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 upgrading a quadra 840av to PPC..?
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bluepxl
Starting Member


USA
22 Posts		 Posted - 24 Aug 2002 :  12:47:06
hi, i have a powermac 8500 that i upgraded to a 9500 with a card off of ebay. so now i have an old apple 8500 card just laying around. and i was wondering... would it be possible to upgrade my quadra 840av to that PPC 8500? some websites i've read claim that it's IMPOSSIBLE... others say it is. that's sort of confusing... can someone tell me if it's possible or not once and for all, and how so? thanks!
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 24 Aug 2002 :  13:05:46
quote:

that's sort of confusing... can someone tell me if it's possible or not once and for all, and how so? thanks!

i don't know if it's possible, but it might not be advisable as it'd be a downgrade in some aspects according to some interesting info on lowendmac.

http://www.lowendmac.com/archive/01/0816.html

if i were you, i'd hack that 8500 board into a PC case (or 8100 maybe?) and play with Video on the 840av as is!

and welcome to the 68kMLA!

jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAFGo to Top of Page
shaktiman
Senior Member


United Kingdom
1226 Posts		 Posted - 24 Aug 2002 :  14:15:53
This post touched a raw nerve for me.

My first question was why?

then as trash says it is downgrading.

now can I buy a 8100 ppc mac & upgrade it to an 860av?

I have a smile on my face:-)

shaktiman

Quadra 840av 128MB ram 2MB vram cd drive(caddy),1 caddy!:-)1.44 floppy drive,inject :-(1.2 gig drive
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 24 Aug 2002 :  14:40:15
quote:

now can I buy a 8100 ppc mac & upgrade it to an 860av?

I have a smile on my face:-)


HAR!™ between my constant kidding around dissing 840av's, and your Quixotic Quest for the 68060 Mac, this is one interesting alliance trying to preserve one poor '040 boxie, shak!

8100 cases aren't any better than the 840av, from what i can see. now a Video Production oriented project, putting an 840av board into a Big@$$ PC case would be a great hack!

jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAFGo to Top of Page
mattminserlg15
New Member



70 Posts		 Posted - 24 Aug 2002 :  19:42:46
The 840av was one of the few macs that did not have any sort of PDS expanison slot. Therefore, there is no sort of card that will allow a processor upgrade of any sort. The only possible upgrade for the 840Av is a mobo swap with: a QUadra 800 then add 601 PPC upgrade card, or a PowerMac 8100, or 8500 or 8600.

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SiliconValleyPirate
Junior Member


United Kingdom
273 Posts		 Posted - 25 Aug 2002 :  02:24:09
quote:

The 840av was one of the few macs that did not have any sort of PDS expanison slot.

Not true - the PDS slot is a tiny black in-line connector behind the top NuBus slot. It is used on AV cards such as the Spigot PAV. It is PDS but you can't use it for CPU functions as it's instruction set is set up for AV functions. It is also present on the HPV cards on the x100 PowerMacs, which themselves plug into the PDS slot, too and is connected to the Spigot card by a small ribbon cable.

quote:

Therefore, there is no sort of card that will allow a processor upgrade of any sort.

Unless you can find a bigger MHz 040 PGA unit and a new clock xtal but then I think the machine would start to buckle under the strain as 40MHz is about as much as that architecture can take, I think the maximum stable over-clock is 47MHz but that might be lmited by the CPU, not the board.

quote:

The only possible upgrade for the 840Av is a mobo swap with: a QUadra 800 then add 601 PPC upgrade card, or a PowerMac 8100, or 8500 or 8600.

Shame no-one did Radius Rocket style NuBus 601 cards for 68k/601 Macs. That'd have been relly cool - an 840av running a 40MHz 040 AND an 80 MHz 601!

--
Mark Benson

FlatPackMacs http://fpm.gotdns.com

2nd Lieutenant - 68kMLA, LC Quartermaster
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jruschme
Junior Member


USA
196 Posts		 Posted - 25 Aug 2002 :  07:42:10
quote:

hi, i have a powermac 8500 that i upgraded to a 9500 with a card off of ebay. so now i have an old apple 8500 card just laying around. and i was wondering... would it be possible to upgrade my quadra 840av to that PPC 8500? some websites i've read claim that it's IMPOSSIBLE... others say it is. that's sort of confusing... can someone tell me if it's possible or not once and for all, and how so? thanks!

To give you an idea of what's involved, Shreve Systems used to offer a trade-in to upgrade an 840AV to an 8500. They would send you a stripped 8500 (no drives, sleds, or bezels) in return for cash plus your 840AV motherboard. The idea was that you moved over the drives and bezels, then trashed the empty 840AV case and PS.

I know because my 840AV started as the resulting empty case.

<<<john>>>

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maclover5
LC Doctor/Hot Rodder


Australia
5830 Posts		 Posted - 25 Aug 2002 :  14:22:36
As people have stated here, it IS possible to upgrade a Q840AV to a PPC, but its not worth the trouble, especially if you want to use it as an AV machine...the AV stuffins on the PPCs, although they aren't bad, are just CRAP compared to that of the 840AV! And besides, its more work than its worth. If you want a PPC, buy it seperately and put it next to your 840AV. Leave the 840AV AS IS. Its a very nice machine.

--------------------------

"I keep my friends close, but I keep my enemies closer" - Unkown

Warrior maclover5
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Number of 68ks Liberated: 6
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 26 Aug 2002 :  11:51:21
What they said.

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
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bluepxl
Starting Member


USA
22 Posts		 Posted - 28 Aug 2002 :  19:57:28
you guys sure you're not just biased against 68k??? hehe... you guys are acting like "why?!" well, because i have a PPC 8500 processor just laying around collecting dust. i figured why not! there are some PPC apps i would like to run on the 840av. and currently i'm using the 8500 (9500) as an AV machine, so the 840 is just sitting around not doing much. i'd like to be able to at least get it running a few fun PPC apps... :p

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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 28 Aug 2002 :  20:00:37
Find a Quadra 800 and use it instead!

Trust me, the Quadra 840av is just one of those machines you don't mess with, leave well enough alone!

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 28 Aug 2002 :  20:22:05
quote:

"why?!" well, because i have a PPC 8500 processor just laying around collecting dust. i figured why not! there are some PPC apps i would like to run on the 840av. and currently i'm using the 8500 (9500) as an AV machine, so the 840 is just sitting around not doing much. i'd like to be able to at least get it running a few fun PPC apps... :p

i can't figure out why you ever put that 9500 board into an 8500 box at all? you should have put the 9500 in a PC case with lots of power and bays, for an AV machine even a 9500 case is inadequate, IMHO. how did you get it to fit in the smaller case and why would you give up half your slots?

this almost sounds like a troll to me.

jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAFGo to Top of Page
oldmacman
Full Member


USA
713 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  14:23:56
I take it you mean a processor card upgrade, and not the whole motherboard? If you only have the PPC processor card, then you can't do a motherboard swap with what's in the 840av.

The reason not to do a complete motherboard swap with an 8500 is that you'd lose all the cool AV capabilities.

Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert
OpenStep Page at http://openstep.topcities.com/
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bluepxl
Starting Member


USA
22 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  14:32:58
umm, i just installed a 9500/200 PPC processor card in place of an 8500 one. it made the computer much faster-- that's why i did it. seems like everyone has a problem with me and my upgrade :( !!

and you guys seem to keep praising the amazing abilities of the 840av to do AV work. i may be naive... but like what? anything i've tried was very minimal and crappy looking. hardly any space to capture anything, and real low resolution captures at that. so... what is it you guys speak of? what i'd mostly like to use the 840av for is midi sequencing. would it be good for that?Go to Top of Page
bluepxl
Starting Member


USA
22 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  14:34:41
quote:

umm, i just installed a 9500/200 PPC processor card in place of an 8500 one. it made the computer much faster-- that's why i did it. seems like everyone has a problem with me and my upgrade :( !! i did NO motherboard changes or anything else for that matter. just the processor!

and you guys seem to keep praising the amazing abilities of the 840av to do AV work. i may be naive... but like what? anything i've tried was very minimal and crappy looking. hardly any space to capture anything, and real low resolution captures at that. so... what is it you guys speak of? what i'd mostly like to use the 840av for is midi sequencing. would it be good for that?

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bluepxl
Starting Member


USA
22 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  14:36:18
oops, sorry about above-- i thought that icon was to edit my post. why can't i edit? hmph! anyway, the second post is what i intended.

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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  14:56:03
quote:
and you guys seem to keep praising the amazing abilities of the 840av to do AV work. i may be naive... but like what? anything i've tried was very minimal and crappy looking. hardly any space to capture anything, and real low resolution captures at that. so... what is it you guys speak of? what i'd mostly like to use the 840av for is midi sequencing. would it be good for that?

Well, the 840av is a great machine, but if want good quality video it's not going to do it right out of the box. If you add one of two Nubus video accelerator cards, either the SuperMac SigotPower AV or Radius SpigotPro AV, you can digitize full screen (640x480) full motion (30fps) NTSC video. Of course, you also need fast/big disk access. An FWB JackHammer or an ATTO SiliconExpress IV nubus card will give you 20MB theoretical max Ultra-Wide SCSI access. If you connect two ultra-wide drives of the same size, you can also turn them into a striped RAID, which will capture data even faster.

As for MIDI sequencing, you can do that without a lot of extra hardware. Just get a MIDI breakout box that connects to the Quadra's serial port, I see them go on eBay all the time for cheap. Throw in a good sequencer like Deck II, etc., and you're good to go.

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
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bluepxl
Starting Member


USA
22 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  16:18:18
oh, i think i can see now why i was confusing everyone-- the processor is a 604e 200 mhz, from a 9500.

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  16:47:56
quote:

oh, i think i can see now why i was confusing everyone-- the processor is a 604e 200 mhz, from a 9500.

When you said card, we thought you meant the "Main Logic Board", which would be Apple's convention in their literature a "Card" is an expansion device that goes into an interface slot, while you were talking apbut a "Daughtercard", IIRC. "Board" and "Card" distinctions are fairly consistent in Apple's Literature, but i haven't read much about PPC's yet so I'm not as familiar with that terminology.

You should try playing with ChromaKey and Overlay in Video Editing on the 840 AV, that article on LEM has descriptions of some interesting features.

jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAFGo to Top of Page
cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  16:50:21
I understand now, we thought you were trying to put the 9500 mobo in an 8500 case. Sorry!

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
My Site: http://cine.sytes.net
My Hotline Server: 840av.sytes.net
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oldmacman
Full Member


USA
713 Posts		 Posted - 29 Aug 2002 :  18:59:47
quote:
what i'd mostly like to use the 840av for is midi sequencing. would it be good for that?

Midiman made some serial MIDI interfaces you might want to look into, and there are tons of sequencers available that will run on the 840AV. Look on Hotline - search at http://www.tracker-tracker.com/ under server for "68k" and see if you can find an older version of Logic, Cubase, Vision Studio Pro, etc.

The 840AV also makes an excellent multitrack audio workstation. Get ProTools, a DigiDesign AudioMedia NuBus card, and the RAID setup ElCine was describing, and you'll have yourself a studio. Also, IIRC, the onboard 840AV audio is supported by DigiTrax and Deck II.

Official 68kMLA Music and NeXT Expert
OpenStep Page at http://openstep.topcities.com/
Macs Liberated: SE (2), LC, IIsi, PB 145b, Quadra 700, 6100 (2), PB 5300, PowerMac 5400/200, Performa 6400/180
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