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What if: no jobs take 2 or imac?

Author	Topic
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 29 Mar 2002 : 22:21:55 does anybody remember the pc card mac emulator that needed mac roms so that it could be a hardware mac in a pc? i still think something like that would be a great way for apple to retake some of the ground they've lost in K-12. wanting to sell every mac box is killing market share. i sometimes wonder if we might not be better off if jobs hadn't come back and apple had just cut its losses, killed the hardware divisions, and let the clones loose while concentrating on core hardware architectural development, OS and software. i think we'd have to be a lot better off than 3% market penetration (if they had survived at all, granted!) what do you think, could apple have made it as a core technology incubator and mainline software/OS company (like an alternative wintel under one roof?) jt ™
danamania Official 68k Muse Australia 1193 Posts	Posted - 29 Mar 2002 : 23:02:54 quote: does anybody remember the pc card mac emulator that needed mac roms so that it could be a hardware mac in a pc? i still think something like that would be a great way for apple to retake some of the ground they've lost in K-12. wanting to sell every mac box is killing market share. i sometimes wonder if we might not be better off if jobs hadn't come back and apple had just cut its losses, killed the hardware divisions, and let the clones loose while concentrating on core hardware architectural development, OS and software. i think we'd have to be a lot better off than 3% market penetration (if they had survived at all, granted!) what do you think, could apple have made it as a core technology incubator and mainline software/OS company (like an alternative wintel under one roof?) My immediate thoughts are - it could have been a bad bad thing. Apple's big success to me seems to be getting a good balance of existing hardware & packaging it innovatively, knowing the entire system and writing decent OS's/software to use them - moreso than pure hardware innovation anyhows. Of course, it may have worked in ways I'd never imagine, and I'm really hopeless at guessing that kinda stuff :D. dana
~Coxy Leader, Tactical Ops Unit Australia 2822 Posts	Posted - 30 Mar 2002 : 20:19:50 Well, Apple as a Mac OS developer for clones sounds better than Mac OS on Intel, which never would have worked... But I'm not sure how it would go, no one can tell a 'what if' like that!!! ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit 68k Macintosh Liberation Army 00014 Macs liberated.
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 30 Mar 2002 : 20:28:44 quote: Well, Apple as a Mac OS developer for clones sounds better than Mac OS on Intel, which never would have worked... But I'm not sure how it would go, no one can tell a 'what if' like that!!! no kiddin'! but all this second coming crap makes me wanna hurl sometimes. i guess he did save the company, but it might have been saved a lot more successfully another way. but i really don't do financials any better than languages! so it's not even academic! jt ™
Da Penguin Senior Member USA 1094 Posts	Posted - 30 Mar 2002 : 21:41:55 Simple answer: BUGS If you license out everything like that the whole world gets screwed and takes it in a different way. The only reason windoze has bugs (other than being a horrible OS that the devil himself is trying to steal to make us use in h*ll) is that it doesnt have standard....anything. I feel that if apple had gone crazy like that and done only the OS or only th hardware, same thing would occur. Just a thought. ~The Penguin \|Captain, Intelligence Operations\| There is only one path and that is the path that you take, but you can take more than one path. 68k.torpedobird.com <-- Hotline Server
~Coxy Leader, Tactical Ops Unit Australia 2822 Posts	Posted - 30 Mar 2002 : 22:16:17 Yeah, I forgot about that whole Windows world of choices: a double edged sword... (is that the right analogy? ) ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit 68k Macintosh Liberation Army 00014 Macs liberated.
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 30 Mar 2002 : 22:46:27 quote: Yeah, I forgot about that whole Windows world of choices: a double edged sword... (is that the right analogy? ) not really accurate, the toolbox routines in ROM were a FAR more complex task to re-create in a clean room than IBM's BIOS, only LASER managed to re-create the // series ROMS out of all the clone makers in that era. apple exherted so much control over the clonemakers that they stifled development, which is not necessarily a bad thing in terms of the bugginess issue. the incredible uniformity of each model in tha lineup is what makes the dream of a 90/90/linux/performa style install CD possible at all. but the very messiness of the darwinian environment of the wintel etc. world is probably one of its greatest STRENGTHS as well as weaknesses! jt ™
~Coxy Leader, Tactical Ops Unit Australia 2822 Posts	Posted - 31 Mar 2002 : 19:50:04 What I meant was: 1) There's a lot more choice in the 'PC' world, mainly because they aren't as finicky as to what goes in. 2) This, however, leads to great problems into getting the whole thing to work smoothly together, particularly (so I've heard) in generic PC boxes. ~Coxy - Leader, Tactical Operations Unit 68k Macintosh Liberation Army 00014 Macs liberated.
Kady Mae Junior Member USA 261 Posts	Posted - 31 Mar 2002 : 20:51:39 Quoth ~coxy quote: What I meant was: 1) There's a lot more choice in the 'PC' world, mainly because they aren't as finicky as to what goes in. 2) This, however, leads to great problems into getting the whole thing to work smoothly together, particularly (so I've heard) in generic PC boxes. This has mostly been a problem in the past, but hardware synch in a PC is better than ever. The only problems I've had in the past 18 months all stemmed from a bad motherboard and as soon as I swapped that out, things went smoothly. For years, Apple has sold itself on ease of use and tight OS/Hardware integration. W98 and 2000 got rid of a lot of those problems, and the web makes it a lot easier to research to see if there are any conflicts. Yes, there are still occasional conflicts, but these are fairly rare. I've never had any problems with hardware that has the Windows compatability seal. Apple needs to reinvent itself, and soon. I think the digital hub push is a good idea, but the iMac is the wrong shape, and quicksilver is too expensive. In the mean time, I can take my PC tower downstairs, give it a paint job to match the decor, and replace the DVD player, CD player, VCR and sterio reciever. Can't do that with the iMac, and as there is no All In Wonder for the Mac, I can't do it with the Quicksilver, either. Apple needs to bring back a modified, upgradable cube as a digital hub. They need to market the hell out of it -- using an ad that does not focus on how cute it is, but instead shows that it's a "floor polish and a dessert topping." 68K's liberated: 0 68Ks adopted to loving homes: 2 PowerMacs adopted: 1
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 31 Mar 2002 : 21:12:17 quote: Apple needs to reinvent itself, and soon. I think the digital hub push is a good idea, but the iMac is the wrong shape, and quicksilver is too expensive. In the mean time, I can take my PC tower downstairs, give it a paint job to match the decor, and replace the DVD player, CD player, VCR and sterio reciever. Can't do that with the iMac, and as there is no All In Wonder for the Mac, I can't do it with the Quicksilver, either. Apple needs to bring back a modified, upgradable cube as a digital hub. They need to market the hell out of it -- the generic clones were the compatible ones, it was always the proprietary systems that had trouble. before ATX, if it had ports on the mobo, you had to be a greenhorn to buy it. absolute garage level manufactured, ISA standardized, was the ONLY way to go! All in wonder is something i really wish would migrate to the mac. the home entertainment systems from maximumpc are much more comprehensive than their macaddict counterparts. i can't stand the immature little twits from both camps that do nothing but rag on the other camp and blindly praise their platform of choice. i have always been of the opinion that they are only demonstrating their ignorance about computing in general. jt ™
maclover5 LC Doctor/Hot Rodder Australia 5830 Posts	Posted - 31 Mar 2002 : 22:26:39 quote: the generic clones were the compatible ones, it was always the proprietary systems that had trouble. before ATX, if it had ports on the mobo, you had to be a greenhorn to buy it. absolute garage level manufactured, ISA standardized, was the ONLY way to go! I agree. These days, if the ATA or floppy controller on your PC dies, you need to replace the whole mobo. Back in the 486 days, you'd just swap in a new I/O card and be back up and running in no time at all! -------------------------- Pizzabox LCs RULE!!!!!!! Warrior maclover5 68k Macintosh Liberation Army Number of 68ks Liberated: 6!!! QFW68KPB Project SUCCESS!!!!!
Trash80toG-4 NIGHT STALKER USA 2899 Posts	Posted - 31 Mar 2002 : 22:31:50 quote: [quote]I agree. These days, if the ATA or floppy controller on your PC dies, you need to replace the whole mobo. Back in the 486 days, you'd just swap in a new I/O card and be back up and running in no time at all! or put in a second $15 card for 2S1P1G! and plunk in a pentium board when the time came! proprietary cases stayed original mobo-non-standard non-upgradable, kinda like macs! jt ™
Wonkothesane Full Member USA 506 Posts	Posted - 01 Apr 2002 : 11:58:31 I think that Apple should try to lure Linux/BSD hackers to the Mac. The MacOS needs developers, and Apple is alienating them with expensive propriety hardware. Apple should not license the MacOS to clones, though; instead, it should allow makers of PPC motherboards to use mac ROMs, enabling people to build their own macs. That way, Unix geeks could buil their own cheap Mac OS X boxes, and regular consumers, who generally do not buid their own mahines, would buy Apple hardware. Wonko The Sane Engineer-in-training 3 Macs Liberated "You can't possibly be a scientist if you mind people thinking that you're a fool."- Wonko The Sane

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