17:48
Did you go the upgrade route or a fresh install? Over on fritter Dr. B said to NEVER, EVER do the upgrade option for 10.2 ALWAYS do a straight install.

Dunno, I've barely played with 10.1/9.2 yet. =8-/

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SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts
Posted - 09 Oct 2002 :  21:32:21
That's the thing- I think I did an upgrade, and not a fresh install. If I'm right, I should be able to do an install where it moves my current system folder(s) to an inactive spot and creats a new system... I'm gonna go give that a try...
Thanks!
SpaceBoy

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
PB 180/33, "Osbourne 1"
PMac 7100/G3-266, "DEC Rainbow" and "Altair 8800"
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
Newton 120, "PADD"Go to Top of Page

Captain Z
Mobile Ops Commander


USA
637 Posts
Posted - 09 Oct 2002 :  22:13:05
I remember hearing something while back about compatability problems with the changes made in 10.2. There is a new version of Norton to repair these problems. The old version (v6, like you have) won't work right under 10.2, and may actually cause more problems (I've heard it killing important system files, corrupting kernal extentions, etc.). More info can be found scattered throughout the MacFixIt Forums.

My best recommendation is to download version 7.0.2 update for Norton Utilities and reinstall 10.2.1 until you can get yourself back up and running.

------------------
Captain Z - Mobile Operations Commander
68K Macintosh Liberation Army

23 68K Macs Liberated

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SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 :  01:09:09
Well, I tried to do an archive install of 10.2, but (of course) nothing went right.
First, when I tried to boot from my Jaguar CD, I found that I could insert the disc, but it wouldn't spin! I was able to insert/remove the discs, but they just wouldn't spin. On this 'Book, the DVD-ROM drive is so loud that I can easily tell when the disc is turning or not, and I just couldn't get the damn thing to boot from the 10.2 CD. I could hear it trying to spin, making the most horrible loud clanking/grinding noises (oh god oh god ohgodohgod....) Of couse, things being how they are, I was finally able to get it working, but only after inserting a DVD (my copy of the classic "Metropolis"), and then inserting my Jag CD, which worked fine (I have no idea why)... for a while...
I started the install, but it crashed about 2-3 min. in, so I rebooted and was (finally!) able to (re)install 10.2 The main problem I'm facing now is that the 'fresh' install didn't import my old settings/users/accounts/etc, so I'm pretty much having to rebuild my system from scratch.
So, how do I get my old settings back?! I've still got my 'old' system folder, but I don't know what goes where. I've gotten my custom desktop pics back, and my screensavers, but how do I get all my iPhoto albums? How 'bout my iTunes playlists? IE/Mozilla bookmarks? Mail.app accounts?
Man oh man, does this blow. I've not been so frusterated with an Apple computer since my old SE blew up 8 years ago. I'm gonna call and tell them all about these problems tomorrow, and see what can be done. At the very least, I'd like to see Apple replace my hard drive and DVD-ROM drive... do you think I've got any chance of seeing this happen?
Thanks for the support, folks... I'm really pulling my hair out over this!
SpaceBoy <spent the last 4 hours trying to resurect his PBG4, instead of cramming for his Psych. midterm first thing in the morning... sigh>

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
PB 180/33, "Osbourne 1"
PMac 7100/G3-266, "DEC Rainbow" and "Altair 8800"
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
Newton 120, "PADD"Go to Top of Page

alcoa
Full Member


Albania
543 Posts
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 :  06:05:44
quote:

So, how do I get my old settings back?! I've still got my 'old' system folder, but I don't know what goes where. I've gotten my custom desktop pics back, and my screensavers, but how do I get all my iPhoto albums? How 'bout my iTunes playlists? IE/Mozilla bookmarks? Mail.app accounts?


It's easy, you just restore the hard drive to the backup snapshot you took of it before you attempted to install new system software (the riskiest pre-bugfix rev kind) and figure out how to do your changeover more systematically . . .

. . . you DID backup your drive before mucking around in the system folder, didn"t you?

*rolleyes*

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Kady Mae
Junior Member


USA
261 Posts
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 :  08:55:30
Space Boy, this sounds like a hardware problem, what with the dvd drive not spinning up like it should.

However, there's one last software thing you can try.

How much space you got on the 733 at work? I'd copy over every bit of irreplacable data that you've got.

Get the PB booted, wipe the drive and do a from scratch install of 10.2. Yes, it is annoying to have to go back in and re-tweak all your settings by hand and import back all of the data.

If this still doesn't solve the problem, or you can't even get the DVD drive to spin up, call Apple pronto.

That $45 service charge is for *technical* (meaning "software") support. If you are having hardware problems, it doesn't cost a thing to talk to them and get an RMA packet.

If they try to make it sound like, oh, this is a software compatablity issue, just emphasise the fact that it's making a grinding noise and even if it's not so, say you're having a problem with getting the load tray to shut.

On the downside, if you do have to get it RMA'd, it will be about 2 weeks before you have your PB back.

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SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 :  10:22:13
Thanks for all the good ideas/advice, folks!
quote:
. . . you DID backup your drive before mucking around in the system folder, didn"t you?

Well, yes and no... As Kady Mae mentioned, at work I have access to a PowerMac G4/733 with 3 40 (or was it 60?) gig super-fast SCSI drives and a DVD-burning SuperDrive. The other day, I tried using the new 'backup' app to create a perfect disk-image of my then-current PowerBook setup, but the app crashed every time, before starting the burn. The next thing I tried was creating a 20-gig disk image on the PowerMac, and just doing a full-disk copy to that, from my PowerBook. Of couse, (I'm assuming) because of the various and sundry file errors on my 'Book, it was unable to sucessfully copy over the disk.
In the end, the best I could do was to create a folder on the PowerMac and just manually copy over the few things that I really, really don't want to loose- i.e. my MP3's, my writings, etc.
Anyway, I've spent some more time tinkering with my 'new' 10.2 setup, and I've got things a lot closer to where I want them- I've got my bookmarks back, my iTunes playlists, my iPhoto albums, my Mail accounts, etc.
The biggest thing I've not been able to restore is the huge batch of icons that I had placed in my dock. I found some sort of dock pref's in my old Library foler(s), and I put them where they belong in the new system, but it only partially fixed it the way I want it- now the dock has the same behavior that it used to (size, mag, hiding, etc.), but still the basic set of icons. I know, I know, icons in my dock is hardly the biggest thing for me to worry about, but it'll still be a pain trying to get it back the way I like it.
All-in-all, things are better, so far. My hard drive is still acting funny (did the magic disapearing act last night again, only to materialize again outta da blue), and the DVD-ROM drive is still semi-dead (will insert/eject, but no spinning), but at least I'm able to boot the system, and I've been able to restore most of my settings.
So, I'm going to call Apple the next chance I get, and see what kinda service I can get outta them... Thanks a bunch for the info on the charges, Kady- I was worried, as I don't have $45 right now... If I have to part with my 'Book for two weeks, well, it'll blow, but if that means that it'll come back with a working DVD and hard drive, then I guess it'll be worth it...
Again, thanks everyone!
SpaceBoy
PS I've heard stories about folks sending in their broken Macs to have parts replaced, and getting them back with better parts then they expected- i.e. trying to get a DVD-ROM drive replaced, and getting it back with a Combo drive... is this a myth, or could I hope to get a larger hard drive out of this situation? Just a thought...

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
PB 180/33, "Osbourne 1"
PMac 7100/G3-266, "DEC Rainbow" and "Altair 8800"
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
Newton 120, "PADD"Go to Top of Page

SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 :  13:57:48
Well, I just spoke to Apple Tech Support, and I got quite a run-around.
Basicly, if I want to ship my PBG4 to Apple and get the drive(s) replaced, first they'll have to 'talk me through' a format and re-install of OS X... which, of course, is a software issue, so they're going to charge me the $49 for their 'help' doing what I'm already about to do on my own!!! Arrrrgh! According to the (rather rude) guy I spoke to, they won't even look at the thing until they walk me through the format+reinstall. This blows. I told him 800 times that part of the problem is that the damn thing won't read CD's 9 outta 10 times, so I don't even know if I can install the OS again. I inserted a CD while I was on the phone with him, and it did the 'grinding, clanking and eject' routine that it was doing last night. I can't belive that they're going to charge me $50 freakin' bucks for something I'm already going to do. Does anyone out there think that wiping the drive and putting a fresh OS install is suddenly going to get my CD's to spin and stop clanking/grinding?! I don't.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH!!!!
SpaceBoy

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
PB 180/33, "Osbourne 1"
PMac 7100/G3-266, "DEC Rainbow" and "Altair 8800"
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
Newton 120, "PADD"Go to Top of Page

catsdorule
Senior Member


Canada
1627 Posts
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 :  17:37:32
There is a big bug in norton with 10.2 I had to reformat to fix it

-Danny
Forum: http://www24.brinkster.com/catsdorule1/
"Windows(win-doze): A 32-bit extension to a 16-bit graphical shell of an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit processor by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition."Go to Top of Page

Slomac636
Junior Member


USA
103 Posts
Posted - 10 Oct 2002 :  23:52:09
Sorry to hear about all the problems, I was reading one of the Mac rags last night and it was saying some things about 10.2 that were not so good, but they went on to say that 10.4 was MUCH better, did you try switching(!) to a newer version on X also? Good Luck!

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~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit


Australia
2822 Posts
Posted - 11 Oct 2002 :  00:32:10
10.4 isn't out yet... or are you talking about Norton?

~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
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Kady Mae
Junior Member


USA
261 Posts
Posted - 11 Oct 2002 :  08:41:50
Space Boy,

Call the tech support line again, and say that the load tray on the drive keeps popping open and now it won't shut. Say it was making a horrible grinding noise and won't spin up when you can convince it to stay closed.

DO NOT mention OS X, or Norton.

If they mention the previous tech support call, say that you explained this problem but the tech seemed not to understand that you can't reformat the hard drive because the DVD drive isn't working.

This is your mantra. Stick to it no matter what.

68K's liberated: 4
68Ks adopted to loving homes: 2
PowerMacs adopted: 1Go to Top of Page

SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts
Posted - 11 Oct 2002 :  10:35:14
quote:
If they mention the previous tech support call, say that you explained this problem but the tech seemed not to understand that you can't reformat the hard drive because the DVD drive isn't working.
This is your mantra. Stick to it no matter what.

Good call- I'll give that a shot tonight. In the mean time, I'm just gonna make sure that all my files are safely backed up- I know I've been really lucky so far, in that (while my system has been acting really cranky), I've not suffered any serious data loss.
Thanks again!
SpaceBoy
PS Hey Kady- if you're around today, I've got a big sack of misc. RAM chips in my desk with your name on it... :-)

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
PB 180/33, "Osbourne 1"
PMac 7100/G3-266, "DEC Rainbow" and "Altair 8800"
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
Newton 120, "PADD"Go to Top of Page

SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts
Posted - 11 Oct 2002 :  17:14:43
Well, finally a possible resolution to these problems I've been having! I just got off the phone with Apple Tech Support, and they're gonna take my PBG4 in and give it a once-over.... whew!
I mostly owe this victory to Kady Mae- her advice to stick to my guns and make damn well sure that they understand it's a HARDWARE issue, and not something to charge me fifty stinkin' bucks for... Thanks again, Kady!
I don't know what they're gonna do- the problems come and go (seemingly) randomly, so I'm a little worried that my 'Book will get there and work fine, resulting in no new parts, but hopefully that won't happen!
Thanks, everyone...
SpaceBoy <this is the first time I've been hoping for this thing to mess up!>

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
PB 180/33, "Osbourne 1"
PMac 7100/G3-266, "DEC Rainbow" and "Altair 8800"
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
Newton 120, "PADD"Go to Top of Page

Kady Mae
Junior Member


USA
261 Posts
Posted - 11 Oct 2002 :  18:28:59
\m/

Good.

(And I just got off the phone with the cc people. I'm going with the dual 867s and they -- bless them -- when they saw the big charge immediatly froze the account and made me verify that this was really me and not somebody with a stolen card going on a spree.)

68K's liberated: 4
68Ks adopted to loving homes: 2
PowerMacs adopted: 1Go to Top of Page

SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts
Posted - 11 Oct 2002 :  18:52:01
Sweeeet... Keep us all informed as to the progress of your G4-ification!
:-)
SpaceBoy

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
TiBook G4/500, "Difference Engine"
PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
PB 180/33, "Osbourne 1"
PMac 7100/G3-266, "DEC Rainbow" and "Altair 8800"
Quadra 950, "HAL 9000"
iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
Newton 120, "PADD"Go to Top of Page

   

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