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Clinton
Full Member


USA
700 Posts		 Posted - 01 Oct 2002 :  18:00:18
OK, I know that this has been done before, but here we go again, the NEW AND IMPROVED thread for exposing invincibly ignorant ebayers.

First off, to get the ball rolling http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2058633681
look at the price.
CCC

Lieutennant Commander (Pronounced Leftennant)
Guardian of Obsolete Equipment
68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, and a Quadra 650
Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, and a PM 8600/300
Apple // series rescued: Apple //e
cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 01 Oct 2002 :  18:37:05
Mac Plus with an Imagewriter for $500? Oh wait, reserve isn;t even met yet. :rolleyes:

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
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candyPunk
Full Member


USA
856 Posts		 Posted - 01 Oct 2002 :  19:55:42
How can you tell it's a Plus? My compact mac skills are lacking

{ candyPunk }
{ Captain of Observation, 68k MLA }
{ 68k Macs liberated: 3}
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~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit


Australia
2822 Posts		 Posted - 01 Oct 2002 :  20:07:22
You can tell it's a Plus due to the RJ-12 port on the front (so it can't be a Classic or Classic II) and the colour (so it can't be a Fat Mac or Macintosh.)

~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
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shaktiman
Senior Member


United Kingdom
1226 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  02:18:19
Well at least they spelt cambridge with a small c, the place is hideous & deserves to be demoted, though I am only speaking of cambridge UK.

Perhaps America's cambridge isn't as bad?

shaktiman

Quadra 840av, 128MB ram, 2MB vram, cd drive(caddy),1 caddy!:-)
1.2 gig drive, 4.23 gig drive
3 monitors 15" & 14" & 14" os 8.1 56k modem,
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AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  05:16:07
The guy selling it probably took the back cover off of it, saw that it was "signed" by the Macintosh team, and figured it must be worth a lot...

AnubisTTP, Tank Commander, Bolo Division
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:22Go to Top of Page
Stryder
Junior Member


USA
382 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  08:03:38
It could also be an earlier model: 512k, 128k. The guy may have thought "Classic" if he went to the Apple site's Specs. page:

http://www.info.apple.com/support/applespec.legacy/index.html

They're all grouped together as "Classic Macs". This is of course a possiblity, another would be the guy is a moron to not look through eBay to see what others were going for to compare by.

"One slip and down the hole we fall"

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MrLynn
Junior Member


USA
394 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  09:00:30
quote:

You can tell it's a Plus due to the RJ-12 port on the front

What was that RJ-12 port for? The printer?

By SE-time there were no ports on the front.

/Mr Lynn

Curator of: SE (6.0.4), SE w. 020 accelerator (6.0.8), SE w. no HD, IIfx (7.1), IIci (bad HD); plus various PPCs in family (blue G3/350 is main Mac these days).Go to Top of Page
~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit


Australia
2822 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  09:18:11
Keyboard.
By the SE, they used ADB.

~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
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Marchie
Chaplain


USA
911 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  10:59:01
The SE was the first computer to havee ADB ports. Previous to that, mice connected with a DB 9 serial port in the back of the computer, and the keyboard connected with an RJ11/12 jack. While it may LOOK like a standard phone or Phonenet cord.. it's not, and useing onee to connect the keeyboard to the Mac will fry one or both of the controller chips. Most likely both.

I really have to get used to typing on the iBook keyboard, I keeep getting doubbled letters.

~Marchie

~Chaplain Marchie
Admin of The WonderLAN
~~"We are all Mad here"~~Go to Top of Page
Kyusaku Natsume
Starting Member


USA
24 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  10:59:08
It isn't a Plus, it's gotta be one of the earlier models. Dug up some auctions that look valid and there's a few differences between the older Macs and the Plus.
The Apple logo and name on a Plus are level with the disk drive. The older ones have the logo a bit below.
The area around the front port on the older models is indented, the Plus is not.
None of the older models have a name on the front(guessing it's on the back only?), but the Plus does.

128k auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2054820583
512k auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2054570680
Plus auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2053452030

So he has one of the original 128k or 512k models I think. $500 is still way too much, regardless.

Otaku-in-training; Specialties in Anime, Macs, Storms
Liberated Macs: 5 In progress: 11Go to Top of Page
ehurtley
New Member


USA
63 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  11:09:35
quote:

OK, I know that this has been done before, but here we go again, the NEW AND IMPROVED thread for exposing invincibly ignorant ebayers.

First off, to get the ball rolling http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2058633681
look at the price.
CCC

Okay, my observations:

1. It is either a Macintosh 128k, or a Macintosh 512k. I can tell this because: It is the right color (beige, not platinum), it has no model name on the front. A Plus most definitely says 'Plus' just to the right of the Apple logo on the front.

2. It does indeed look to be in good condition. If it is in true mint condition, a collector would be willing to pay a decent sum for it.

3. That is an ImageWriter under it. Also apepars to be in good condition.

4. It does not mention if it comes with original packing material/disks/manuals/etc. If it *DOES* come with all original material, $500 is a reasonable starting price, as the auction could easily exceed $1000. If it does not include all the extras, then he'd be lucky if the ending price would exceed $500, even with dedicated collectors bidding on it.

Proud Liberator of over 25 Macintoshes!Go to Top of Page
AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  13:35:15
quote:

The SE was the first computer to havee ADB ports. Previous to that, mice connected with a DB 9 serial port in the back of the computer, and the keyboard connected with an RJ11/12 jack.


Didn't the Apple IIgs have ADB ports before the SE?

AnubisTTP, Tank Commander, Bolo Division
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:22Go to Top of Page
cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  14:15:28
quote:
Didn't the Apple IIgs have ADB ports before the SE?

Yeah...he meant to say the first Mac with ADB ports!

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  17:31:15
quote:

quote:
Didn't the Apple IIgs have ADB ports before the SE?

Yeah...he meant to say the first Mac with ADB ports!


Live and learn! I never knew the IIgs pre-dated the SE! I wonder if it was an outgrowth of the Cassie prototype interface or if it was a parallel development?

http://www.applefritter.com/prototypes/cassie/index.html

Who's got a copy of AppleDesign?

jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAFGo to Top of Page
cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  17:52:12
quote:
http://www.applefritter.com/prototypes/cassie/index.html

Who's got a copy of AppleDesign?

I don't, but that reminds me...one of these days, one of us has to hack together a tribute "Babymac"! Just need to paint an Apple RGB or similar display white and hack floppy drive/LC mobo inside it (somehow).

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
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My Hotline Server: 840av.sytes.net
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asan9000
New Member


USA
59 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  17:54:16
the iigs was released 1 year before the SE, and I beleive was the last non-mac computer.

Now what i don't understand? if they had color displays ever since the apple II, then why on earth would they release the compact macs - all the way up to the SE/30 - with 1-bit b&w displays?

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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  18:21:48
quote:
Now what I don't understand? if they had color displays ever since the apple II, then why on earth would they release the compact macs - all the way up to the SE/30 - with 1-bit b&w displays?

The easiest answer to that is that color CRT's were prohibitively expensive back then. For a modern day example, it would be like Apple putting a 23" Cinema display on the iMac...nobody would pay the extra $3500 premium just to have a gigantic display on an entry-level mac.

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
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My Hotline Server: 840av.sytes.net
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~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit


Australia
2822 Posts		 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 :  18:32:21
quote:

the iigs was released 1 year before the SE, and I beleive was the last non-mac computer.

Unless you go into STB/Pippin territory, or you include Newtons...
I hate people that call my Newton a 'Mac.'

~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
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MrLynn
Junior Member


USA
394 Posts		 Posted - 03 Oct 2002 :  08:23:00
quote:

The easiest answer to that is that color CRT's were prohibitively expensive back then.

The Apple II used color CRTs. Perhaps the SE's resolution was much higher than the Apple II's, so the difference would be between low- and high-resolution color CRTs.

The SEs were not cheap, BTW.

/Mr Lynn

Curator of: SE (6.0.4), SE w. 020 accelerator (6.0.8), SE w. no HD, IIfx (7.1), IIci (bad HD); plus various PPCs in family (blue G3/350 is main Mac these days).Go to Top of Page
Marchie
Chaplain


USA
911 Posts		 Posted - 03 Oct 2002 :  08:44:10
Remember that SOME Pluses were Platinum and SOME where Beige.

I've had both at one time or another.

I never actually looked at the pictures, but yes, a Plus has it's name on the front. The 128k, 512k and 512ke didn't have names on the front, just a big Apple.

Too bad there is not more info. It could seriously change the price of things, ie if it's a 512ke with SCSI upgrade, or added RAM, or a `128 with manuals as suggesteerd.

~Marchie

~Chaplain Marchie
Admin of The WonderLAN
~~"We are all Mad here"~~Go to Top of Page
macvaya
Starting Member



7 Posts		 Posted - 03 Oct 2002 :  09:45:09
quote:

The easiest answer to that is that color CRT's were prohibitively expensive back then. For a modern day example, it would be like Apple putting a 23" Cinema display on the iMac...nobody would pay the extra $3500 premium just to have a gigantic display on an entry-level mac.


The expensive part is absolutely correct. The early macs were
not cheap, but there were very few computers that were anything
like them (I'm can think offhand of something running an OS like VisiOn, and the Lisa of course. Keep in mind that neither of these were very successful!) Adding the price of a colour monitor would have priced them somewhere in the NeXT box range, if not higher (and some of the NeXT machines had monochrome displays too, several years later.)

I seem to recall reading that the original design specs for the project that eventually became the Mac included a tag price which was on the fair side of $1000, including colour and a built-in printer. Even without them it didn't come anywhere close to that. (I *think* I remember the first Mac having a price tag around $2,499, but don't hold me to it.) From an interview with Jef Raskin I read a few years ago (could the sources here get any more vague?), one of the things the Mac team kept in mind was how wonderful the original Lisa was, but how slow it was and bloated the ticket price became. And maybe someone can correct me, but I think the last Lisa model (rebranded as the Macintosh XL) actually had a faster processor than the original Mac.

Cheers,


Cali

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SpaceBoy
Full Member


USA
631 Posts		 Posted - 03 Oct 2002 :  10:06:58
quote:
the iigs was released 1 year before the SE, and I beleive was the last non-mac computer.

Well, if you want to get nit-picky, you could argue that the IIGSWoz Edition was the last non-Mac computer... Not to mention some of those mammoth WorkGroupServers, that only ran AIX...
Just trying to cause trouble,
SpaceBoy

AppleBASIC FOREVER!
As of 4/8/02:
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PB 1400/133, "KayPro II"
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iMac Rev.A/333mHz, "Deep Blue"
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AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 03 Oct 2002 :  12:14:08
Not to mention the XServe.

AnubisTTP, Tank Commander, Bolo Division
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:22Go to Top of Page
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 03 Oct 2002 :  12:39:32
quote:

quote:

The easiest answer to that is that color CRT's were prohibitively expensive back then. For a modern day example, it would be like Apple putting a 23" Cinema display on the iMac...nobody would pay the extra $3500 premium just to have a gigantic display on an entry-level mac.


The expensive part is absolutely correct. The early macs were
not cheap, but there were very few computers that were anything
like them (I'm can think offhand of something running an OS like VisiOn, and the Lisa of course. Keep in mind that neither of these were very successful!) Adding the price of a colour monitor would have priced them somewhere in the NeXT box range, if not higher (and some of the NeXT machines had monochrome displays too, several years later.)


The games the Mac design team played to get the off cycles of system memory to act as video memory go a long way toward explaining why mac video was set up the way it was and why even the SE/30 lacked grayscale capability. The 128 was originally intended to ship as a 512k, IIRC, the price of memory at the time was a major limitation in the design parameters.

Color was in its infancy until VGA was introduced in 1987 and Mac Video was just one of the many standards in development. Remember that the first built in video implementation on the MAC was the crappy setup in the IIci. What was the first truly usable mobo based Color Mac?

jt ™.
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 03 Oct 2002 :  14:04:40
quote:
What was the first truly usable mobo based Color Mac?

As far as I can tell, the Quadra 700/900. Everything before them either used partial RAM or shared/expandable VRAM (IIsi, LC) to obtain color display. The 700 and 900 were the first to have real, discreet, upgradable VRAM. since they were both introduced on the same day (October 21, 1991), I couldn't say which one was "first"...

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
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~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit


Australia
2822 Posts		 Posted - 03 Oct 2002 :  19:28:20
quote:

And maybe someone can correct me, but I think the last Lisa model (rebranded as the Macintosh XL) actually had a faster processor than the original Mac.

Nah, the Lisa/Mac XL had 5 MHz 68000 processors, but they had 2MB of RAM. However, the Lisa OS was written in Pascal whereas System 1 was written in straight 68000 assembler.

~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 08 Oct 2002 :  14:46:28
Here's a good one. The product itself isn't that terrible...derivitave and poorly executed maybe, but it's the seller's incoherent description of it and the fact that it was listed as a Mac that takes the cake.

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
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My Hotline Server: 840av.sytes.net
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Slomac636
Junior Member


USA
103 Posts		 Posted - 09 Oct 2002 :  06:21:43
I was poking around one evening and stumbled across this thing, I believe it was either a Korean or Chinese site that had it. Looking at the text in this auction, I'd say the copy writer probably uses english as a second language. I'm sure it's just another iMac knock-off like those horrid gateways and others.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I find anything from the Wintel world that tries to be their "iMac" pretty distasteful, THEY JUST DON"T GET IT! they think an AIO design and some bundled software is going to make me switch, they better wake up and smell the coffee, they'll have to pry my cold dead fingers from my Mac!!! - Sorry about the rant, I haven't had any coffee yet this morning, cheers!

Macs Liberated: 9 - 6400/180, 660AV, 636CD, LCIII+, LCII (2), Classic II, Classic and SE. Yeah, I hate that friggin beach ball too...Go to Top of Page
boredomconquersall
Full Member


Canada
613 Posts		 Posted - 09 Oct 2002 :  22:00:26
heh. I saw the gateway commercials... they OUTRIGHT LIE!
a) "more space!" WRONG! Imacs come standard with 40GB HD's, and those come with 20GB standard
b) "faster!" yeah. faster in MHz. but proformance? that's another story! with celeron under the hood of that computer, you get to pay for 400-1000 redudndant MHz! in proformance tests that I have done, i have found that celerons proform about as well as a watered down PII would do at those MHz "speeds". also, they don't allow you to go past GEforce 2MX, while the Imac gets GEforce 4MX (GEforce 2MX isn't a half bad card, even in a peecee)
c) "can run more software!" WRONG! with virtual PC, you can run allmost every PC program (exept some higher end games) and all the mac proggies and games too!
d) "has more RAM!" nope. they have equal RAM, but if you count how much windows XP hogs...
e) "cheaper!" true, in the lower end one, but in the other ones, you get more bang for your buck out of the Imac! with the high end gateway, you get...
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.66GHz
512MB DDR SDRAM
120GB 7200RPM HD
Integrated 16x/10x/24x CDRW / 8X DVD Combo <--- wow. impresive.
17.0" LCD Flat Panel Display
2000$USD
gateway computers tend to fail, on average, 2 years after they are bought, and windows XP hogs a lot of that RAM and CPU and HD

but with apple, you get
17-inch widescreen LCD flat
800MHz PowerPC G4
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
256MB SDRAM
CD-RW/DVD-R superdrive <------ Iwant!
80GB Ultra ATA hard drive <------ ATA166 instead of ATA100
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers <------ Iwant!
2000$USD
and the Imac has FireWire, and, the well known and loved unix based OS, mac OS10.X

not to mention their logo is a tomeato (which can be used as nuclear weapons)(yes, I like the dilbert TV show.)

ThNXXNXNXNXNnxncncThnxdh!
"we eat 4 square meals a day!"

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Slomac636
Junior Member


USA
103 Posts		 Posted - 11 Oct 2002 :  00:14:36
Two other things Gateway chose NOT to mention about their Profile machine:

1. It uses ANALOG video instead of the the iMac's digital, result: dimmer screen image, more eye strain, less sharpness & contrast.
2. DVD/RW is NOT an option on the Gateway, its just not available. If you want to make DVD movies on a Gateway you gotta spend more $$$.

AND ITS REALLY, REALLY ugly..and stupid looking too.

Macs Liberated: 9 - 6400/180 (main Mac), 660AV, 636CD, LCIII+, LCII (2), Classic II, Classic and SE.

Yeah, I hate that friggin beach ball too...Go to Top of Page
   

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