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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  10:08:41
I set up the ethernet hub I got from bigsadhu last night in an attempt to share the TCP/IP connection from my cable modem amongst three of my macs (7500, Q840av and Duo 280c). I only have patch cables, and not crossovers, so I expected to be able to get TCP/IP on all of them, but not AppleTalk. Turns out the reverse was true.

With the cable modem/router connected to the link port and the three macs all connected to other ports, I was able to AppleTalk all of them (very cool ) but no TCP/IP was transferring (bummer ). I then realized that you only need crossover cables to AppleTalk when you're going directly from one machine to another, not when using a hub (duh!). However, I still don't know why the cable modem isn't syncing.

The lights on the cable modem, when connected to the link port, indicate that it isn't getting any return signal, and therefore shuts down transmission. I should be using the link port, right? I tried it in regular ports and there was no change...what am I doing wrong?

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Edited by - cinemafia on 12 Jun 2002 10:09:36
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  10:54:17
quote:

I should be using the link port, right? I tried it in regular ports and there was no change...what am I doing wrong?

my DSL modem is attached to the uplink on my hub and works fine. won't work as a standard link at all. are you using PPPOE? they have me using MacPoet (or some such) thas' all i know!

jt ™.
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  11:18:53
Right, the cable modem goes to the uplink port on the hub, and the rest of the patch cables go to the machines. Is there anything software based I have to do? The problem is the modem is shutting down, because it doesn't see anything that's it's connected to. RoadRunner says it's possible and that I have 5 good IP's, but of course won't provide any support for actually setting it up...

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  11:24:23
quote:

RoadRunner says it's possible and that I have 5 good IP's, but of course won't provide any support for actually setting it up...

ya got me? is it possible you need and don't have (or the opposite, whatever) either a crossover or a straight thru patch cord for the uplink, i don't have a clue which mine uses at this point.

other than what i've posted already, i'd have to put a bid in for a clue on eBay!

=8-\

jt ™.
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  11:29:11
Maybe I do need a crossover from the hub to the modem, though when I asked about this way back on 'Fritter, everybody said you only need a patch cable between cable modem and hub! I dunno, it'as certainly worth a shot!

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QuadraJets
Junior Member


USA
344 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  12:57:22
Yes. Try a crossover b/t the modem and the uplink port on the hub.

Many hubs have a switch on them that can make the "uplink" port an uplink port, or a standard port. Port 1 (set to normal) on my 24 port hub is connected to the uplink (set to uplink) port on the router. The 5 port hub in the garage has its switch set to "port 1:uplink", and it is connected to a standard port on the router. the uplink switch basically makes the port "cross over", as if a crossover cable was used between the hub/modem/router.

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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  13:51:09
Yeah, I think I do need a crossover cable, in that event. Does anybody have one they could trade? I only need about 3 feet.

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Edited by - cinemafia on 12 Jun 2002 14:02:37Go to Top of Page
AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  13:52:17
You are going to want to connect the router to a normal port with a straight-through cable, or to the uplink with a crossover. The deal is, there has to be an odd number of crossovers between each device on the network. The hub crosses over each port, so if you try to connect two hubs together with a normal cable, it will not work, because there is an even number of crossovers. The uplink port does not crossover, so when you connect the uplink port to a normal port on another hub with a normal cable, there will be only one crossover. That is the only reason the uplink port is there. Hooking the router to it with a normal cable gives you 0 crossovers, which is why it is not working.


AnubisTTP, Tank Commander, Bolo Division
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
Macs Liberated:21Go to Top of Page
cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  14:07:21
My kingdom for a 3' crossover cable! Seriously...I'm banned from eBay and I don't have any cash...somebody help me!

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
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I Have No Legs!

Edited by - cinemafia on 12 Jun 2002 14:07:50Go to Top of Page
Eft37
Junior Member


USA
193 Posts		 Posted - 12 Jun 2002 :  14:57:54
Cinemafia-
Is there a router somewhere in your config between the modem and the new hub?
Might be that the modem doesn't know who it should be talking to.
-Eft


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MrLynn
Junior Member


USA
394 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  05:54:10
To link more than one Mac to a cable modem, and share one ISP connection, you need a *router*.

Check out DealMac.com for good deals.

/Mr Lynn

Curator of: SE (6.0.4), SE w. 020 accelerator (6.0.8), SE w. no HD, IIfx (7.1), IIci (bad HD); plus various PPCs in family (blue G3/350 is main Mac these days).Go to Top of Page
thelip
Full Member


USA
729 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  07:44:48
Macs can share one cable connection fine with a hub. My pcs, could not. Second of all, some hubs share the uplink port with another port on the hub. for example.

I have a linksys 5 port hub. There are ports 1-5 and an uplink. Port 5 and the uplink are shared so if you use one you can't use the other. if you plug something into the uplink then port # 5 is out of use. So it's a 4 port and uplink, or 5 port lan hub. I hope i'm making sense. Check your manual to find out for more info.

It might also depend on what your ISP requires from the machine as an ID. Comcast, which is what I have have, requires a pc name for their network (in addition to the cable modem serial #) that you have to use, but there is no area for macs to input that. So they just use general dhcp one of the reasons why my ISP doesn't like macs, they can't monitor them on their network as well.

The router will offer a firewall and a simpler setup for pcs, but it's my understanding that you should be fine with the hub with just macs.

your other option, if you're daring and/or have an extra machine. Is setup a mac (or pc) as a dhcp router, and that would route all you machines connected on your lan out to your cable modem. This can be a breeze or a major pain, but when it works, it works well. Plus it can be cheaper than a router if you have the mac.

Sgt. Thelip
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950 division
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bigsadhu
Junior Member


Cayman Island
462 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  08:02:28
quote:

Cinemafia-
Is there a router somewhere in your config between the modem and the new hub?
Might be that the modem doesn't know who it should be talking to.
-Eft

quote:
To link more than one Mac to a cable modem, and share one ISP connection, you need a *router*.

Check out DealMac.com for good deals.


Hey Cine,

Not sure exactly what your setup is - sounds pretty similar to mine though - but I think these guys might have hit your problem on the head.

Your cable connection most likely will provide you with a single IP address. You'll need a router (either a hardware jobbie or a spare mac running IPNetRouter/Internet Gateway) sitting between the Cable modem and the hub to provide additional IP addresses via DHCP for your other macs.

Let me know if you need further details of this setup.

Cheers!
CC

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  08:37:09
the setup sounds exactly like mine, i don't have a router as there's only one of me, so i don't need to have more than one mac online at a time. i think it's the cable to the hub uplink from the cable modem if he can't get it to work with ANY of the macs because it won't communicate with the hub to begin with, dunno, networking ain't my bag.

are you intending to have morthan one online at a time, cinemo?

if you don't get ut up i think maybe you need to redefine your physical netwoking setup.

jt ™.
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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  09:02:39
Okay, here's the skinny:

The cable modem is connected to the ethernet hub via one ethernet patch cable. The ethernet hub is connected to three macs (and eventually five total) via three additional ethernet patch cables. There's no router anywhere.

AppleTalk works fine, all three macs can see eachother and share data. However, the cable modem acts as if it is not connected to anything (the blinken lights aint blinken).

RoadRunner says I have five IP's to share amongst five machines, which is my goal, to have five Macs all able to receive TCP/IP at the same time. The 7500 will be the one surfing the most, the LC 475 will be a hotline server, the IIci with PAS-16 will be streaming audio, the Qudra 840av will probably just check email or whatever and the Duo 280c will surf when needs be.

RoadRunner says I don't need a router to do this, but then again RoadRunner will provide zero support beyond that, and can't be relied on for any accurate info!

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
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thelip
Full Member


USA
729 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  11:49:35
ooohhh... then you just need to setup tci/ip control panel to manual and bling bling, you're set. Each computer will have a separate ip for each machine. As far as the router address, the gateway and dns servers, those should have also been given by your isp. This setup WILL work with just a hub, if everything is working correctly, but you will have no firewall protection.

Sgt. Thelip
Heavy Weapons Specialist
950 division
Liberated Macs: 12

Creator and Keeper of
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jruschme
Junior Member


USA
196 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  11:58:59
quote:

Okay, here's the skinny:

The cable modem is connected to the ethernet hub via one ethernet patch cable. The ethernet hub is connected to three macs (and eventually five total) via three additional ethernet patch cables. There's no router anywhere.

AppleTalk works fine, all three macs can see eachother and share data. However, the cable modem acts as if it is not connected to anything (the blinken lights aint blinken).

Sounds like a problem with the physical connection between the hub and the cable modem. IIRC, you are using a regular patch cable to the uplink port on the hub, correct?

I'll assume you verified the cable is good by swapping it with another.

That leaves the obvious thought that something is odd in the uplink port. Most uplink ports work in one of two ways:

1) A switch changes the function of one port between uplink and regular.
2) The uplink port is adjacent to and electrially shared with a regular port (usually the first or last). This is why you see references to 4/5-port hubs, etc. In such a case, you can use the uplink port or the regular port, but not both. (If I had to bet a beer, I'd bet this is what is wrong. :-)

Silly question... have you tried connecting the cable modem to one of the Macs directly to rule out that it is bad?

quote:

RoadRunner says I have five IP's to share amongst five machines, which is my goal, to have five Macs all able to receive TCP/IP at the same time. The 7500 will be the one surfing the most, the LC 475 will be a hotline server, the IIci with PAS-16 will be streaming audio, the Qudra 840av will probably just check email or whatever and the Duo 280c will surf when needs be.

RoadRunner says I don't need a router to do this, but then again RoadRunner will provide zero support beyond that, and can't be relied on for any accurate info!

Wow! They will let you have 5 IPs. I'm afraid to ask how much that costs. (And to think, I used to think it was great that @home would let me pay for up to two extras.)

If you've got 5 Macs and 5 IPs, then you shouldn't need a router.

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cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  12:21:13
quote:
If you've got 5 Macs and 5 IPs, then you shouldn't need a router.

Exactly, I shouldn't need a router, unless I want a firewall, which at the moment I don't want anyway. I'm almost positive that the problem is that I need a crossover cable going from the cable modem to the hub. The patch cables all definitely work, as I have swapped them hither and yon, and the cable modem works when directly connected to any of the machines via a patch cable.

When connected to the hub, it literally shuts down. See, there's three lights on teh front of the cable modem, one shows power, one shows TCP/IP is active, and one shows actual data transfer. When I connect the modem to a machine, either both the power and the TCP/IP lights go a blinken or all three do. When I connect it to the hub, the only light on is power.

So, I'm pretty sure I just need a crossover cable going from modem to hub, that way the modem will see that it is connected to a viable device.

quote:
Wow! They will let you have 5 IPs. I'm afraid to ask how much that costs.

It's actually very competitive! I get 1.5Mbps with 5 IP's, plus unlimited dial-up access all for US$45!

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
I Have No Legs!

Edited by - cinemafia on 13 Jun 2002 12:21:39Go to Top of Page
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  12:34:00
quote:

I'm pretty sure I just need a crossover cable going from modem to hub, that way the modem will see that it is connected to a viable device.

i thought you NEEDED a crossover cable? if you don't have one, make sure your hub doesn't have the uplink enable switch, i think that might be a problem too if it's not configured properly.

if you DON'T have a crossover, the switch might alleviate the need for one, dunno, might screw it up if you DO nave one too.

sounds like the next troubleshooting step is on target, 'mo.

jt ™.
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AnubisTTP
Junior Member


USA
308 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  12:54:26
Have you tried plugging the cable modem into a normal port with a normal cable yet? A port that had a Mac working on it, so you know the port is good?

AnubisTTP, Tank Commander, Bolo Division
68k Macintosh Liberation Army
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thelip
Full Member


USA
729 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  12:55:22
quote:

It's actually very competitive! I get 1.5Mbps with 5 IP's, plus unlimited dial-up access all for US$45!

WHOA!! That's a really good, deal, i wish there were other choices were i'm at... *sniff*

Sgt. Thelip
Heavy Weapons Specialist
950 division
Liberated Macs: 12

Creator and Keeper of
THE NEWTON STYLUS ALLIANCEGo to Top of Page
cinemafia
Guerrilla Recon Leader


USA
2965 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  14:13:30
quote:
i thought you NEEDED a crossover cable?

Um...yeah! Didn't I already say that?

quote:
if you don't have one, make sure your hub doesn't have the uplink enable switch, i think that might be a problem too if it's not configured properly.

Hey, good idea! I'll try that tonight and see what happens.

quote:
Have you tried plugging the cable modem into a normal port with a normal cable yet? A port that had a Mac working on it, so you know the port is good?

Yes and yes. Still nada.

666th poster and 666th thread-creator
Mod of the Mac II series Forums
Total 68K Macs liberated: 7
I Have No Legs!Go to Top of Page
Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  15:44:05
quote:

quote:
i thought you NEEDED a crossover cable?

Um...yeah! Didn't I already say that?


you did, but you also said you tested the modem with several macs with a crossover cable! <rolleyes>

jt ™.
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball
C.O. AC-130H SpecOps 68kMLAAFGo to Top of Page
QuadraJets
Junior Member


USA
344 Posts		 Posted - 13 Jun 2002 :  20:16:56
Make your own crossover!

I don't buy those stupid pre-made wires any more! I can get 100ft of cat5 wire at Lowes for $9.00 ($.09/ft), and I have the crimping tool and a bunch of rj45 connectors. The tool costs $18 at Lowes, and 50 connectors cost around $10. Well worth it when those pre-fab patch cables cost so much-$6 to $50, depending on length.

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