Those more rare compact variants

[Rasmus]

Here is a 512K/800 box, which I'm going to assume dates to 1987, based on its similarity to the Plus and 512Ke boxes from 1987:

I bring this up to point out something the 512Ke and the 512K/800 have in common: the disks and the manual were not updated in 1987. Only the outer box and the machine itself (or at least its label and obviously the ROMs). This particular 512K/800 is extremely well documented, by two different owners, once on eBay and once in an old personal site (now gone). Anyhow, as a result, I have good photos of the whole package, including the packing list with the part numbers legible.

One thing this tells us is the 512K/800 was being sold in Europe as early as March 1986 -- that is the date on the update insert for the "Picasso" Macintosh manual that came with it. Unlike the 512Ke, Apple never produced a new manual for the 512K/800, although a rebadged "512K/800" internal disk drive manual (i.e., the same manual that came with the "Macintosh Plus" upgrade kit for older 128K and 512K machines) was included. Another thing that the package shows is the disks were not updated either, like the 512Ke:

The part number of the 512Ke system disk (June 1986) is 690-5091-A. The part number of the "512K/800" system disk in this package is B690-5091. The same parallel exists for the Guided Tour disk.

Anyhow, I think this shows two things: [1] Both the 512Ke and the 512K/800 got new outer packaging boxes in 1987, but [2] the rest of the materials inside the box did not change.

The only question is, did the plastic used for these machines change in 1987? Is there such a thing as a platinum 512Ke and a platinum 512K/800? I think the answer for the 512K/800 has to be yes -- if for no other reason then because of the keyboard and mouse, which changed for the Plus. I guess probably the same is true for the 512Ke. It seems crazy to change the plastic in the Plus and not do so in the 512Ke. You don't have to take new photos -- you can just adjust the color a bit. Indeed, all the evidence points to Apple spending only the bare minimum on the repackaging of the 1987 512Ke and 512K/800 (unlike the 1987 Plus, which got a full overhaul to match all the SE and II materials) -- none of the stuff inside the box was changed.

Also, look more closely at the photo on the 512K/800 box -- look familiar? The screen shot is the same as the one on the cover of the 1986 Macintosh Plus manual, also used on the box (see previous post). [Note: They did the same thing with the 1986 512Ke -- what's on the screen in the photos on the manual and on the box is the same, even though the two photos are taken from different angles.] The photo of the machine is different, but I think that shows somebody with a precursor to Photoshop at work here...

 

[Scott Baret]

The Mac ED variation of the 512Ke was definitely converted to platinum. It has the name screened on the front. I'm not sure what the box for these looked like but I now have actual proof these were made into 1988 based on the date on my European ED.

 

[Rasmus]

Scott -- actually, I think you've found the thing that pushed me over the edge when it came to deciding whether or not to say the 1987 512Ke was platinum (and to not equivocate about it) -- the fact that there were platinum EDs. So that's a pretty strong indicator of a complete shift over to the new plastic at both Fremont and Cork.

 

[Mac128]

My argument is not whether a 1987 Mac 512Ke would be Platinum or not. It's whether the 512Ke was sold with that badging after it became Platinum, or not.

Due to Apple's tight supply chains, the fact that the ED used the Mac Plus bezel would suggest that it switched when the Mac Plus did, that is, once they shut down the original Macintosh Plant, which could have happened well after the beginning of 1987. They weren't going to switch to Platinum before they had to. Now if they were making these in Cork as well in Freemont, they could have easily switched for the 512K/800 and kept the beige in the US, until they closed the plant. likewise with the Mac Plus keyboard.

So my question is, what is the latest documented 512Ke? If it's not past the release of the SE, I would seriously question whether the 512Ke was continued to be manufactured as a badged 512Ke, and instead became a Platinum ED at that point. If anyone has a 512Ke with a release date past April, then we should have our answer as to whether it was ever Platinum or not. Until then, I would suggest the badged 512Ke was discontinued while still a beige machine, and became the ED only, in Platinum, reusing the Plus bezel, updated with the Platinum Plus keyboard, and shipping with a universal/convertable power supply for all markets, possibly all coming out of Cork. Economy of means meant it used everything from the Plus except the logic board and rear bucket. And since the priority in 1987 was to switch the best-selling Plus over to Platinum, the 512Ke would have almost certainly taken a backseat to the changeover, considering it was the lowest priority of all the Apple products, with a new Platinum IIe and IIc, and especially with the SE & Mac IIs impending release as well. My guess it didn't happen until after they were released. The Mac Plus would have become the low-end consumer model on the spot, and the 512Ke would have been relegated solely to education.

 

[Scott Baret]

By badging, are you referring to the rear bucket? My newly-acquired ED does indeed have a "Macintosh 512K" badge on the back. The front is Pluslike.

 

[Mac128]

The model numbers. How it was marketed.

512ke M0001E

ED M0001ED

512K/800 M0001D

Show me a 512Ke with a model number of M0001E in Platinum, and we'll know for sure. Until then we only have one known suspect example from an eBay auction Eric sadly didn't bid on! LOL

 

[SEthirty]

I've got a SE/30 with a 1988 label.

 

[Mac128]

I've got a SE/30 with a 1988 label.

This doesn't really qualify as a rare model ... It's a rare SE/30 in that there likely only a few thousand manufactured prior to its release in January 1989. But definitely not a rare variant. This is similar to the 1983 128K Macs, rare for the model, but otherwise mass produced in huge numbers, and hardly rare as a model.

You should start another thread though and document the differences between its internals and the more common later SE/30s though to see if it underwent any major production changes from it's launch, like the 128K did, or if it was pretty well thought out before it went into production, unlike the 128K.

 

[Scott Baret]

In regards to my ED--the model number is M00001D. Interestingly, this is the number usually used by a 512/800, but it makes sense since this particular ED was manufactured in Ireland (and originally sold/used in Holland). The M00001ED designation appears to only have been used for American-built EDs, which also seem to be nearly impossible to locate.

As for the SE/30--are you referring to the copyright date on the rear label or the date from the serial number code? I'm not 100% sure about the SE/30, as I don't have one to look from, but I know some Macs have a copyright date a year older than when they came out. The SE is a perfect example--many SEs are copyrighted 1986 on the rear bucket label (probably the year the ROM software was copyrighted). Many eBay sellers will state they have an "SE from 1986" because of this, even though their serial number will state otherwise. If you're going by the date on this sticker, be aware it's probably inaccurate. However, as Mac128 pointed out, there is a chance you could have one made in December 1988 so it would be available for the January 1989 introduction--Apple will make a model in advance so it's on the shelves. (I have a Classic dated August 1990--two months before it was available for sale--and have heard reports of July 1990 Classics as well, so I wouldn't be surprised to find pre-1989 SE/30s).

 

[SEthirty]

Yes, you're right : it is on the label.

The serial says :

Manufactured in: CK => Cork, Ireland

Year of production: 1990

Week of production: 31

Production number: 15W => 1356

Modell ID: KAT => Macintosh SE/30

Your Macintosh SE/30 was the 1356th Mac manufactured during the 31th week of 1990 in Cork, Ireland.

So, a middle to late 1990 SE/30.

But I've got the full Soundtools suite.

Is that rare ?

How much is it worth (I've got the Analog Interface, SE/30 PDS Expansion Card and the software on the harddisk) ?

 

[Mac128]

SEthirty - start another thread, doesn't belong here.

 

[Rasmus]

Note that I've changed the wording of my entries on the 1987 512Ke (like Mac128 says, until another 1987 M0001E surfaces we can't really be sure -- this is basically just my prediction of what it will be based on the only example I've ever "seen" -- note that this sort of seemingly-authoritative-statement-actually-based-on-speculation is not something I make a practice of doing -- the evidence for most everything else on the site is conclusive), as follows:

There were two generations of Macintosh 512Ke [M0001E] machines:

Beige machines produced in 1986 have a label on the back with no copyright date. They came with the M0110 standard keyboard and contained first-revision Macintosh Plus ROMs.

Platinum machines have a 1987 copyright date on the label. They came with the M0110A extended keyboard and contained second-revision Macintosh Plus ROMs. These machines existed, but I don't know if they were ever sold retail. They may have only been sold through educational institutions.

Note: I have never seen a M0001E with a 220-240V power supply.

[...]

Sales of the Macintosh 512Ke continued until September 1987. The design of the outer box was changed in early 1987, but evidently the content and design of the owner's guide did not change. I don't know if the 512Ke was sold retail after January 1987 (see above).

[...]

Sales of the Macintosh 512Ke continued until September 1987, but evidently the software bundle did not change after June 1986. I don't know if the 512Ke was sold retail after January 1987 (see above).

 

[Rasmus]

Hi again,

I'm sorry I didn't include this before -- it was buried in the SE folder for some reason. Thank god for Spotlight. Here is the original photo Mac128 is referring to. This is definitely the machine with the 1987 M0001E label on the back. I don't think there is any question that it is platinum, given the location of the Apple logo:

The only thing that really needs explanation is the box. It is either not original to the machine, or they didn't bother to take new photos for the box. I suppose the attitude might have been that the cover art and everything in the owner's guide is off, so why bother to change the image on the box? As I've shown above, the box did change at some point, and most likely it was when the Plus box changed in 1987 (and I'd be willing to bet a very small sum that the extended keyboard will fit in that box -- yet another reason why I should have bought it).

Also, a note on the 512K/800 -- look at the location of the Apple logo on the machine in the 512K/800 box image above -- the truth is I have never seen a 512K/800 like this 1987 512Ke -- both examples I have in my files have the Apple logo in the old style/position (like the box image) and are thus almost certainly beige.

Indeed, this brings me to a point that I think Mac128 knew already, which is that it is probably not possible to have a platinum machine with the Apple logo in the old style/position. It just makes no sense. So I find myself wondering if platinum 512K/800s existed at all. They might have all been badged with "Macintosh ED" in Europe, etc. or had the M0001ED label in Australia, etc.

The easiest way to find answers is probably in old issues of MacWorld or other places where retailer's ads and the like for these machines would have run...

 

[Mac128]

and I'd be willing to bet a very small sum that the extended keyboard will fit in that box

Ah, the smoking gun!

Thanks for posting that picture again. Definitely Platinum. Clearly the evidence is overwhelming. But that one sticking point remains. Is the box indeed original to that Mac? Seems highly likely ... I'm just bothered by the paucity of evidence of more Platinum 512Kes in all the years I've been looking. If only you had only bought it ... ;-)

What kills me is that since the long keyboard was a selling point, and the box was clearly new, why didn't they use the picture from the 512K/800 (as long as they were sticking with beige anyway) which would have been new in the US, certainly? perhaps they didn't want to promote the 512Ke? If they had a picture of the actual Platinum 512Ke, it would have looked for all practical purposes like the Mac Plus sitting on a shelf.

But, since this is the only KNOWN example of one, it makes me wonder if this is indeed the original packaging for the pictured Mac, and if so, was it actually sold in a retail space? Or was it for all practical purposes sold only as the Mac ED in the US, using the old model number and 512Ke box, until they discontinued it altogether, and replaced it in the US with an actual ED to further consolidate resources - if that even happened? For that matter, what kind of box did the ED ship in? Did it say ED, or was it a regular 512Ke, 512K/800 box, perhaps with a sticker? Indeed, if Apple chose not to update the image on the Platinum 512Ke boxes, why would they be any more inclined to update in Europe? And how many 512K/800 boxes have we actually seen? Not many, making a post 1987 box sighting even less likely considering the reduced numbers inevitably sold.

BTW - did you ever get the serial number for that Mac?

 

[Rasmus]

BTW - did you ever get the serial number for that Mac?

No -- I think I tried to contact the buyer (this was before they started using truncated buyer names), but didn't get any response.

Anyhow, I've completed the meat of my rewrite based on this thread. I'll probably edit it somewhat, but the argument will stay the same. Thanks so much for the idea that it may have been education-only -- it's definitely a possibility. I just paid way too much for four copies of MacWorld from 1987 (March, April, July, August) -- probably useless, but we'll see. Here it is:

Platinum 512Ke machines have a 1987 copyright date on the label. They came with the M0110A extended keyboard and contained second-revision Macintosh Plus ROMs. The location and design of the Apple logo on the front of the machine was the same as the Plus. These machines definitely existed, but I don't know if they were ever sold retail. They may have only been sold to educational institutions. At the time, Apple considered System 3.2 Finder 5.3 to be the maximum for machines with 512K of RAM. [it was only later that Apple would start recommending System 4.1 Finder 5.4 as the maximum.] This fact probably explains why no effort was made to update the owner's guide and software bundle in 1987, and it might well also explain why the machines might have only been sold within the education market -- Apple considered them to be obsolete!

QUESTION: Do you or anyone else remember exactly where it is in 1987 that Apple says System 3.2 Finder 5.3 is the maximum for 512K machines? I'm absolutely certain they do, but I can't recall where.

 

[Scott Baret]

There is another confirmed platinum 512Ke belonging to a forum member. It's owned by macdownunder and was discussed in a thread called "Complete Collection of Every Compact Mac" in 2007. There is a link to the picture in that thread, but it appears to be down right now. The photo had four Macs in a row--a beige 512Ke, a platinum 512Ke, a beige Plus, and a platinum Plus.

The page of the thread with the link is here:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=334&start=50

I don't believe he had the box for it, so while it may not answer our box question, it does show two things:

1. The platinum 512Ke from the auction is not an anomaly.

2. These machines were distributed to Australia (unless he had it imported from another country).

I thought of something we may wish to try. Check your local libraries to see if they have any Macintosh-related magazines from 1987. Look at the articles and the ads to see if there is any mention of the 512Ke either being offered only to education (which would explain the lack of Mac EDs in the US) or if there were any offered for sale to general computers that weren't closeouts. In particular, a summer 1987 issue would have a platinum 512Ke on sale somewhere in the ad section. If it's not there, it wasn't a general public offering.

 

[Mac128]

Scott, I believe when the link comes up again, you will find that those are both 240V EDs.

Even if they were 512Kes, they would necessarily have to be imports, as it wouldn't make sense for Apple to sell 120V products in a country that supplies double the voltage over standard outlets. And Apple does not use the same model number for the identical product with different voltage requirements.

 

[Peter.Howard]

Hello, you can view these pictures through the archive website:

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20080719182400/http://macdownunder.no-ip.info/Platinum512ke/

 

[Rasmus]

Check your local libraries to see if they have any Macintosh-related magazines from 1987.

Yale seems to have all of MacWorld from the start and an incomplete set of MacUser from 1987, so I'll go in and see what is actually in the stacks. All of the town libraries around here don't keep stuff like this for more than three years or so -- I guess the storage requirements are too great.

 

[Concorde1993]

All of the town libraries around here don't keep stuff like this for more than three years or so -- I guess the storage requirements are too great.

Microfilm?

Btw, I am surprised that a university library would keep original copies of MacWorld/MacUser magazines from the 80s, and 90s. They must all be in terrible condition by now.