SE/30 operating system install problems

[Brett B.]

I am having some issues loading Mac OS on my SE/30. The machine itself includes 32MB RAM, IIfx ROM, and a 2GB LaCie branded Quantum Fireball SE.

I have tested the hard drive. It's good, according to Silverlining on my G3, and is formatted HFS with the Silverlining driver. I can write files to it, and read files from it with no issues. My SE/30 sees it, BUT, I cannot format it with patched HD-SC Setup 7.3.5, and when using the Silverlining driver, I get one of two error messages when trying to install Mac OS 7.1: Not enough space, or, something about how Mac OS setup cannot copy files to that drive because there may be something wrong with it.

Possibly important variables:

- I tried loading 7.1 from the same floppies onto a different 500MB drive. Worked fine, just the drive was very loud.

- Mac OS 7.5 (any version) will NOT complete a boot. It freezes during the "Welcome to Macintosh" part... However, I was able to load 7.5.5 on the above 500MB drive just fine and it worked great.

- Logic board has a variety of bad caps, still works, but no sound

- SE/30 ROM SIMM seems to be incompatible with the Silverlining driver (sad mac right away.)

- IIfx ROM SIMM gives me a vertical stripe (simasimac) screen for a while at startup, then goes away and works fine

- I have also tried partitioning the 2GB drive differently, IE 500MB/1.5GB and I got the same error messages.

- In 7.5.5, with the SE/30 ROM, Mode32 turned on would cause a frozen happy Mac right away at startup.

So what am I doing wrong? I am using the 6.5.8 version of Silverlining. Is that driver version incompatible with system 7.1? I'm not sure why I cannot boot from my 7.5 install floppies as I could before. I am dedicated to getting this working somehow but it is turning into a huge cluster F of horrible.

 

[zuiko21]

I think HD SC setup won't work with drives over 2 GB, and yours may be a tad over that size -- the "1 GB" drive that came with my 7500 was actually 1080 MB.

It's strange you can't boot 7.5 all the way... but if you can boot on 7.5.5, try the patched version of Drive Setup 1.5, it's what I normally use to format and disks work great on the SE/30. But if my above supposition is true (>2 GB) you may need to partition it -- SE/30 won't mount a disk with any partition over 2 GB, at least on 7.1.

Sooner or later, your board should be recapped. Did you wash it? It won't restore the properties of failing caps, but at least will remove leakage that could, in time, corrode the traces, rendering the board beyond repair Washing is a temporary solution, but highly recommended in the meanwhile...

The simasimac effect on startup is completely normal with "upgraded" ROMs -- the IIfx didn't have a built-in screen, so its ROM doesn't bother erasing it during the initial memory test. And the video cards do not output a video signal until properly initialized by the CPU after the memory test, anyway.

Mode32 won't be necessary with the upgraded (clean) ROM; however, I have it installed in "all" my HDs, and they all boot fine any machine, either with clean or dirty ROMs. Be warned that the Mode32 installer does more things that just copying the extension, so try reinstalling it properly!

On second thought, I had some 24/32 bit problems with my "upgraded" SE/30 -- it seems that some PRAM contents could be harmless to the original ROM, but confusing to the upgraded one. Try resetting the PRAM, just in case. After that, and with Mode32 enabled, you'll have to enable 32-bit addressing in the Memory control panel.

Hope this helps, and you'll be enjoying your SE/30 soon!

 

[Brett B.]

Here are some more thoughts after playing with it a bit more last night.

I swapped the SE/30 ROM back in - and I can boot off the 7.5 floppies now, but it will NOT complete a boot with the 2GB drive installed. When the Mac OS Setup application starts to load, I get a spinning watch cursor and it will just sit and do nothing (not frozen, hard drive LED flashes constantly.) This is also with the 2GB drive reformatted as one partition, using the Apple driver from HD-SC Setup. If I put my old 500MB hard drive back in, I can boot into 7.5 without an issue.

I will be recapping the board. I ordered caps from trag to do my SE/30 and my IIci, but in the meantime I did clean the board off pretty well. I gave it a nice bath in contact cleaner so the rest will have to wait.

Here's another weird thing - initially, I had 24MB RAM in this - and every operating system I had loaded on it would only see 8MB. I couldn't get Mode32 to work so I never saw the rest until swapping in the IIfx ROM, at which point I also did the 32MB upgrade. BUT, after swapping the SE/30 ROM back in last night, I can still see 32MB...in any operating system, WITHOUT Mode32 installed. I am talking like booting off a generic 6.0.5 floppy that I made for my Plus years ago, the 32MB still shows up correctly.

I will have to try Drive Setup instead. I really think this is a hard drive driver issue, and is somehow related to drive size. It just has to work somehow, and I am surprised that the Silverlining driver did not work. I tried partitioning the drive in several different ways but unfortunately that did not seem to make a difference.

Perhaps I should just let it go until I get the board recapped.

 

[JDW]

I had problems with floppies on my SE/30 with a non-stock ROM, as I describe here:

viewtopic.php?p=51286#p51286

 

[duxbridge]

Sorry for being brief, I am posting from an iPhone.

Brett, I've got almost the same machine that you've described. I've experienced similar issues with my SE/30, however when I followed the instructions on Gamba's page on installing on a SE/30 with IIsi or IIfx ROM, it worked. Give it a try.

As for the suspect HDD, it might be that when formatted the disk is larger than 2Gb and System

7 doesn't play well with disk volumes over 2Gb, try partitioning say 1.5 and 0.5Gb and install on the larger partition and see if that works.

 

[zuiko21]

Here's another weird thing - initially, I had 24MB RAM in this - and every operating system I had loaded on it would only see 8MB.

24, you said? In my experience, there's no way to have that precise amount of RAM in the SE/30 -- it's either 20 or 32, the nearest available one. I assume you used a 16+8 configuration: four 4M SIMMs plus four 2M SIMMs. But the latter SIMM size is not supported by the SE/30's memory controller. At least, mine doesn't -- Death Chime Those very same 2M SIMMs work great in the IIsi and Colour Classic. On the other hand, the IIx does boot with them, but only sees half the size -- four 2M SIMMs appear as 4M total memory 8-o What surprises me is that your SE/30 could even boot!

BUT, after swapping the SE/30 ROM back in last night, I can still see 32MB...in any operating system, WITHOUT Mode32 installed. I am talking like booting off a generic 6.0.5 floppy that I made for my Plus years ago, the 32MB still shows up correctly.

With a dirty ROM and without Mode32, the total amount of RAM will show up correctly under Built-in Memory; but apparently the System will "waste" most of it, leaving the Largest Unused Block as large as if you had no more than 8M of RAM -- the 24-bit usual addressing limit.

As for the suspect HDD, it might be that when formatted the disk is larger than 2Gb and System 7 doesn't play well with disk volumes over 2Gb, try partitioning say 1.5 and 0.5Gb and install on the larger partition and see if that works.

I second that.

 

[JDW]

The 2GB limit depends on which VERSION of System 7 you are using:

http://www.mess.org/howto:install_mac_os_7

The skinny is, unless you are planning to run System 7.5.5 exclusively on your SE/30 (and who in the world does that?), you should keep partitions to 2GB or less.

 

[Brett B.]

I had a couple hours to play with it today and it is mostly working. I think my IIfx ROM SIMM may not be any good - just does weird stuff when it's installed. Bummer. Sometimes it will not complete a boot, sometimes it will just hang on the simasimac screen, and it definitely does not like either my 2GB hard drive or the Radius Full Page Display card. I was really hoping to use it and run 7.6.1 since I have been saving the stupid IIfx ROM for this specific purpose for like 10 years.

So the configuration I finally got working was booting from a 7.5.3 retail CD, and using the patched HD SC setup to format the drive into the 1.5GB and 500MB partitions, and then install the operating system in the larger one. Previously, I had tried the opposite of that because I wanted a large partition for applications, but I guess it's whatever. I am also using the SE/30 ROM, and 32MB RAM. Mode32 works great now too.

I guess I was wrong earlier when I said I had 24MB also... as it turns out, what I thought were 2MB modules were really only 1MB. I still have no idea why I was only seeing 8MB when there was really 20MB installed but I guess it doesn't matter now.

 

[Brett B.]

I finally got around to doing a recap job on this a few days ago, thanks to trag (great guy to do business with, BTW!)

Sound is working now, everything else appears to be alright. I have not tried the IIfx ROM again yet, but I have little hope that it will work. I found it in a IIfx that had been shot (with a gun) and figured, why not keep it...

Someday I will get around to finding a replacement CRT for it. Mine is just so burnt in. Just can't bring myself to swap one in from one of my nice, 100% working SEs.

Thanks for all the help.