Shoving Mac OS 9 onto a Blackbird with a PPC card?

[Paralel]

Can one shove Mac OS 9 on a Blackbird with a PPC card? Is it possible using editing of resources and/or external software? Has anyone tried it? I tried using the search function for the forum, but it appears to be rather stupid, so I got nowhere fast.

Any info. is appreciated.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

AHA! So this is why you want a 266MHz 740 in your Blackbird.  :wink: Has there ever been any PPC upgraded 68040 system (thinking ROM support) that could get past the OS8.1 wall?

 

[Paralel]

AHA! So this is why you want a 266MHz 740 in your Blackbird.  :wink: Has there ever been any PPC upgraded 68040 system (thinking ROM support) that could get past the OS8.1 wall?

It's the next step in the experiment. "Can I shove Mac OS 9 onto a system that shouldn't be able to handle a G3 and actually make it run?"

But that is the question of the hour, has any system upgraded to PPC been able run OS 9 successfully?

I suspect the ROM shouldn't be that much of a problem because the last of the Old World ROM Macs (such as the Beige G3) can run Mac OS 9.1, so the Old World ROM shouldn't be a limitation. Old World ROM Macs can have Open Firmware versions that are so low (such as version 1.05) that all the OF does is basically enumerate any PCI devices and then it hands absolutely everything else over to the Toolbox from there on out, so it would essentially be no different than how the system boots now.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

LOL! Getting a 603ev PPC upgrade card to run FAT CODE from its day is one thing. Running it faster on a pin compatible 740 is another. But getting a 680X0 ROM based machine to run a 68K Clean OS (Relatively clean?) is quite another. 8.1 to 8.5 is a hard ceiling for the hardware, the latter requiring a PPC CPU.

edit: forgot to say PPC CPU and a PPC only ROM era. That's my WAG and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Paralel]

LOL! Getting a 603ev PPC upgrade card to run FAT CODE from its day is one thing. Running it faster on a pin compatible 740 is another. But getting a 680X0 ROM based machine to run a 68K Clean OS (Relatively clean?) is quite another. 8.1 to 8.5 is a hard ceiling for the hardware, the latter requiring a PPC CPU.

Yeah, but I think its possible. with the right tweaking. The fact that Nubus PPC's existed is a big help because that meant the OF routines that enumerated PCI devices didn't actually do anything until the PCI Mac's came into existence, so the first OF models essentially were nothing more than code that could emulate a 68k processor so it could then handle the Toolbox in ROM. Since the PPC systems at that point were essentially doing nothing more than what an actual 68k system did to boot, getting it up and running shouldn't be too bad, past that, well, it's hard to say.

Powerbook 5300's run MacOS 9.1, so that's a good sign since it was such an early PPC.

Even the original PowerMac 6100/60 can install Mac OS 9.1 (and even 9.22 with OS9 Helper).

 

[Paralel]

Further to what I was saying, Powerbook 500 series with PowerPC upgrade has a ROM ID:$077D  ROM Version:$2A. This is the same ID and version as the PowerBook Duo 2300c/100, and that can run Mac OS 9.1

 

[Bolle]

You can run up to 9.1 on 601 upgraded Quadras with some hackery, so I guess it should work on a 500 as well. (and I think I remember reading about someone actually doing this already somewhere...)

EDIT: have you read this already? http://seth.mattinen.org/notes.php?id=2

He unfortunately did not have any success with OS9, but seeing that 9.1 is able to run on Quadras I would say you can get it to run on a Blackbird as well.

German site explaining the patches needed to run 9.1 on Quadras is right here: http://www.vintagebox.de/mac68k/macos_p4.html

 

[Paralel]

You can run up to 9.1 on 601 upgraded Quadras with some hackery, so I guess it should work on a 500 as well. (and I think I remember reading about someone actually doing this already somewhere...)

EDIT: have you read this already? http://seth.mattinen.org/notes.php?id=2

He unfortunately did not have any success with OS9, but seeing that 9.1 is able to run on Quadras I would say you can get it to run on a Blackbird as well.

German site explaining the patches needed to run 9.1 on Quadras is right here: http://www.vintagebox.de/mac68k/macos_p4.html

Thank you for those links. It looks like a lot of the work they have done will prevent me from having to retread a lot of ground that has already been covered.

Now I just need to get one of those NuPowr 167 MHz units to work with. That won't be for awhile though, since I'm broke, in the most literal sense possible. I consider getting the processor more important, and that is on the way. Trying to get individual processors/chips that are exactly what you need, in good shape, that aren't Chinese rip-offs is harder than one would think.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Further to what I was saying, Powerbook 500 series with PowerPC upgrade has a ROM ID:$077D  ROM Version:$2A. This is the same ID and version as the PowerBook Duo 2300c/100, and that can run Mac OS 9.1 

Very curious. Would that be an Apple upgrade card with that ROM and is it installed on the PPC card itself? Did they let third parties use that ROM on their accelerators, specifically NuPower?

You can run up to 9.1 on 601 upgraded Quadras with some hackery, so I guess it should work on a 500 as well. (and I think I remember reading about someone actually doing this already somewhere...) 

EDIT: have you read this already? http://seth.mattinen.org/notes.php?id=2

Again, I'm wondering about Apple upgrade cards vs. third party, has anyone seen the spec on that for successful Wish I Were projects?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Maybe someone who has thae NuPowr 167 can give you the ROM spec?

 

[Paralel]

Very curious. Would that be an Apple upgrade card with that ROM and is it installed on the PPC card itself? Did they let third parties use that ROM on their accelerators, specifically NuPower?

Again, I'm wondering about Apple upgrade cards vs. third party, has anyone seen the spec on that for successful Wish I Were projects?

I believe it is an Apple PPC upgrade, and the ROM is indeed installed (one 2 MB chip for LOW, & one 2 MB chip for HIGH) on the card. NewerTech used Apple ROMs for their blackbird NuPowr PPC accelerators, they have Apple copyrights and the part # matches the one on Apple's own PPC upgrade card (341S0081 for LOW and 341S0082 for HIGH).

Have to look into the WIW projects for more insight.