The $60 Intel iMac

[Cory5412]

My apologies for the poor structure of the previous post.

The idea that "this kind of conquest will become normal" is separate from my quote of _K.

My commentary about the new normal basically is about the co-convening of the "Low End Mac" crowd which I would would be a lot more enthusiastic about this particular post than the "68k Mac collecting" crowd.

This is one of those things where my own vision for the site doesn't match up with how people actually use it. I'm really into the idea of it becoming an old-unsupported Intel Mac support site. I did my time on Core2Duo based Macs. I loved it, and I don't regret it at all, but it's not a 68k Mac.

My question for Unknown_K is whether you also have iMac G5s and if there's a specific feeling of "more fun" from iMac G5s than from the Intel-based iMac you said you have.

That is something that would strike me as being weird.

 

[LazarusNine]

It certainly seems to me that the reasons for buying a C2D iMac are not entirely dissimilar to those that drive some part of the 68k collecting.

One of the (many) motivating factors behind my collecting of 68k machines and, to a lesser extent, PPC Macs, is that the computers were prohibitively expensive upon their release and represented something of an aspirational purchase rather than something I could ever actually afford. Maybe something similar is going on with these now decade-old Intel Macs. Just the THOUGHT of owning something for as little as $60 that was once fairly recently in the thousands sparks a general fascination with the nature of commodities in modern societies.

What perhaps separates out the 68k collecting from these sorts of Intel purchases, at least for me, is that I get a sense of 'preservation' with the older machines, whereas the Intel Macs don't seem to hold the same kind of cultural and historical value in my eyes. BUT, that's a subjective position. Ask a current 10 year-old what s/he'll be nostalgic about in 20 years, and it may very well be that MacBook Pro with Touchbar or the clunky old iPhone 7.

 

[Unknown_K]

For me I collect computers that I find interesting, and by interesting I mean different then what I usually use or for specific tasks I find interesting (analog video capture for one). The G5 and before comment just means PPC is different then what I have been using day to day since 1983 when I got my first computer.

When you collect you start off at a sweet spot that you want to explore (68k for me). Once you get every machine you liked and some you don't you either stop collecting or you go older (if possible) or newer. I find anything older then a SE useless so I never bothered with the 128K Mac, or any of the non ADB models (even when they were cheap to free). Granted if one fell into my lap I would play around with it (the mind of an engineer that likes to know how things work or evolved) till I got bored and got rid of it. I got into PPC since it was the logical way to go and I do like Mac OS pre OSX. Normally I would have stopped with the G4 line but I liked the case design for the G5 towers, and you do kind of need an OSX machine for keeping the older machines running (archiving, downloads, etc.).

The G5 iMacs are ok to mess with because the screen is built in and the CPU is useful enough for somewhat modern tasks but I just like the G5 towers more (and I have some AJA Kona's installed for fun). My first 2 G5 iMacs fell into my lap from a local guy who knows I like old computers, and they were both dead from bad caps. I tend to like to fix things just to see if I can.

Newer Macs are pretty much just a PC in a more stylized case, you could just hack a PC to run OSX if you wanted to (and people used to do this with Thinkpads and cheap towers to save money). I just don't care about them, which is why my Intel iMac collects dust even though its faster then any of my G5 or G4's.

My main machines have been x86/x64 ever since I sold my C64 to buy a 286 PC in college. I guess if I was a Mac user and not a PC user I would be more interested in Intel Macs just because of speed and a machine to run the most useful version of OSX. I think once you get to a certain age you just don't care about bleeding edge anymore. Gaming drove much of my PC budget for a long time but that kind of fizzled out a decade ago. While I still collect PC systems for gaming my main machines are nothing special and I don't use anything newer then Windows 7 64bit (mostly because I need support for more then 4GB RAM). I still play Age of Empires 2 on the weekends online and you don't need much to do that. Newer games just don't do much for me.

 

[EvieSigma]

The only C2D Mac I want is a unibody white MacBook, and if Apple had kept making them into the Core i age I wouldn't want a C2D one.

I do have a C2D ThinkPad as a daily driver but a recent scare involving the machine not booting is pushing me to get something newer.

 

[Cory5412]

With regards to ppc/intel Macs specifically, it seems so weird because the transition era Intel Macs literally look and (mostly) run identically to their PPC counterparts. You have to specifically know a few tell signs or you just have to go look at the specs to know for sure whether one's a PPC or an x86.

The G5 towers I can get a little more because you can detect a little more of that sense that Apple would have loved to be compared to systems like the U80/U45 or Octane2/Tezro or the C8000 instead of to the Precision 470/680.

This is perhaps because I've been using Macs for so long (literally starting with warehouse and ex-business buys like the 7300 and 840, the latter of which happened when it was around ten years old, for $40.

Although, for the specific satisfaction of buying something that cost a lot for almost nothing, Silicon Graphics seemed more gratifying. My Octane config would've cost $40,000 or so in 1998 and I got it for like $100 shipped in 2005.

I think it will end up being important, or at least "important" to preserve these machines, I'm sure someone's already doing it but the more the merrier.

The only C2D Mac I want is a unibody white MacBook, and if Apple had kept making them into the Core i age I wouldn't want a C2D one.

I do have a C2D ThinkPad as a daily driver but a recent scare involving the machine not booting is pushing me to get something newer.

The unibody white MacBook is a super interesting one because it sold alongside westmere/arrandale Macs, and it almost lasted into the Sandy Bridge era. Penryn was a pretty good contender and in a lot of ways, that model is the MD101LL/A of its time. The nVidia chipset made it able to run a surprising amount of RAM and if you got one today that was built in 2010 or 2011 and was treated well, it would probably last a few more years running the latest version of OS X before wearing out.

I think the idea at the time was to build something obviously cost-reduced in the lead up in 2011-2012 to re-positioning the MacBook Air as the affordable basic Mac.

Also, can I take this to mean your R is booting again? Any idea as to what specifically was happening with it?

 

[Cory5412]

One hilarious thought I had while I was elsewhere on the site is that it's often easier to build up a collection of computers that are about ten years old, than ones that are fifteen to twenty or more years old. Both in terms of getting machines cheap before the majority of them have been scrapped for reals this time, etc.

For me the question would then be what do you do with it between now and when it really is "retro" -- I can't even imagine keeping a straight face while talking about an iMac from 2007 as "retro" or "vintage."

"Productivity" on something like that will really depend on how much you put into it and who is using it, and how they use it. If you put an SSD and 4 gigs of RAM into it, it'll run Windows 7/8/10 and desktop Office software pretty well. Even the most recent releases of both. It won't do so hot if you're heavy into word processing using Google Docs or Dropbox Paper though.

If you keep it at 1 gig of RAM and dont' put in an SSD, it'll be ok-but-not-great at desktop apps and it'll barely tread water running web apps, mainly due to the RAM issue.

If you configure it in any which way and put Leopard on it and run contemporary software on it it'll be pretty good.

Let us know how it goes as you get the opportunity!

 

[EvieSigma]

Also, can I take this to mean your R is booting again? Any idea as to what specifically was happening with it?

CMOS battery is bad, removing it allowed the machine to boot again. I got REALLY lucky.

 

[Gorgonops]

With regards to ppc/intel Macs specifically, it seems so weird because the transition era Intel Macs literally look and (mostly) run identically to their PPC counterparts. You have to specifically know a few tell signs or you just have to go look at the specs to know for sure whether one's a PPC or an x86.

I think you might be being a bit over-analytical in asking for some specific practical reason why somewhat might consider a PowerPC-powered iMac more "interesting" than an essentially identical Intel one because, let's face it, the fact that it has a PowerPC chip in it alone is going to be good enough, even if it makes *no* difference whatsoever in how the software running on it looks and feels. It's been a decade since the last mainstream Power PC-driven consumer-level desktop or laptop computer rolled off an assembly line, therefore by definition working with one is sort of a novelty.

(It would be an interesting experiment, I suppose, to attempt some sort of double-blind test in which a die-hard PowerPC enthusiast was asked to sit in front of two 17" iMacs, draped to conceal any physical tells and with the same software installed, and determine without cheating which one was the PowerPC. My guess is, of course, that in this case the whole "PowerPC is neater" thing is completely psychosomatic. This phenomenon is actually why I quickly burned out to a state of "don't care" when I was briefly collecting every free old Sun, SGI, or Alpha machine that came my way; I wanted to feel like they were cool and awesome and fundamentally interesting because they once cost eighteen bazillion dollars and ran Jurassic Park or whatever, but in practice they just felt like somewhat lobotomized, slow, and awkward to maintain Linux boxes. So far as I'm concerned crunching your numbers on a RISC CPU instead of x86 doesn't make the resulting bits smell any better, but apparently some people feel otherwise.)

I do sort of agree that the fact that you essentially have to be *told* that a machine is "special" to distinguish it from a machine that's "not special" bodes sort of poorly for many post-2003-or-so PowerPC Macs ever really earning much in the way of a retro following. The "Luxo Jr" iMac G4 was probably the last really memorable/oddball design to roll off an Apple factory floor; pretty much everything from from the G5 desktop/Aluminum Powerbook era onwards just look like fatter, clunkier versions of the same things they're selling now. Yes, there's going to be the fanatic Apple-collecting compleat-ists that will just *have* to have one of everything and will be able to talk your ear off about how the butt-side bezel chamfer of the 2009 iMacs is soooo much more, I dunno, something, than the same part of a 2011 model, but for mere mortals one could reasonably be forgiven for feeling like 2003 was the end of history so far as Apple Design was concerned. (*)

(* And, yes, I'm oversimplifying things. The *real* the end of history was 2008 when they went unibody/chicklet across the board on the laptops. Prior to that there was at least some variation in what they looked like with the lids open.)

 

[kb3wmh]

But C2D is still quite capable, if not cutting-edge fast.

I use my C2D-based Latitude D630 on occasion, and it's quite speedy (when Windows isn't having fits). It feels a bit clunky at times, but I attribute that more to Windows XP being cranky and old (I'm running XP on it so I can use it for older programs; I plan on installing 7 and dual booting eventually).

c

Yeah, I have a 2008 plastic MacBook with a 2.2 ghz Core 2 Duo, and with 4 GB of RAM and an SSD. I dual-booted Lion and Windows 10, and both ran extremely well. It could even do 720p YouTube streaming, which looked fine on the 1280 x 800 screen. I only got a new laptop when the battery started acting up, and I couldn't get an OEM one from Apple, since I'm skeptical of 3rd party ones.

 

[TheRetroMacNerd]

Let us know how it goes as you get the opportunity!

I sure will let you guys know! I ordered an HDD and it's on its way.

 

[Unknown_K]

Collecting machines that are basically worthless because they are not new enough to be useful and not old enough to be wanted (YET) is a cheap way to collect.

I recall grabbing a few IIgs systems for free or just shipping back when nobody wanted one and now people pay quite a bit for them and call it a deal. I guess you have to have a reason to mess with the machine in the first place to try them out. I passed on Apple IIs before but the IIgs was more interesting (Apples version of an Amiga). I picked up old Thinkpads when they were worthless, same with iBooks and Powerbooks. If you read the old forums you will see I collected Nubus cards by the truckload  back when few people cared about them other then high end video cards. Anybody see cheap ATTO SEIV or FWB Jackhammers on Ebay lately?

Systems older then 20 years are getting harder to piece together or buy on the cheap because they were recycled during the gold boom. But you can still get them if you look hard enough. You don't even have to look back that long to have a hard time finding stuff, PC gaming video cards that still work on the early 2000's are getting harder to find. I have a pretty decent collection of them. Earlier cards like the 3DFX Voodoo 1/2/3/4/5 are getting pricier as well.

 

[EvieSigma]

The only thing I'm personally having trouble with is buying old Macs without HDs, as the supply of 50 pin SCSI HDs just keeps dwindling and dwindling.

 

[Unknown_K]

Yup, my stock is drying up as well. Last decent deal I got 20 NIB (factory shipping box) of 4GB drives for $20 locally many years ago. Even 68 pin drives (you can use an adapter) are pretty much gone these days, and SCA drives of smaller size as well. Finding IDE drives of 2GB or less are harder as well (If you collect PC stuff).

I have about 40 IDE laptops drives and maybe 50-60 IDE/SCSI desktop drives in stock.

 

[EvieSigma]

I buy from Maven Recycling on occasion and they tend to sell machines without HDDs, but of course said machines are very reasonably priced so I buy them anyway...that's why I have a 9600 that (until the parts arrive) doesn't have a hard disk, and I'll also be ending up with a 7600 without a hard disk.

 

[l008com]

I buy from Maven Recycling on occasion and they tend to sell machines without HDDs, but of course said machines are very reasonably priced so I buy them anyway...that's why I have a 9600 that (until the parts arrive) doesn't have a hard disk, and I'll also be ending up with a 7600 without a hard disk.

I wish this place was local. I really need to trade in my PM 7300 for an 8600/9600. i have no room in my office for a "desktop" desktop computer, I need a tower.

 

[TheRetroMacNerd]

I buy from Maven Recycling on occasion and they tend to sell machines without HDDs, but of course said machines are very reasonably priced so I buy them anyway...that's why I have a 9600 that (until the parts arrive) doesn't have a hard disk, and I'll also be ending up with a 7600 without a hard disk.

I absolutely love Maven Recycling! They're prices are pretty good

 

[EvieSigma]

Yeah, and they know how to ship stuff well. Never had anything get broken in transit.

 

[Unknown_K]

Buying online is great if you want a  specific machine, card, or software, but I find it more fun digging around at a local recycler and finding all kinds of stuff you never knew you wanted or even existed.

 

[EvieSigma]

Some of us only have a Staples or a Best Buy as the local recycler...

 

[Unknown_K]

Mine closed a few years ago, which is good in a way because I have no more room anyway. The stuff you find at recyclers changes over the years anyway, so all the good stuff would be gone anyway (no 68k machines showed up at my recycler when I visited for example).

To be honest freecycle has become worthless, the thrift store that had some decent old software closed, and craigslist sellers want more then stuff is sold for on ebay with shipping. So finding items locally has become much harder (for me anyway).