• Hello MLAers! We've re-enabled auto-approval for accounts. If you are still waiting on account approval, please check this thread for more information.

That was the way things were

... with a single floppy Mac.

This is one of the best video sequences I have seen of a Mac 128k/ 512k in actual use. All that swapping of disks would, I think, have driven me crazy.

However, I have never had that particular pleasure, having begun with a Classic at work in 1991. My oldest machine these days is an SE/30, which is, of course, light years on.

 
Classic. Literally.

Would love to see a YouTube of the disk copy bug exploited. The one where the disk had to be swapped some 25+ times just to duplicate the 400K disk. Though this was pretty bad! I'm actually surprised the 512K needed that many swaps.

 
My first Mac was an original 128K with a single 400K floppy. I once loaded MacWrite and tried to open a document on a second floppy. I counted about 40 disk swaps before I gave up and rebooted. I suspect MacWrite was trying to make a backup copy and didn't have enough free RAM to do a proper job. I had to copy the document onto the MacWrite disk using the Finder before starting MacWrite. The Mac was a MUCH more useful machine after I upgraded it to 512K and an 800K floppy.

 
This reminds me how painful that really must have been. As a result, I think any sane person back then would have bought an external floppy drive. I know I would!

 
Kids today, they don't know they're born.

The first computer I programmed had 256 bytes of RAM. That''s 256 bytes, not kilo, mega or giga. Just bytes.

 
any sane person back then would have bought an external floppy drive.
Most Mac users did not have two drives, (probably due to the expense) while most all Apple II users did have two drives.

 
So we must conclude that Macintosh users back then were definitely not sane. :b&w: A couple hundred dollars more on top of the cost of the machine doesn't really seem like so much, so I kind of doubt its due to the expense.

 
My word!!! So much swapping! Looks like I'll have fun with my 512k once I get it up and running again! :)

So did that second disk that he saved the file on have a system too, or can it just be blank?

-Apostrophe

 
So did that second disk that he saved the file on have a system too, or can it just be blank?
Formatted empty disk.

When using my first Mac I only had the internal floppy, but did have 4Mb of memory and System 6. So a RAM disk was a sensible way of doing things, I kept my project on the system disk, but after I booted up I copied the applications I was going to use into the ramdisk. Lots of system resources get loaded on demand, including needing a swap in of the system disk, ironically, just to read the hour-glass cursor.

A major advance of the Mac over CPM/DOS/Windows is that removeable media are referred to by the media itself, not the drive they happen to be in. Consider using A: or B: on DOS to get at different floppies, on the mac you can have more floppies available than physical drives, if you eject a floppy and put it back in a different drive the system doesn't care.

Presumably most people will say "What's 'B:' ?" ::)

 
I haven't heard anyone mention a B: drive in ages, but I remember back when I was in high school (back in the late '90s/early '00s) most people would refer to 3.5" FDDs as "A:" drives, and 5.25" FDDs as "B:" drives.

 
A couple hundred dollars more on top of the cost of the machine doesn't really seem like so much, so I kind of doubt its due to the expense.
Wow. That's something only someone who grew up during the last two decades would say. In January 1984, the US $2,500 Macintosh was equivalent to approximately US $5,116 today. The external drive cost around $500, or $1,000 today (and wasn't even available until 5 months later). So just to get the computer and a second drive, would have cost over $6,000 today. That doesn't include the $600 Imagewriter, or $50 box of 10 400K blank disks which you needed to do anything with it, or even a $500 modem or $100 numeric keypad. Considering in 1984 one could buy a cheap car for twice the price of a Macintosh system,I'd say adding $500 to the deal would have been a problem for many. Can you imagine spending $7,000 today for a basic MacBook Air system?

The Western world has been blessed with an amazing consumer driven economy since the 90s, until last year, and many have forgotten how much less the dollar bought 20 years ago. Spending an extra couple of hundred bucks at the checkout counter today, once you've already spent $1,500 is no big deal, especially if it makes your life easier. But in those days, most could only justify the basics. The plethora of options on a car proved that. You had your choice of not only the AM/FM/Cassette premium sound package, but just the FM radio without the cassette, an AM only radio option, and even no radio. Today, there's no choice, because the addition or deletion of a radio costs nothing to the manufacturer, it's either basic or premium. In those days, even having a radio was a $500 option. And trust me, after spending $8,000+ for a car, another $500 for a radio was a big deal.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
In January 1984, the US $25,00 Macintosh was equivalent to approximately US $5,116 today. The external drive cost around $500, or $1,000 today (and wasn't even available until 5 months later). So just to get the computer and a second drive, would have cost over $6,000 today. That doesn't include the $600 Imagewriter, or $50 box of 10 400K blank disks which you needed to do anything with it, or even a $500 modem or $100 numeric keypad. Considering in 1984 one could buy a cheap car for twice the price of a Macintosh system,I'd say adding $500 to the deal would have been a problem for many. Can you imagine spending $7,000 today for a basic MacBook Air system?
I fully understand how expensive this equipment was, and how to take into account inflation, etc. But...If you were buying a Macintosh 128/512K, you most likely had an awful lot of money to spend on what was essentially a very pricey plaything. (Yeah, I'll probably get crap for that). Apple's marketing highlighted young white men, but I seriously doubt those kind of people could ever have afforded a Macintosh with accessories. For the first year, there was very very little software available for it. No backwards compatibility with the Apple II meant it wasn't useful for all those Apple II users.

It wasn't until PageMaker and the LaserWriter in '85, and then a year later, when we had FreeHand, and other programs, that the Mac actually started to get serious interest from people who wanted to get things done. I'm sure some people got by with MacPaint and MacWrite, but in reality the lack of software really affected sales during the first two years. Cost, however, probably not so much - once the Mac had this huge graphics appeal, businesses were going for it. It was much more a machine for the business world than a machine for the masses of people who just wanted a computer for less than $1,000. So, if you think about it, the people buying Macintoshes were unlikely to be sitting around thinking "ohh, ahh, umm, well that extra $500 for another drive is sure a lot of money."

Those who bought these machines were the early adopters of new technology - and they paid the price. It wasn't a "computer for the rest of us" when, with all the options, it added up more than $6,000+ in today's money. At this stage, the vast majority kept on buying cheap clones, Commodores, and Apple IIs. You can still spend silly money on Apple machines, obviously you're getting quite a bit of kit for your money, but you could spend $7,000 on a MBP with loads of options, extras. And if I was spending $7,000 on a MBP, I would not be hesitant to pay another $500 or even $1000 if it really speeded up productivity, like a second FDD would have back in the early days.

 
If you were buying a Macintosh 128/512K, you most likely had an awful lot of money to spend on what was essentially a very pricey plaything. (Yeah, I'll probably get crap for that). Apple's marketing highlighted young white men, but I seriously doubt those kind of people could ever have afforded a Macintosh with accessories. ...So, if you think about it, the people buying Macintoshes were unlikely to be sitting around thinking "ohh, ahh, umm, well that extra $500 for another drive is sure a lot of money." Those who bought these machines were the early adopters of new technology - and they paid the price.
Apple targeted students and schools in particular and from my direct experience, I had a number of friends who realized just how amazing a step forward the Mac was and could barely afford the Mac itself, but scraped together enough cash to buy one. This put many of the accessories out of reach, especially if the external disk drive only meant adding a few more disk swaps. Even when the price of the 128K came down after the 512K release, making a Mac even more affordable to both students and the average user as well, the cost of the accessories remained the same. While you credit businesses as saving the Mac, it was only publishing-oriented businesses in 1985. What really drove the Mac were these students who saw the future and bought the Mac even when they could barely afford it with PCs being much less expensive, and continued to buy the Mac even after Windows 3.0 turned the tide – evangelizing their friends and family along the way. Schools and universities were some of the biggest purchasers of Macs and even they did not have external drives (I recall only one Mac in our 8 Mac lab had and external drive and there was always a wait to use it). Early-adopters, yes – they paid the price, but it was a price worth paying and sacrificing for. Businesses also had to make choices. There were many more mom & pop shops in the 80s counting their pennies and it wouldn't be the first time a corporation bean-counter didn't understand the plight of their workers. But yes, most of them would have justified the extra drive for productivity, though many just worked more hours. That doesn't mean the home user justified the expense and there were far more of them at the time.

You can still spend silly money on Apple machines, obviously you're getting quite a bit of kit for your money, but you could spend $7,000 on a MBP with loads of options, extras. And if I was spending $7,000 on a MBP, I would not be hesitant to pay another $500 or even $1000 if it really speeded up productivity, like a second FDD would have back in the early days.
First, $7,000 is a lot of money to pay for a computer today. I don't know anyone who would spend that kind of money frivolously – they would absolutely need it for high end work and just like businesses you allude to in the 80's who wouldn't hesitate to add an external drive, they would make the investment if it were necessary. But I also know people who can afford it who won't spend the extra money on an external drive for a MacBook Air thinking they can get by without it. These are the same people who won't spend money on a backup drive, or anything else that doesn't immediately appear necessary. That is a common mindset either now, or 25 years ago. Second, the original Macintosh is nothing like choosing which model Mac you can afford today. There was only one and it was the only computer of its kind. Period. If you wanted it and weren't rich, business or consumer, you had to scrape together your savings to get one. Forget inflation and forget cost of living, a dollar was much harder to make in 1984 than it is today, the middle-class was smaller, credit was not as freely available. If you didn't have the cash, it was hard to get a loan to buy it, since computers were not particularly necessary to most jobs in those days. The spending mindset going into the 80s stemmed from the previous 30 years of conservative spending, when every purchase had to be planned and sacrifices made for things you wanted. Unlike the last 30 years where teenagers today typically have cell phones, computers, credit cards, TVs in their rooms, designer clothes, jewelry, DVD collections, video games and spending money. I had NONE of that and not because we were particularly poor – we were middle class. It was a different milieu. That did not stop me from buying a used Mac 128K in 1986 after working my ass off all Summer to earn enough money to pay for it. Not because I was spoiled rich white kid who wanted the latest plaything, but because I understood how amazing the technology was and how productive it would be in my life. And yes it was a sacrifice, even at that price and yes buying a new external drive would not have been possible at that time, at any price. Piece-meal purchases were much more common in those days, you bought what you could afford and add to it as you can pay for it. Do you hear anyone talking about lay-away anymore? No, because instant credit and cheaper prices made that an unprofitable business model. Even if you did buy the Mac with an eye toward picking up an external drive later, unless you found you desperately needed it, there was much more of a sense in those days that one could endure the disk swaps rather than spend more money you didn't have, unlike today where a quick trip to Staples and a painless swipe of the credit card later, your life could be so much easier. That mind-set was simply foreign to most people 30 years ago.

So while you put forth a fine argument, much of which is valid to some extent within context, the overall picture requires a much deeper understanding of the world in which the Mac first appeared. What I have learned from this exchange is that historical perspective is indeed far more biased than I used to think it was.

 
Yes, some of my thoughts do prove that I was indeed born six years after the Macintosh was introduced. Regarding today's availability of credit/financing, I do not take that for granted and I only purchase something if I have the cash available. I have never used loans or credit cards, and plan to never do so. I contemplated getting a credit card, but decided against it. Now, back on topic. I did overlook the education side of things, which Apple has always had a big presence in. But really, the Apple II reigned that sector of Apple's business for some years after the Mac's introduction. It would be awesome to see a lab full of 128k/512k systems.

Perhaps my mindset is just different than that of a typical user. If I'm going to buy some equipment, as long as I have the cash available, I will not be hesitant to buy what I need to get my work done properly and with ease. I do actually know people who buy whatever they please frivolously, not out of necessity, but instead out of want. I've known people who buy a new Mac every year - no matter the cost to them.

Speaking of buying accessories/other equipment later on after the purchase of the machine...In the case of my father, he bought a Macintosh SE in '88 for quite a large sum. For some time he managed by sending work to printers to have proofs done. He later purchased a LaserWriter IINT, which was a huge investment for the time. He was one of the few graphic designers in the area which could produce laser quality proofs for clients. In the end though, this marvellous equipment paid for itself.

Mac128, thank you for your insightful posts. It would indeed seem that the cost of the external drive affected the number sold. This probably explains why the 400K/800K drives are rarely seen on eBay.

It's absolutely amazing how far we've come in just 25 years.

 
In 1984 Apple offered credit cards for students to purchase Macintoshes. That was the only way I was able to buy one. I was one of those who bought based on the Mac's amazing potential. We said it was "the first computer worthy of criticism." Mine cost $1800 plus $600 for the printer and another $50 for a box of floppies. The printer was a necessity, because without it the Mac would be a glorified toy. The external drive cost more than my car, and it wasn't a necessity.

There was enough space on the MacWrite disk (with a trimmed-down system) to hold a few documents, so I got into the habit of copying each document onto the MacWrite disk before working on it. By the time the 800K upgrade became available ($300), I had saved enough to afford it. I did my own upgrade to 512K with a soldering iron and a wire-wrap tool ($90 for the RAM) in 1986.

I bought the first native development environment that became available - MacForth - and then Lightspeed Pascal a year or so later. Development software was actually more reasonable back then. I think each cost around $75-100.

 
Well, I bought a 128k and have spent 19 months getting peripherals and getting it running like a kitten. System 1.1 Finder 1.1g with MacWrite and MacPaint is what I use over 95% of the time, and the other less than 5 percent of the time I use a System 2.0 Finder 4.1 MacDraw boot floppy. I was perfectly content to swap disks, until I realized that might wear the mechanism out no matter how much I kept it lubricated. I normally have super-poor hand eye coordination, but coordinating M0100 mouse movements on a Macintosh 128k (thanks to the sturdy, solid design, and now quaintly low resolution) is a strong suit, for me at least.

So, wanting to keep one drive working, one thing led to another several times over, and I now have the trifecta of carrying case (with Apple logo, made by Apple), external floppy drive (the internal mechanism was made in May 1984, from what one august forum member said was one of the first to be made; discovered when lubricating it), and original ImageWriter.

I can honestly say the 128k is worth it whether you have the basic system (keyboard, mouse, original packing materials) or are cobbling together a system piecemeal and taking advantage of evilBay sales here and there along with other, more satisfying sources of supply. A 512k with System 1.1 Finder 1.1g also isn't bad at all, because it's a 128k with 4 times the memory.

I can't say I would have afforded this in 1984, but were I born about 20 years before I was and lived through Vietnam, I can say I would have taken out enough student loans (especially if I had the GI Bill paying my tuition) and gladly paid $2000 as late as 1990 for what I assembled in the 2010s for $295!

Even though by 1991 you had Quadra Macs selling for the same price, this machine with the three stated accessories was THAT revolutionary.

I dare say I Praise God for blessing me with a computer and accessories I wanted since I was 3, especially for a price I could afford when done piecemeal. I even have a Platinum Plus mouse with matching Kensington holder.

Enjoy your lives and hopefully enjoy my little tale.

Kindest wishes sincerely most,

Alex Harris

 
Back
Top