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 Of overclocking and chips that hide in shadows
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candyPunk
Full Member


USA
856 Posts		 Posted - 21 Nov 2001 :  20:17:44
So I was curled up in my cave with the most recent MA, and they had a blurb on overclocking macs. I'm not about to go anywhere near my iMac with a soldering iron or resistors of any kind, but you can bet I'd mess around if I had a desktop G3. This got me thinking: can we do anything to squeeze any extra juice out of our 040's? Thinking even more, I remembered how someone mentioned the 68060, some crazy ass processor that was used in Amigas. Do we know if the 060 uses the same pins as the 040, and if so, can we just pop one in? They can be found http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1299523182
According to this listing, you can overclock the 68060, so what about the 040? Or am I a complete moron for asking? It wouldn't be a huge surprise to me.

PS- I posted this here because there is no general forum, and I'd be doing it to my quadra so...

{ candyPunk }
{ 68k MLA }
{ Macs liberated: 6 }
{ My baby: Q660av }

Edited by - candyPunk on 21 Nov 2001 20:18:35

Edited by - candyPunk on 21 Nov 2001 20:19:26
candyPunk
Full Member


USA
856 Posts		 Posted - 21 Nov 2001 :  20:25:34
Whoa! Maybe I've answered my own question! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1299397780
See what this guy has to say about 040's and 060's down by the pics at the bottom

Is anyone else thrilled at this possiblity??

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candyPunk
Full Member


USA
856 Posts		 Posted - 22 Nov 2001 :  13:11:46
I've been looking into this quite a bit. Someone please tell me if I'm wasting my time. But it looks to me like this could work, if we're willing to pay a bunch for the chip. Some guy has em for $200. I haven't called any of the dealers listed here by motorola, by I'm going to. I still don't get why I'm the only one excited by this. I'm probably in the wrong forum.

www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68060&nodeId=01M934310184622" target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68060&nodeId=01M934310184622

{ candyPunk }
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Captain Z
Mobile Ops Commander


USA
637 Posts		 Posted - 22 Nov 2001 :  13:22:00
There was something I was reading recently... I don't remember where, but I do remember what it was.

The 68000 is compatable with the 68010 for upgrades, the 68020 and 68030 are not pinned out the same with 68040, and the 68060 processor is not compatable with Macintoshes to upgrade from a 68040. The reason why is that the Mac ROM is incompatable with the 68060.

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Captain Z - Sniper
68K Macintosh Liberation Army
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candyPunk
Full Member


USA
856 Posts		 Posted - 22 Nov 2001 :  13:23:24
Are you sure? The pins are the same for the 040 and 060 so if there was nothing like what you just mentioned to stop us, we could easily take out an 040 and pop in on 060. I was curious on how easy it would be, and I just took the 040 out of a Q610, and put it back in. All is well. Can you find that article? I was starting to get my hopes up.

{ candyPunk }
{ 68k MLA }
{ Macs liberated: 6 }
{ My baby: Q660av }

Edited by - candyPunk on 22 Nov 2001 13:26:05Go to Top of Page
~Coxy
Leader, Tactical Ops Unit


Australia
2822 Posts		 Posted - 22 Nov 2001 :  20:05:21
If you get a 68060 for cheap, try it out! Anyone know an Amiga addict with a 68060 they can go without for an hour?

~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit
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Captain Z
Mobile Ops Commander


USA
637 Posts		 Posted - 22 Nov 2001 :  22:44:12
quote:

Can you find that article?

Yes I can.

http://macfaq.org/hardware/logicboard.shtml

Section 2.5.10 - What sort of processor upgrades can I do to my Mac without an upgrade card?

You can get a 68010 for your 68000-based Mac; the '010 is pin-compatible with the 68000 and should drop right in. You CANNOT put a 68060 into a 68040-based Macintosh; the '060 is not entirely compatible with the Mac ROMs or the '040 instruction set and would require a major rewrite of a good deal of software in order to work properly. The '020 and '030 are NOT pin-compatible.

The 68882 FPU is pin-compatible with the 68881 and should be used instead where possible. Socketed 68882s are most often found on dead SE/30 and IIfx motherboards and on Daystar Digital PowerCache cards. The 68LC040, which shipped in most Performa and LC Macs with an '040 CPU, can be replaced with a full '040 without the LC designation, thus adding an FPU to the previously FPU-less Mac. A good source of these is a dead Quadra or Centris motherboard.

For more information about 68K pinouts, see the pinouts page of this FAQ

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Captain Z - Sniper
68K Macintosh Liberation Army
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candyPunk
Full Member


USA
856 Posts		 Posted - 23 Nov 2001 :  12:48:10
**Retreats to his cave in shame for wasting everyone's time**

{ candyPunk }
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Captain Z
Mobile Ops Commander


USA
637 Posts		 Posted - 23 Nov 2001 :  13:10:34
You weren't wasting your time... as I recall, I thought about trying the 68060 replacement myself a little while back...

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Captain Z - Sniper
68K Macintosh Liberation Army
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Flash
Full Member


Australia
637 Posts		 Posted - 26 Nov 2001 :  06:51:26
It never hurts to ask You could have spent the $$ first, asked questions later and THAT would have hurt! If you're handy with a soldering iron.... http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schrier/mhz.html

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candyPunk
Full Member


USA
856 Posts		 Posted - 28 Nov 2001 :  18:01:34
So, which sources do we trust? This pretty much contradicts that other article

http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/systems/mac/info-mac/info/_Hardware/mc-68060.txt

{ candyPunk }
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dvpierce
Starting Member



2 Posts		 Posted - 29 Nov 2001 :  08:57:40
I should point out that the above text document only implies that the chips are instruction-set compatible, like a 286 and 386, or a PPC 601 and G3.

Thus, the chips aren't entirely compatible. They're just 'user compatible.'

Does anybody know if Motorola kept selling faster 68040s? I know the army is using them in prototype smart bombs...

-dvpierce

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Flash
Full Member


Australia
637 Posts		 Posted - 01 Dec 2001 :  00:06:24
Motorola 68k chips are evreywhere! Seen a concert of any desription? A lot of lighting consoles have 68000's in them. A LCD touch panel that I have used in a few boardroom installations (to control CD, VHS, tape players as well as switching the projector on/off...etc) has a Motorola 68something in it too. On ya Motorola!

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Captain Z
Mobile Ops Commander


USA
637 Posts		 Posted - 01 Dec 2001 :  13:14:51
From what the second article says, the pinouts are compatable, but the first article states the Macintosh ROM is incompatable with the '060

According to Motorola, the 68040 has not gotten faster, and it is discontinued. The 68040 ran from 25 to 40MHz, and was replaced by the 68060, which ran from 50 to 75MHz. The 68060 is also retired in favor of the 68K/Coldfire Microprocessors (with speeds in excess of 200MHz), which are probably the ones used in the military today.

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Captain Z - Sniper
68K Macintosh Liberation Army
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skamen
Drunken Sailor


USA
48 Posts		 Posted - 02 Dec 2001 :  09:24:22
Do the Motorola Dragon Ball CPUs in Palms have a similar architecture to Motorola's 68k chips? I'm just curious.

-Scott

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skamen- Lieutenant Commander
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markymark
Junior Member



223 Posts		 Posted - 28 Jan 2002 :  04:50:47

An Amiga 68060 can run macos up to 8.1 using shapeshifter from the author of BasiliskII mac emu.

This is the fastest way to run 68k software on a non ppc machine.

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markymark
Junior Member



223 Posts		 Posted - 28 Jan 2002 :  05:43:08

The 68060 amiga model is a A4000T (tower) with a 68060 cpu running at 50Mhz.

http://www.amiga.com/products/A4000T.shtml

Shapeshifter is supposed to run macos on it pretty fast.

Shapeshifter works in the same sort of way as maconlinux does.

More like a translator than an emulator because it doesn't have to emulate the cpu instructions.

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Flash
Full Member


Australia
637 Posts		 Posted - 04 Feb 2002 :  07:26:40
Well in terms of overclocking, you really can't go past a 1GHz Mac Plus. Power to burn! (thank god for liquid nitrogen )

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schrier/plus.html

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Trash80toG-4
NIGHT STALKER


USA
2899 Posts		 Posted - 04 Feb 2002 :  09:37:24
quote:

Well in terms of overclocking, you really can't go past a 1GHz Mac Plus. Power to burn! (thank god for liquid nitrogen )

Whoosh! CO2 cooling might be better (Keep fire extinguisher handy)!

I had always figured there must be PCI chipsets out there for the 680X0 Unix boxes from the late quadra era. Spent a little time scouring the web yesterday and I found some hints which led to some very interesting information.

"68360 Frequently Asked Questions... hook the QUICC to a PCI bus? Answer: Newbridge Semiconductor makes a part called the "Spanner" which is a 68K/PCI bus bridge. They even have an appnote on how ... mail.symuli.com/68360-FAQ.html"

"mail.symuli.com/PQuicc/helpline.txt
... 360 to a PCI bus? We suggest contacting Tundra (formerly Newbridge Microsystems). They have a chip called Spanner and one called Q-Span."

"the Spanner/Q-Span chips from Newbridge Components (they may now be called Tundra??) which are designed specifically for the Motorola MC68k family."

http://www.tundra.com/page.cfm?TREE_ID=101030
http://www.opac.ch/Smaky/sm400.html

Imagine pulling an 040 out of its socket, plunking it into a daughtercard socket and the d-card into the socket on the mobo. On the daughtercard is this 040-PCI bridge and the PCI-USB/FireWire bridge/chipsets from a generic PCI adapter and a 10/100/1000Bt-PCI bridge chipset from one of same and ribbon cabling to the backplane of a quadra box with three new connectors on the back! Everything just looks like really fast appletalk or regular system I/O coming from a pds or mobo I/O chipset to OS 7.x.

perchance to dream.....
jt

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