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 Capitilism, Communism, or Socialism?
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TiMacLover
Senior Member


USA
1282 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  01:32:50
For me I believe in all three! Mostly the views of Lenin and Marx reflect mine in a sense. Though a perfect govermental system would have some of all these, I understand for most who think Communism is a bad thing, the Soviet made it that with the help of Stalin and his unyielding bad rulling. I would like to know your guy's take on goverment system and how you think they could work better for you and the people.

Jeremy

"I'll see you on the Dark Side Of The Moon" - Pink Floyd

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Captain Z
Mobile Ops Commander


USA
637 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  05:13:51
quote:
I understand for most who think Communism is a bad thing, the Soviet made it that with the help of Stalin and his unyielding bad rulling.

The main problem with Soviet Communism was not that there was bad ruling specificly, but rather the human spirit. Human kind is driven by a value of self worth. The more items of value you possess, the more you consider yourself of value. It is natural that one person would want something over another person, too seem "more important".

Under communism, there is this want to raise your status by having more, but no way of getting more. The only people able of obtaining more are the ruling class, which eventually become greedy.

The only way I can see communism working would be if everyone worked toward the common goal, with noone wanting any more than they need.

quote:
I would like to know your guy's take on goverment system and how you think they could work better for you and the people.

Closest form of government that I think would be better would be some sort of Democratic-Republic or Federation or something. Something where the people hold some power, and the government has some. The only way it would work though is if everyone collectively worked towards bettering themselves (not through wealth) and bettering all people within the government.

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shaktiman
Senior Member


United Kingdom
1226 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  06:14:48
contention

lol

What I have learnt is this,

Communism may have worked in 1700 & it may work in 2070 but that dosn't mean that it will work today in the here and now.

I have found that I have a racial view of late of the world. I am earnestly attempting to interact successfully with the world & trying to get the world to do the same.

Life beat me a couple of years ago now. I since became humble. I think I hit maturity.

America scares the s**t out of me. but even here I am reaching out to the American ppl.

I have contensious views but that is the nature of politics.

There is no "right" & there is no "wrong" there is only popular opinion.

I went into a burger joint & the guy dropped my burger on the floor. He picked it up, dusted it off as if it was "all ok". "what about the germs" I said. "oh germs don't exist", he said " germs are just something they made up in order to sell you detergents"

These forums are working for me at the moment & are a "political force".

so there is your answer, 68kmla is my political allegience & I recognise no other.

shaktiman

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Marchie
Chaplain


USA
911 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  09:04:24
My first contention is that we must all remember that Marxism is based in older writs of communism, but also mandates anti-semitism, Kill all the Jews. Not my idea of a plan for the world.

Second, I don't like the governments path in the US today. Bush is, frankly, an idiot, and the worst thing to happen to this country since 1776. The second worst thing is Disney, since it's trying to destory the Public Domian, in which I beleive we cannot have a society without.

I beleive in a government of little power, specific duties:

~Provide a military
~Provide a civil service
~Public education thru an Associates degree (possibly further, see below)
~maintain the transit and travel system, includeing nationwide mass transit
~Provide a public health system, physical and mental, free for all citizens

State governments may be entitled, but public demand, to perform more duties, but that's about it.

I beleive that every citizen has an obligation to serve the rest of it's population, being an active part of their own governance. You don't have a choice not to vote. You vote, every time, unless you're in a coma.

As far as civil service goes, All citizens should be required to serve the country in some capacity. Whether it's in the military, or the civil service. What you do will also determine certain benefits you receive. Join the military for 6-8 years, or the upper echelon of the civil service, and you'll have your higher education, all of it, paid for completely.

What is the Civil service? It's the citizens working in the court systems, medical, fire, police... it's working in schools, the public libraries. Public Works, civil engineering. Garbage collecting.

Refuse to serve in such capacity? You always have that choice, and you realize that you'll need pay for your education past the government supplied Associates programme, and you'll never see a Social Security check in your life, but you'll pay just as much in taxes.

~Marchie

~Chaplain Marchie
Admin of The WonderLAN
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Hivemind
Starting Member


Liechtenstein
21 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  09:08:34
Trikee topic

Proud owner of the UnSignature™Go to Top of Page

TiMacLover
Senior Member


USA
1282 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  12:29:44
quote:
Captain Z

The main problem with Soviet Communism was not that there was bad ruling specificly, but rather the human spirit. Human kind is driven by a value of self worth. The more items of value you possess, the more you consider yourself of value. It is natural that one person would want something over another person, too seem "more important".


I agree, the Soviets fell also because of there lack of belief in a higher god.


quote:
Marchie

What is the Civil service? It's the citizens working in the court systems, medical, fire, police... it's working in schools, the public libraries. Public Works, civil engineering. Garbage collecting.


I know what you are talking about, a friend who is a member of the mormon chruch was telling me of the same thing with the services with the people all working and he said if a road needed to be paved or built over something an entire village/town of people would help in.

Interested views so far, I am itching to see those views from other members.

Jeremy

"I'll see you on the Dark Side Of The Moon" - Pink Floyd

Covert Ops
68k Hacks General
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Edited by - TiMacLover on 24 Jul 2002 12:30:54Go to Top of Page

Wonkothesane
Full Member


USA
506 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  16:31:44
Nice thread....
IMHO, St. Simon had the coolest idea. Socialism in general, however, is flawed in concept because it assumes that all people are perfect, that everyone will work only to better themselves and help out others. Capitalism is flawed as well, as it encourages materialism and greed, which is a Bad Thing (Enron, WorldCom, Martha Stewart, thieves- need I say more?). Communism was meant to be like Socialism, in which there is no state (Marx said that the state was a tool for the bourgoisie and would not be necessary after the Revolution), but in every implementation it was turned into an oppressive system under the control of an inefficient and very corrupt beurocracy.
I would like to see a goverment that has a legislature in which the people themselves vote (very simple yes-or-no votes) on issues, so that there are no corrupt politicians or incompetent beurocrats in the system. All goverment services like education should be under the direct control of the people as well.
Since that would never work, I think government should be very limited, just takikng care of some organizations, it should not be too bloated. Basically, I agree with Marchie's reform, he should be President!
(BTW, my nickname this year in school was "Communist". I can't remember how I got it)

Wonko The Sane
Engineer-in-training
3 Macs Liberated
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~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit


Australia
2822 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  17:20:57
Short of an immortal benevolent dictator, there is no perfect system of government. I think that most forms of democracy are inefficient, but they're the best that we have.

~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
Mayor of NuBus City v3.0
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TiMacLover
Senior Member


USA
1282 Posts
Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  18:36:31
Here are some topics that might interest you the first is on Vietnam and the opinions on rather is was nessary or not. The second is the same as this thread but with responses from SpyMac Members.

http://www.spymac.com/forums/?board=9&action=display&threadid=5351&start=0

http://www.spymac.com/forums/?board=9;action=display;threadid=5315;start=0

Jeremy

"I'll see you on the Dark Side Of The Moon" - Pink Floyd

Covert Ops
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Macs Liberated:19
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