68k Macintosh Liberation Army Forums

68k Macintosh Liberation Army Forums

Home | Members | Search | FAQ

All Forums

68k Hacks

swapping processors

Author	Topic
alpaca2500 Junior Member USA 102 Posts	Posted - 04 Oct 2002 : 08:03:07 can i pop a 25 MHz 68040 from a quadra 610 into a Performa 630 (33 MHz)? i only want to do this to get the chip with the FPU into the oerforma, as it only has a 68LC040. i know the chip will fit, but will it run? Performa 630 Quadra 610 LCIII SE
candyPunk Full Member USA 856 Posts	Posted - 04 Oct 2002 : 08:52:51 I believe whether it will work can depend on the specific chip. You can run chips faster than they are supposed to be clocked, but not all of them can handle such a speedup. It is only factory rated for 25 mhz, but it might be able to squeeze out 33. Try it, I say. Actually, you better get that advice from someone else. What happens if you try to run a chip too fast? I know a lot of overclocking attempts that go too high mess with the rest of the components, ie the serial ports can't run at a certain timing, but what happens when the processor can't handle the speed that it's set for? Maybe you'd need to "underclock" the performa to accomodate the slower 040, but there's no info on the clock chipping website on stable speeds UNDER the original. { candyPunk } { Captain of Observation, 68k MLA } { 68k Macs liberated: 3} { My baby: Q660av }
Marchie Chaplain USA 911 Posts	Posted - 04 Oct 2002 : 09:31:57 Throwing the slower chip in won't mess with your serial ports or any of that, no worries. Overclocking when you change chip occilators, or chip multipliers can cause problems like that. Since that's not what you aare doing... just try it! The worst you'll do is fry the 25MHz chip. ~Marchie ~Chaplain Marchie Admin of The WonderLAN ~~"We are all Mad here"~~
stonent Junior Member USA 155 Posts	Posted - 22 Oct 2002 : 21:13:31 Ok, who's up for the watercooled Quadra? Useless 6360 16/1.2/8.6 :( SE 1/20/6.0.8 :) Q840av 20/0/DOA :( I may be nobody here, but in the Dell forums, I've got over 8000 posts :)
oldmacman Full Member USA 713 Posts	Posted - 23 Oct 2002 : 11:12:47 I run a 25 MHz 040 with my 33 MHz LC 575 and it works great. I just had to take a Big@ss MicroBoxer fan from an old Rodime Systems HD and attach it on top of the processor. There's power available for the fan on the motherboard connectors (the pins that go to black and yellow wires on the wiring harness, IIRC). Just solder the fan wires to the appropriate places and it should work. Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180 PCs liberated from Windoze: 3
candyPunk Full Member USA 856 Posts	Posted - 23 Oct 2002 : 14:45:17 quote: Ok, who's up for the watercooled Quadra? Ohhhhhh no! Don't try it, buddy! Now, some sort of refrigerator-type mecahnism... { candyPunk } { Captain of Observation, 68k MLA } { 68k Macs liberated: 3} { My baby: Q660av }
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 24 Oct 2002 : 00:10:12 For a while now, i have actually been running my LC630 with a heatsink/fan from a Pentium 1 on the LC '040. I don't know how much cooler it is now, but i have noticed that the machine actually feels faster than it did before. I'm not sure what it is, but it just feels a little faster. However, this wonderful cooling idea has a few drawbacks. Firstly, depending on which one you get, it may not fit fully on the chip. DO NOT TURN THE COMPUTER UPSIDE DOWN OR PUT IT ON ITS SIDE. The assembly will fall off the chip, and you will have to open it up and put it back on. Also, not all will fit. Heatsinks that need a little clippy thing that holds them onto the socket in a PC won't work, unles you never move the computer. Also, you will no longer be able to slide the mobo out the back. You will need to take all the paneling off like as if you were going to remove the CD ROM or something, so that you can safely remove the fan before sliding out the mobo. Finally, to get power to the thing, unplug the power connector going to the HD, and take out the chasis harness. Remove the hard drive power cable from its "run", and connect the fan power cable to it. Finally, put the hard disk power cable thats on the fan cable on the "run" that the Performa's cable used to be, and put everything back together. All things considered, its a great way to cool your system! -------------------------- Give your dreams a chance.� - Apple in the mid '90s Warrior maclover5 68k Macintosh Liberation Army Number of 68ks Liberated: 6
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 10 Nov 2002 : 23:10:20 in my 6200, the heat sink from the 6100 would actually fit quite nice.. but those are both PPC machines... and neither of them worked to begin with... so overclocking woul never have been an issue My 575 and Quadra840AV both came with heat sinks... so I'm thinking well and hard... What speed would the 33MHz 575 processor run @ in the 840AV mobo (40MHz) and what speed would the 40MHz 040 run @ in the 575 mobo? Official 68k videographer
elakazal Starting Member USA 16 Posts	Posted - 27 Nov 2002 : 09:06:15 I've got a LC 475 motherboard (in an LC II case), which I've overclocked to 33MHz, and I use a heatsink from an early Pentium on it. I hold it place with a little bent strip of metal I found in the street, which sits on top of the heatsink and wedges things gently but firmly in place when the top's pushed down. Heatsink just set loosely on the chip help some, but making good contact is crucial, so a little pressure (or nifty thermal paste) can make a big difference. Maybe my computer would be fine without the heatsink, but the chip gets hot enough to be quite painful without it, so it makes me nervous. I've heard reports that the 68LC040 is happier being overclocked than the full 68040...something about the FPU not being reliable at high speeds...any one else heard this?
candyPunk Full Member USA 856 Posts	Posted - 27 Nov 2002 : 09:43:24 quote: What speed would the 33MHz 575 processor run @ in the 840AV mobo (40MHz) and what speed would the 40MHz 040 run @ in the 575 mobo? They'd run at the original clock speeds of the mobos. The 33 mhz 68LC040 is probably fine running at the higher speed, though when you get into the 40-50 range, not all can handle it. From what I remember from the clock chipping site, most 33 mhz 040 macs can run safely above 40 mhz, and from what Dana says, I would think that you could go even higher with an LC040. Here's some info on chipping the LC 575. It says that you can run it as high as 43 mhz, and it only stops there because of serial port timing issues, not because the chip was burning up. http://gabezing.sytes.net/LC575-40Mhz-E.html { candyPunk } { Captain of Observation, 68k MLA } { 68k Macs liberated: 4} { My baby: Q660av } Edited by - candyPunk on 27 Nov 2002 09:44:02
Clinton Full Member USA 700 Posts	Posted - 30 Nov 2002 : 17:16:45 why bother using a Pentium Heatsink/Fan, use a 486 combo, they are a lot shorter, (ie you can remove the mobo a LOT easier) and they clip onto the chip as opposed to the socket. I am not sure of the size, but they should fit on there. ya, apple chips get very hot, I have my 8600 and when I operate the bugger without a fan, the heatsink gets too hot to touch!!! good luck CCC Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant) 68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Q650, a Q660AV, and a MacII Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, a PM 8600/300, and a PM8500/180 Apple //s rescued: Apple //e
elakazal Starting Member USA 16 Posts	Posted - 30 Nov 2002 : 20:35:48 Can't speak for other people here, but the reason why I used a Pentium heatsink was because I had it lying around anyway. It's very close to the right size... Although a heatsink that would clip to the chip would be nice, I'd be a little surprised if a 486 sink would fit...the 040 is a significantly larger chip. Glue works pretty well for holding heatsinks on, too, and if you don't use much is not much trouble to get it back off. Just a teensy dot of superglue. Main reason I haven't done it is that I've done so much shuffling parts around...
oldmacman Full Member USA 713 Posts	Posted - 30 Nov 2002 : 21:13:00 I've always used plumber's putty to stick heatsinks to CPUs. It's cheap and it doesn't dry out. Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700 (2), LC 575, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180 PCs liberated from Windoze: 3
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 30 Nov 2002 : 22:32:48 the full 040 runs actually pretty well in the 575... dont know what speed it's running at but its' nice... iThink... didn't reall yplay around with it beause i'm giving it a new home tomorrow... it was really just a tthing that i did to get a friend a better mac than would have been... can't test the Quadra 840av because A) its gone B) it wasn't working anyway but the 575 is maxed oot on RAM and has that full 040 and ethernet and an internal modem in case he wants to run a nixie on it :) i'll look at that overclocking thing too Official 68k videographer
cory5412 68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms USA 4679 Posts	Posted - 30 Nov 2002 : 22:39:48 sorry for this double header posty thing... but i looky at that page... OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!! does the modem or PDS slot (internal modem) on the serial ports???????????? becaues he probably won't be needin the serial ports... and overclocking the internal monitor too!!! that would be SO COOL! I would keep that machine if i could get it to 43MHz (or even higher!) and then I would Overclock the monitor :) I would LOVE "Super68kWorkstation" as I would call it if I could do that... then I just use an ethernet enabled printer ;) for all that cool stuff I'd do in my boxed copy of MacDraw :) and those things have such nice speakers that I'd use it for my HUGE A$$ iPod :) .ME needs some spraypaint, all those parts, a japanese person, a really big SCSI HDD, and something to fix the internal speaker problem that it has :) Official 68k videographer
markymark Junior Member 223 Posts	Posted - 02 Dec 2002 : 21:25:34 I've got a 25Mhz 68040 in my 33Mhz color classic mystic and without a heatsink and fan you could cook on it. I used a 486 heatsink and fan with the fan power lead connected to the hard drive power lead. The fan makes the cpu a lot cooler. Personally I don't think just a heatsink is enough.
markymark Junior Member 223 Posts	Posted - 02 Dec 2002 : 21:50:25 The best solution is to use a heatsink and fan and heatsink compound (or what oldmacman uses) to make sure the cpu to heatsink heat transfer is the maximum. That's the way I do it when I overclock anything. My Nvidia tnt card is also overclocked this way.
candyPunk Full Member USA 856 Posts	Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 15:58:00 You don't want to use MUCH heat transfer goop (heat sink compound) though. Just enough to keep the thing from sliding around; it's much more efficient to get as much direct contact as possible { candyPunk } { Captain of Observation, 68k MLA } { 68k Macs liberated: 4} { My baby: Q660av }
nickweiss Starting Member USA 7 Posts	Posted - 13 Jul 2003 : 16:46:44 dood, the 68040 doesn't even have FPU on the chip, the first processors to have an FPU on the chip was the PowerPC and The Pentium 1 Nick Weiss
thequietman Junior Member Canada 127 Posts	Posted - 13 Jul 2003 : 17:19:11 Ummm... yes it does, actually. That's why you can't add an FPU to an '040 machine unless you replace the 68LC040 with a full 68040. --------------------------------------------- I want to be unique just like everybody else.
G4from128k Full Member USA 873 Posts	Posted - 13 Jul 2003 : 17:39:59 thequietmnan is 100% right. While Intel had a parallel development of CPUs and FPUs (from 8086 & 8087 thru 80486 & 80487), Motorola only made 2 generations of FPUs (68881 and 68882) before integrating the FPU into the CPU with the 68040. The 60LC040 was the FPU-less version of the 68040. G4From128k by Day: Mild-Mannered Engineer and Trapeze(tm) Artist by Night: Colonel of Truth, Justice, and the Macintosh Way Reserve Officer in 68kMLA Cantankerous Coot Contingent
The Balance Of Judgement Senior Member Ivory Coast 1006 Posts	Posted - 13 Jul 2003 : 23:33:15 A tad off topic, but on the 6100 and any other macs whose heat sinks were the same, you could add a fan right on the heatsink by putting the screws inbetween the metal grid on top. If you run any DOS card on the machine, you would need to have the fan upside down, or else the card would get really hot. I'm not sure if the 68k centris/quadra series had the same cpu/heatsink combo as the 6100's did, but the same would apply that if you added a dos card etc., you really should add some sort of fan, because space gets too small for proper ventilation. On the heatsinks mentioned above, the grid rises up from the central contact point on the CPU and rises and opens like a flower. The grid isn't solid but has a line pattern, and each of the open spaces is large enough to have a standard screw enter. You will need to tighten the screw good but not too hard so you ruin the thread. You have to take the CPU fan out of it's normal casing. In my case it was a 486 CPU fan, but I took it out of it's assembly, so I had just the fan by itself, nothing else. The fan will have 4 holes, and you just have to arrange the fan sort of in a opposite pattern to the grid. So, the fan doesn't sit square in extact dimensions or orientation to the CPU, but is 45 degrees off. Point the fan in a normal way to blow onto the CPU, or upside down to blow from the CPU to any card attached if your card is too hot. Just rememeber that you will get a little bit more noise from the fan if it's in upside down. As far as I know it won't shorten it's life though. Most computer places also sell larger fans, and you might be able to find one that your PSU can handle and provide good air flow. It was mentioned on the quadra and centris series if heat was a problem, there was something you could remove on the bottom of the assembly of the case to improve airflow, and that is where you might be able to mod an extra fan in.
nickweiss Starting Member USA 7 Posts	Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 19:59:33 but my question is that is the ROM in the 68LC040 computer copatible with the FPU itself or will it just reject the CPU all together? Nick Weiss
tmtomh Junior Member USA 172 Posts	Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 22:23:40 quote: but my question is that is the ROM in the 68LC040 computer copatible with the FPU itself or will it just reject the CPU all together? The ROM is compatible. Any Mac that comes with a socketed 68LC040 CPU can be upgraded to a full 68040 with FPU. M No rank Permanent 68k roommates: - "PowerMystic" Color Classic, 66MHz PPC601 card, full '040, 36/1.2G/enet, OS 8.1 - "Mystic" Color Classic, full '040, 36/700/enet, OS 8.1
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 15 Jul 2003 : 23:00:40 Exactly. Except for the FPU, the 68040 is exactly the same as the 68LC040. "**** em" - Jobs in regards to customers Warrior maclover5 68kMLA Official 68kMLA Detective Number of 68ks Liberated: 7 Number of Contraband (PPC) Liberated from the Dumpster: 1

68k Macintosh Liberation Army Forums

� 2001-2003 68kMLA

68k of the Week: kastegir's PowerBook 180.