Won't read sit files from PC

[LarBob]

I have a system running 7.5.5 and it won't read sit files that I transfer from my PC using HFVExplorer. They just show up with a blank file icon and stuffit won't extract them. There is probably some really obvious x for this, but I've searched and haven't been able to find it.

Thanks

 

[IPalindromeI]

Most likely, they lost their type info from being on a PC, as well as resource forks. You should wrap your things in BinHex or MacBinary as to preserve classic Mac OS information.

 

[LarBob]

Most likely, they lost their type info from being on a PC, as well as resource forks. You should wrap your things in BinHex or MacBinary as to preserve classic Mac OS information.

It also happens if I download the files straight from the Mac using Netscape 3 from sites like Macintosh Garden as well. Is there a way I can fix that? I have StuffIt 4.0.1 installed on the Mac btw.

 

[tanaquil]

It's possible that the files you are downloading from MG have been stuffed with a version of Stuffit higher than 4.5; versions of Stuffit that run under System 7 won't open these. This often happens when someone is running OS 9 and doesn't realize that their file stuffed with a later version of Stuffit is going to be a hassle (or they do realize it, but they don't have the hardware to run a lower version).

If this is the problem, one way is to unstuff the files on an OS 9 machine before transferring them to your system 7 machine - this assumes you have access to both.

Another clumsy but effective workaround is to set up an installation of minivmac on your modern mac, with System 7 and a compatible version of Stuffit (3 or 4) installed. Unzip the sit file on the modern mac (Unarchiver works well), turn the folder the new file is in into an HFS disk using HFS Disk Maker, drop the HFS disk in minivmac, restuff the file with the compatible Stuffit version, use ExportFl to get the new sit back into your modern mac OS, and THEN move the new sit to your system 7 hardware. As ridiculously convoluted as this sounds, I find it much faster than trying to move files between three physical machines.

All that said, the blank icon is suspicious. That sounds like a file with its resource fork removed or zapped, as iPalindromel said. I don't know why downloading files directly from MG into System 7 would be giving you zapped files, but if every single file you get from MG is bad, it's unlikely to be the Stuffit 5.x problem.

Good luck!

 

[LarBob]

The one's I'm getting from there seem to be zapped for some reason. The sit files on max1zzz's ftp server seem to be fine though if I get them through Fetch.

(offtopic: is there some kind of ssh client for sys7?)

 

[tanaquil]

Weird. I wonder if it has something to do with how Netscape handles downloads.

 

[IPalindromeI]

MacSSH is basically the only SSHv2 game in town. Keep in mind you will likely need to turn compression off and I think newer versions of OpenSSH may have dropped older key exchange and cipher mechanisms.

 

[LarBob]

MacSSH is basically the only SSHv2 game in town. Keep in mind you will likely need to turn compression off and I think newer versions of OpenSSH may have dropped older key exchange and cipher mechanisms.

Thanks, by the way I've updated to StuffIt 5.5 and it seems to have resolved some of the problems. I'll try to keep you guys updated but there's a storm right now so I decided to shut off the Mac just in case. By the way, I notice you use a BB Q5 for your daily driver... I use a Classic for mine!

 

[Elfen]

Any time you use a PC to transfer old Mac Files, there is an 80% chance that you will loose the 8-byte File Type & Creator ID Bytes from the file. These are the first 8 bytes of the file. You will still have the resource forks and data forks within the file but without those 8-bytes, you can not access the file as it will show up as a blank text file...

There is a fix, but it means that you need to learn what the File Type and Creator ID Bytes are for a given file.

Utility Dog (aka UD) is a program that lets you edit files and disk sector information. This includes editing the File Type and Creator ID Bytes. Once you know what that information should be, access the file through UD, and edit the information; there is a menu entry just for that. UD also lets you Batch Files to multiple changes at once. This saved my fluffy tail a few years ago when I tried to access from 375 freehand files which the File Type & Creator IDs were erased by the PC! With the Batch Files Option I was able to restore the Freehand file information and got the files back! You need you know what this information is for ZIP and SIT Files to restore them.

 

[LarBob]

My downloading problem seems to be fixed by updating StuffIt to 5.5. For some reason I only had 4.0.1 on it before.

 

[tanaquil]

Glad to hear StuffIt 5.5 did the trick. I didn't realize it could run under 7.5, my System 7 machines all have 7.1.

RE damaged forks, restoring the correct type/creator ID fixes stage one corruption. There is another level of loss beyond which the resource data is irretrievably lost - I'm not sure precisely which stage of unsafe file transmission causes that. Documents are easier to rescue with an ID fix than applications, maybe that's the crucial distinction.

I'll have to check out Utility Dog. You can never have enough file utilities.

 

[LarBob]

Yeah. The CD drive in the Mac is broken though. I wanted to put 7.6 on it but I guess that has to wait until I can get a working drive. I wish there was a way to get the "Welcome to Macintosh" boot screen instead of the Mac OS boot screen in 7.5+.

 

[Elfen]

LarBob- what machine is this? The OS Boot Screen was put into System 7.5; if you want the "Welcome to Macintosh" Screen, you need to either much around with the resource fork (PICT -> to the actual Boot Screens, there are about 4 to 8 of them) and redraw it from there or you can have a "StartUpScreen(.pict)" file in the system folder (sometimes it works, sometimes it don't - you need to play around with it). With the StartUpscreen file, you may or may not need the extension, but it has to be in 8bit color (for a color screen), it will not work with a 24bit color image.

Tanaquil - I have yet to experience the loss of a resource fork on PC to Mac Transfers. But I think I can see why it happens; if you see the blank icon, and if you double click it, then what app that would open up a blank icon file would strip the resource fork out of it. It is best to leave it alone and use a program like Utility Dog to fix the File Type/Creator ID tags first before doing anything else.

If you have a Mac with preloaded apps on it - Use UD to look at their File Type/Creator IDs and write them down so you have list of them somewhere. Unfortunately for me I committed mine to memory and... well... I got Swiss Cheese for a brain.  Like you stated, this works for both apps and data files, but you need to know what those tags are.

 

[rsolberg]

for a Stuffit archive, the Creator should be 'SIT!' and the Type 'SIT!' or 'SITD' (without the quotation marks) I refer to http://www.macdisk.com//macsigen.phpwhen I can't remember. I have a copy printed just in case.

 

[LarBob]

LarBob- what machine is this? The OS Boot Screen was put into System 7.5; if you want the "Welcome to Macintosh" Screen, you need to either much around with the resource fork (PICT -> to the actual Boot Screens, there are about 4 to 8 of them) and redraw it from there or you can have a "StartUpScreen(.pict)" file in the system folder (sometimes it works, sometimes it don't - you need to play around with it). With the StartUpscreen file, you may or may not need the extension, but it has to be in 8bit color (for a color screen), it will not work with a 24bit color image.

Tanaquil - I have yet to experience the loss of a resource fork on PC to Mac Transfers. But I think I can see why it happens; if you see the blank icon, and if you double click it, then what app that would open up a blank icon file would strip the resource fork out of it. It is best to leave it alone and use a program like Utility Dog to fix the File Type/Creator ID tags first before doing anything else.

If you have a Mac with preloaded apps on it - Use UD to look at their File Type/Creator IDs and write them down so you have list of them somewhere. Unfortunately for me I committed mine to memory and... well... I got Swiss Cheese for a brain.  Like you stated, this works for both apps and data files, but you need to know what those tags are.

The machine is a 6100/60. It has the Welcome to Macintosh when it first starts, but once it starts loading, it goes into the Mac OS screen.

 

[Elfen]

The machine is a 6100/60. It has the Welcome to Macintosh when it first starts, but once it starts loading, it goes into the Mac OS screen.

That is normal for a System 7.5+. You can edit the resource that does that out or make your own start up screen. I never tried deleting the resource out but that might be a possible solution. Back Up/Copy your system file so if this craps out the system, you can bring things back.

 

[LarBob]

That is normal for a System 7.5+. You can edit the resource that does that out or make your own start up screen. I never tried deleting the resource out but that might be a possible solution. Back Up/Copy your system file so if this craps out the system, you can bring things back.

I know that it's normal, I just wanted to know if I could change it to the pre-7.5 way. Thanks.. I might try it.

 

[CelGen]

Never under any circumstance handle mac files on a device that is formatted for FAT. This includes floppy disks and ZIP disks formatted on a PC or any fixed/removable media. NTFS however will better handle mac files but no mac supports NTFS so you are limited to a machine running Windows Server 2003 or Windows 2000 server where you can safely handle the file on a PC and access it from a mac using the bundled Appletalk networking support.

That being said, hqx/bin/sit files do usually seem to survive a fork nuking if you let FAT touch them.

 

[IPalindromeI]

> That being said, hqx/bin/sit files do usually seem to survive a fork nuking if you let FAT touch them.

That's what their intended for - preserving Mac metadata/forks on non-Mac systems. (Windows has the clever trick of ADS to preserve them on NTFS, however.)