Tanaquil's Hoard

[tanaquil]

Thanks for the pointer back to the earlier thread! I remember that discussion, but now I will go back and read it much more closely.

Is the floppy EMU incompatible with the very earliest 128K machines, then? Or do I have to do something special to make a floppy EMU work with it? I assumed that the sad mac problem was caused by bad components on the motherboard, but maybe it's the Version A problem. I haven't tried opening the 400K external I have to see which mechanism is on the inside. Both the floppy emu and the external drive triggered the same symptoms, a badly distorted startup chime followed by a sad mac and/or scrambled video.

ETA: reading further on the threads you linked, no one mentions a sad mac as a symptom of ROM/drive incompatibility. I'm back to thinking components on the logic board. Eventually I'll post a larger pic of the motherboard and see if the folks here can help me decide what to fix.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

The Floppy EMU is fully compatible with the entire compact macintosh line. I just played Frogger today on the 128k (ROM A) using the Floppy EMU. So the Floppy EMU is not the problem here.

You should only use system 0.85 - 3.2 on a stock 128k. Everything after 3.2 gives you a sad mac. Even 3.3 which was also distributed on 400k floppies (not sure about that... my floppy EMU has a 400k image of 3.3). If those don't work then there's a problem. I'd go for Bourns filter failure but I'm not sure. You should ask Uni about this. He's the one who brought my 128k back from the dead. 

BTW: 64k ROMs, Version A are really good. I doubt the problem is ROM related. I initially wanted to swap them for Version B or C but you don't really need to "update" them.

What is the sad mac error code? Maybe the computer can't load the OS into the RAM?

 

[tanaquil]

With the external drives, it doesn't even get as far as trying to load a system (or show the floppy question mark). Starting up with anything plugged into the external floppy port gives an immediate sad mac. (The floppy emu itself never gets as far as displaying a startup screen, just lights up and then hangs.) If I unplug the device from the mac, it reverts to having a healthy startup chime and floppy with question mark.

As for the internal drive, it just doesn't see any floppy that I try to insert. I don't get the X, or any reaction at all; the floppy pops back out without ever interacting with the computer. Whatever mechanism allows it to lock in place and be read isn't working. With any luck cleaning will fix it, but I don't have much experience cleaning floppy drives, so I might try cleaning some less valuable mechanisms first for practice. (I have multiple floppy drives lying around in need of repair!)

 

[tanaquil]

I am reviving this old thread of mine (long time no see, thread!) because I got this 128K out of storage and started playing with it again.

For a brief moment I thought I had a success story. I took out the old floppy drive (which was completely seized and wouldn't take disks, let alone eject them) and cleaned it until I was able to insert and eject a disk easily. When I put the machine back together, it booted up prettily from my 128K-TPG disk and I started taking it through the various adjustments. I knew they were off because I fiddled with several pots to test their mobility while I had the machine apart.

I got past successfully setting the voltage at a healthy 5V and was in the process of adjusting the width and height (I had just finished height) when the machine started acting weird. The video went weird and the machine crashed. It didn't seem to be an immediate response to anything I was doing.

Now it bongs happily when turned on and gives a flashing question mark, but every disk I insert - all three of which were working before - gives problems, not always the same problem. It starts to boot and freezes completely on the Welcome to Macintosh screen, requiring a reboot. It suddenly gives a "not an MFS disk" sad mad code for a disk that previously booted fine. It gives a sad mac code similar to the 0F0064 one except it ends in 29. (I can't even find that in the list?) Once one disk throws the 0F0064 "no MFS" sad mac code, they all do (until I leave it to rest for a while, then the weird variations come back). At least two of the disks still work fine in my 512K with the 64K ROMS.

I'm planning to retest all the voltages through the mouse port as instructed by Larry Pina, see if I screwed something up there. I can also try the FloppyEMU again (did not work two years ago) and another external floppy drive that I know works with my 512K. Anyone else have any ideas? Do I clean the floppy drive again? Check problem components on the board? I inspected the boards when I had everything apart and could see no obvious problems, but it might help if I knew which components to look at.

Q10 on the analog board was the only one that looked a bit fishy. It had some white stuff on the top which wouldn't wipe off. (Could just be innocent residue from the install process). It's not a can, though, it's solid and not swollen or blown or anything. I don't know if that type of component goes bad.

I need to take a better picture of the analog board, can upload that later if it would help. Pics of the motherboard are above.

 

[tanaquil]

ETA: The FloppyEmu works now! I have no idea why it didn't before (as noted above, two years ago I couldn't even get it to load). I was able to successfully start the machine with two different early System disks on the FEmu.

Once started up, the computer can read the problem floppy disks I was using to test the machine before. One, however, seems to have a bad desktop file the computer can't rebuild and one works until I try to run 128K-TPG, at which point the computer crashes with crazy video. Only one disk reports no problems when viewed inside the 128K system started from FEmu, but that disk still crashes during startup with a bomb message if I use it to start from the internal floppy. All of these by the way are System 2.0 or earlier. 

I wonder if my copy of 128K-TPG is causing the problem somehow. I will continue to experiment; troubleshooting suggestions welcome.

 

[tanaquil]

ETA Too: I may have an answer! @BadGoldEagle pointed me in the right direction before but I missed it. The internal floppy motor has the square sticker, not the round one. It may be incompatible with the Version A ROMs.

I wonder how that happened, though? The floppy mechanism actually has a February 1984 sticker on the side. Did someone try to rebuild the drive with a new motor? I didn't actually see any signs of previous opening when I opened the case, but I might have missed something. For sure the analog board jacket had never been removed before, I had to peel it off. (Anyone have suggestions other than scotch tape along the edges to stick that jacket back on? Velcro pads? For now I used a bit of scotch tape along the edge of the board where there are no connections or traces.)

Also, if it's incompatible, why did it start sometimes and not other times? Is that a common symptom of incompatibility?

 

[tanaquil]

Further good news and bad news:

Good: As reported in this thread (linked above), an 800K external drive can be used to boot a 128K. I tried it with the 800K drive that works with both my IIsi and my 512K - no problems. The good is, apart from the incompatible internal floppy drive, this can now be reported as a fully working 128K system. (BTW all the problem disks and the 128K-TPG application work just fine in the external drive.)

Bad: I don't think I have a drive mechanism with the round label to put in the machine. I won't be able to start up the machine without something hanging off the back of it until I find one, and 400K drives are scarce as hens teeth, never mind ones early enough to have a round sticker. I looked at all of the floppy drives in my bin that might be old enough - no dice, not even the one that came out of my M0130 enclosure.

My best shot at a replacement drive from my own collection would be my working Mac 512K, but that machine has a HyperDrive in it and I am pretty reluctant to take something apart when it is working just fine, let alone something with delicate machinery I don't entirely understand inside it. And the floppy drive in the 512K might not even be the right kind anyway.

Has anyone managed to set up a FloppyEmu as the internal drive of an early compact mac? Presumably the circuit board would have to be run to the outside in order to be able to select disks. It would be ugly but then at least in theory I could run two drives, the FEmu internally and some other drive off the floppy port.

 

[tanaquil]

On a different topic: this is more of a pyrrhic victory than a conquest, but: reporting in on my latest dead SE/30.

I was alerted by this thread to a cheap auction for a non working SE/30:





I ended up getting it for $90 including shipping which was a bit more than I hoped to get away with but definitely not bad. As someone remarked later in the thread, the carrying case (a nice one, very clean) alone plus keyboard etc. were probably worth that much. More importantly to me, the computer case is very clean-looking from the outside and I have a working SE/30 with a chewed up case I have been wanting to spruce up. I could also use the extra analog board if it turns out to be working.

As expected, when I opened it up, I discovered that Maxwell set us up the bomb. *shakes tiny fist at the heavens* Curse you, Maxell!





It will take some time to disassemble the rest and test the various parts but I think the damage was mostly confined to the logic board. Oh well, now I have another dead logic board to practice soldering on. (My original 1991 Classic succumbed to Maxell, too.)

Think this floppy drive needs cleaning?? (close up for dust bunnies)

 

[EvilCapitalist]

As expected, when I opened it up, I discovered that Maxwell set us up the bomb. *shakes tiny fist at the heavens* Curse you, Maxell!

View attachment 23564

Maxell:

All your SE/30 motherboard are belong to us.

Also, thanks for getting that music stuck in my head!

 

[Charadis]

Oh wow, I've heard bad things about those Maxell batteries. Never seen a corrosion as bad as that before. Looks like quite an undertaking for a project. :/  

Take off every zig

 

[tanaquil]

Oh wow, I've heard bad things about those Maxell batteries. Never seen a corrosion as bad as that before. Looks like quite an undertaking for a project. :/  

Take off every zig

I should look up the pictures of my old Classic (they are on the forum somewhere). Makes this board look like child's play - I almost wonder if I could get it back to working. (I doubt it, but hope springs eternal. I have to practie soldering anyway right?)

You have no chance to survive make your time

(These videos never get old. They are different every time I look up youtube...)

 

[Charadis]

I should look up the pictures of my old Classic (they are on the forum somewhere). Makes this board look like child's play - I almost wonder if I could get it back to working. (I doubt it, but hope springs eternal. I have to practie soldering anyway right?)

You have no chance to survive make your time

(These videos never get old. They are different every time I look up youtube...)

WHAT YOU SAY !!!

Best way to practice soldering! On the bright side, there is still hope  

Yeah, this got me looking up that music vid again..in HD! I remember when people were saying how you could download the entire video in less than a minute on cable connection. Amazing. I'm feeling old 

 

[tanaquil]

The latest in my "someone get her off ebay" adventures...

I succumbed to not one but two auctions today. 

Quadra 650 (working) in original packaging with accessories plus Jaz drive (condition unknown), $165 shipped. I couldn't click Buy It Now fast enough. I have been on the lookout for a Quadra 650. A little sad I didn't get the monitor too (it was available in a separate auction, still is actually) but the shipping on that was killer and I have a perfectly good 15 inch multisync that should work fine, I used to use it with my Performa 636.

A batch of 400K floppy drives that may or may not be working...

This could very well be a pig in a poke, the auction wasn't cheap and for all I know all the drives are completely unrecoverable, but at least one of the drives according to the labels in the picture is one that might work internally with my 128K Version A ROMs. And I just can't resist the opportunity to turn trash into working treasure. (Ask me about the pile of half-working PowerBook 1xx drives in the basement. I might actually rebuild the perfect working PB 180c from that lot this summer, I think I have all the parts I need now.)

My collecting is so driven by nostalgia. I have owned a half dozen far more powerful laptops than the 180c, but I will not rest content until I have THAT laptop because my roommate had one back when I was a penniless grad student and I wanted a laptop so, so, so badly. I used to borrow it for very brief periods. (Of course the battery when fully working probably only lasted an hour at best. The active matrix color screens were power vampires. Those were the days!)

Same with the Quadra - it's probably fairly similar to my Performa 636 in specs but when I was typing my way through grad school on a Classic (see above penniless grad student, I spent a lot of time mooning around in computer stores between dissertation chapters) the Quadra displays in the Mac store were the height of unattainable luxury. That would have been a year or two before the PowerBooks came into my view. I finally did get the Performa in my last year and it was bliss at the time (color! Netscape Navigator!) but a tiny part of me has always wanted a for-real Quadra.

Some people covet the fancy car when they make it big. Me? I just want the computers I couldn't afford 25 years ago.