Opinions on G4 Powerbook for a potential buyer

[haemogoblin]

Hi everyone

I hope it's not too late to reply to this threat I started some weeks back. I thought I'd just update those of you, who took the time to reply and give me some pretty thorough advice

I had been looking at a g4 15" Powerbook on ebay for £120, which is about what $160?? After what was said here on the 68kmla, i decided the asking price was too much. Even though it looked in great condition, I couldn't justify buying another out of date system. Not unless there was a clear purpose for it. When ever I purchase an old system, I always have a use in mind and not simply for it to fill a shelf and be a dust collector.

As I have mentioned, I've a perfectly working G4 550mhz Pismo which I use for writing a good portion of my Blog articles for www.bytemyvdu.co.uk. Yes it is slow when it comes to browsing the internet, which is where a 1ghz or above CPU might just come in handy.

It has now come to a tie between a cheap 12" G4 Powerbook or an early Macbook.

Pro's for Powerbook 12"

-Smaller then the 15" I was looking at, so could carrying it about with me

-Looks great, providing I find one that isn't covered in dents

-Is still part of the original PPC Apple range and the last of the Powerbooks

-Price, 12" PB's are not that expensive, making it an affordable spare laptop to have at the GF's

-Will run all the software I own

Cons

-Expect to get moderate internet experience, no trail blazing

-Wont be able to use latest version of itunes store along with my Ipad 3rd gen

Macbook Pro's

-Faster then the PPC

-Can run more up to date software

-Will allow me to sync itunes with my Ipad

-Internet experience will be pretty good if not equal to my desktop PC

Cons

-This is the big one, It's Intel!, I'm still struggling with the idea of an intel Apple computer, years after they made the switch. Ok I understand why it happened, but my brain still tells me that every time i see a Macbook, I'm looking as a Winblows laptop with an Apple logo slapped on the case.

-Cost, the intel Macbook is more recent and more useful which is reflected in the price.

-I will need to get all new software for the Macbook, depending on what I get when buying one. E.g OS X discs, MS Office.

 

[Gorgonops]

Even though it looked in great condition, I couldn't justify buying another out of date system. Not unless there was a clear purpose for it. When ever I purchase an old system, I always have a use in mind and not simply for it to fill a shelf and be a dust collector.


It has now come to a tie between a cheap 12" G4 Powerbook or an early Macbook.

Hate to say it, but I'm sort of confused here. The 12" Powerbook is no less out of date than a 15" one; it is in fact more limited, with its lower RAM ceiling compared to a (fully working) 15" and its cramped little periscope 1024x768 screen. In response to "Smaller then the 15" I was looking at, so could carrying it about with me", the 12" is 500 grams lighter than the 15", IE, 2.1 vs. 2.6kg. I guess that's 20%, but does that really make that much difference? And finally, last I looked (granted I haven't been keeping track) 12" PBs were no cheaper than 15" ones; in fact they seemed to be somewhat more expensive. (Checking Craigslist today I guess I'd say it's about a tie overall, but a 12" is the second most expensive listing after a 17".)

-Expect to get moderate internet experience, no trail blazing

It's going to suck in all the ways listed above, plus it's going to be more cramped than the bigger one. (Granted you may be used to it, it does have the same screen resolution as a Pismo.)

-This is the big one, It's Intel!, I'm still struggling with the idea of an intel Apple computer, years after they made the switch. Ok I understand why it happened, but my brain still tells me that every time i see a Macbook, I'm looking as a Winblows laptop with an Apple logo slapped on the case.

Can't help you there, of course.

As I said before, if you want the Powerbook (in whatever size) for the nostalgia value (/slash/ to run some PPC software that's really important to you and absolutely 1: can't be updated, and 2: won't work acceptably under Snow Leopard in emulation) totally go ahead and go for it. But you really shouldn't be comparing it to a MacBook *at all* in that case. They're two different animals.

 

[haemogoblin]

-Gorgonops

Thank you for the info about the memory ceiling, I did not know the "12 books had a lower memory limit then the "15, that actually effects my opinion. Over here in the UK the "15 models seem to hold a better price, probably because of the larger screen and memory. The reason I was attracted to the "12 book's was because they are smaller form factor, so easier to thrown in a bag and not worry about. I've currently found myself in possession of an Ibook G3 800mhz, which is pretty much the same size as the PB as i understand it. I have to say I like the case/LCD size, the resolution is pretty satisfactory for writing, the LCD panel blows the water out of my Pismo. But the latter with it's Xlr8 G4 550mhz is just that little bit smoother.

I wouldn't compare the Macbook with the Powerbook as they are different platforms and the intel's will be faster hands down. I'm only weighing up the pro's and con's both have to me and the use intended.

Again it's been very helpful sounding my thoughts on here and getting the input from people who actually have the benefit of owning the systems I'm looking at :-D

 

[TheMacGuy]

Thank you for the info about the memory ceiling, I did not know the "12 books had a lower memory limit then the "15, that actually effects my opinion.

They technically do, but the difference is only 768MB when comparing the last revision. The 12" has a max of 1.25GB and the 15" has a max of 2GB. Plus, if that 1 slot goes bad on the 15", you would be stuck with only 1GB anyway.

I wouldn't compare the Macbook with the Powerbook as they are different platforms and the intel's will be faster hands down.

In my opinion, they are about the same speed depending on the OS. Both on Tiger, the PPC would probably win. Leopard bogs down all the machines I have seen it run on, PPC and Intel, but I think the Intel would just barely outperform the PPC. Of course, Snow Leopard is Intel only. It varies.

 

[sos_nz]

Bit off topic, but any reason this ide ssd wouldn't work in a g4 titanium powerbook?

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=181165937143

 

[haemogoblin]

I'm running Tiger on all my machines, aside from the Plus ;-) hehe

Interesting that an intel and PPC will run Tiger at a similair speed, I had seen a video online of an Aluminum PB and an identical Intel Aluminium Macbook. I dont know what they version OS they where running, but the speed difference was just blatently clear when booting up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pESpQWrXGfs

I'm stil keeping an eye out on ebay, so hopefully get my hands one something in the next few weeks. I know i could probably pick up a dead cheap high spec Winblows laptop, but I already own a HP Pavillion DV7, which spends most of it's life at home, beside the sofa. I kinda regret getting it, because the sheer size of the damn thing negates throwing it in bag and taking down to a coffee shop or a friends. I yet to find a bag it will fit in lol. It's great for gaming and taking on holiday, just rubbish if all i want is to sit in town with a coffee, finishing off an article for my website.

 

[beachycove]

The last of the 12" G4 iBooks (1.33ghz? I forget exactly) will actually take more RAM (1.5mb) than the 12" PB G4 (1.25mb), and runs cooler (Radeon versus NVidia graphics), while also not suffering from the horrible reliability issues of the rest of the late iBook series. I bought one for my teenager, who had it for a while around 2008, so I got to see it up close and personal. The iBook will also take more physical punishment, whereas the PB is noticeably thinner, has more VRam, and looks much better. So you takes your pick—but I'd pick a PB if I'd decided that a PPC machine suited best. It's just classier.

On the PPC versus Intel question, the Intel machines are indistinguishable from the PPCs in terms of user interface, etc., since it's just UNIX with dollops of lipstick, after all. So the only real question is whether you want to run PPC-only software. A nice 13" MacBook Pro would outrun anything PPC-based if you are running almost any software produced after around 2006, with small exceptions generally covered by Roseta. So the age of the software is the big question, not the hardware.

But back to the PowerBook, and as to the RAM limit: if you equip the thing with a PATA SSD, you have basically got very large quantities of very, very fast virtual memory. The RAM ceiling problem, qua problem, is no more. It disappears. Thus, my 12" PB with (OWC) SSD is an excellent machine for writing and light browsing, for running old software (e.g. I have CSII on the thing), AND I can effectively open an unlimited number of applications without noticing a slowdown because of the nature of the virtual memory provided by the SSD.

But then, I have had it since 2005, it is a trusted old friend, I have all the software, etc. I'd never have forked out for the SSD had I not already had this all in place, much less bought it, software, and the SSD from scratch.

 

[Gorgonops]

In my opinion, they are about the same speed depending on the OS. Both on Tiger, the PPC would probably win. Leopard bogs down all the machines I have seen it run on, PPC and Intel, but I think the Intel would just barely outperform the PPC. Of course, Snow Leopard is Intel only. It varies.

I have no idea where this statement comes from, unless you're talking about, I dunno, the perceived responsiveness the OS/Finder or something while just poking around. Here are some benchmarks comparing an October 2006 MacBook Pro to a Powerbook G4 overclocked to 2.0Ghz with a third-party upgrade. If you're running Universal binaries it's not even close, the Intel is two to four times faster. The only times it's even close is when the systems are running PPC binaries, IE, the MacBook is using emulation, and even then the Intel stays competitive. And again, this comparing to a PowerBook 333mhz faster than any that ever shipped.

(Check out Geekbench/SunSpider/whatever scores if you really want some more synthetic benchmarks to make it clear just how overmatched the G4 was in 2006. It's brutal.)

It gets *slightly* more complicated if we're comparing a PowerBook G4 to a MacBook (no Pro) with Intel 950/3100 graphics; there were a few edge cases, mostly gaming related, where a PowerBook with its Nvidia or ATI graphics might squeak out a framerate win for certain 3D intensive tests, but that's really just about it.

 

[TheMacGuy]

I was speaking from personal experience with the OSes. Of course the Intel chips are going to blow the PPC out of the water, but for whatever reason, I always noticed that a MacBook running Tiger was slower then the PowerBook running Tiger.

 

[haemogoblin]

Well I started this thread to get an idea of what people thought to buying a G4 PB as a spare laptop. The range of responses I've received from everyone has pretty much mirrored what has been going on in my head. I'm glad I found the 68kmla forum, the one place a person can pose a question such as "Can i use this obsolete tech" and not be laughed at

One suggestion that has been the G4 Ibook 2005 model, i had totally dismissed the Ibook line of laptops. As I've stated before, I had a terrible time with two G3 Ibooks in 2006 and it has left a bad taste in my mouth ever since. I think it was that which attributed to me never upgrading past my Pismo.

I've had a look at the iBook and seen a 2005 model in good condition which I'm seriously thinking of buying. With TenFourFox and various other aids, it should be pretty good for what i need. While the Powerbook does look the part, the soft metal might not take kindly to being thrown around in my rucksack for a quick outing to Starbucks.

After spending the weekend with my HP DV7 on my lap, I'm even more off the idea of a large screen. I'd use this G3 iBook I'm typing on, but quite frankly I dont trust it. I replaced the logic board and it's working, for now...*cue sinister music* :lol: Since repairing it, I've been handling it like a fragile china cup.

 

[Gorgonops]

I'd use this G3 iBook I'm typing on, but quite frankly I dont trust it. I replaced the logic board and it's working, for now...*cue sinister music* :lol: Since repairing it, I've been handling it like a fragile china cup.

Eh, you have it now, what good does it do you to not use it? (Unless you're trying to keep it as some sort of museum piece?) Just saying. And you could always try fixing it with fire or a heat gun if it dies again. (You may not succeed, but, eh, toss the hard disk on a PATA-USB adaptor, save your data, and move on with your life.)

 

[haemogoblin]

The G3 iBook appeared after I started this thread, I was repairing it for a friend. But that friend has now told me I can keep it. I've had a play with it, but tbh it is slower then my Pismo and the fact the logic boards are so unreliable just puts me off using it.

Took the plunge earlier today and bought a 2005, 1.33Ghz iBook. After reading several reviews and watching videos on YouTube, decided it will suit my needs. It's twice the speed of the Pismo, has a decent memory ceiling and Bluetooth.

 

[commodorejohn]

Welcome to the trailing edge

 

[Gorgonops]

Welcome to the trailing edge

I dunno, I think PowerPC machines are more like "the wake".

In any case, enjoy your iBook G4. The *one* thing a 12" PowerBook G4 has over it is when you use the external monitor port a PowerBook supports "desktop extension", while I'm pretty sure all the iBooks only support mirroring. (At the internal display's sucky 1024x768 resolution.) There was a fix for that, however. Use at your own risk.

One thing I will say in defense of your decision to get a PowerPC instead of an early Macbook... I spent some time this weekend working on reactivating my "Late 2007" 17" MacBook Pro (the very earliest that will run 10.9), and I have to say I've really been put off by some of the low quality materials used in what was a $3000 laptop. Okay, I'm mostly just griping about the fossilized felt material in front of the DVD ROM drive that has stiffened to the point that it's impossible for the DVD drive to eject a disk, but... (If it were a one-off occurrence I'd blame happenstance, but so far I'm 2 for 2 on MacBooks of this era suffering this problem. The same dust curtains on my older PowerBook G4s are fine.) The hinges have also gotten quite floppy, and the wrist-rest area around the trackpad has significant corrosion that I guess I didn't remember being there when I put it away. I've had this machine since it was new, treated it well, and *haven't* used it for a long time, it just feels a lot older than its years. (Again, compared to some older Powerbook G4s, which feel new by comparison despite similar use. But then they've been blowing memory slots for no reason, so whatchya going to do?)

Probably the lesson there really is it's a bad idea to pay money for a used laptop at all, but I digress. Happy motoring with your G4!

 

[Hugh]

Took the plunge earlier today and bought a 2005, 1.33Ghz iBook. After reading several reviews and watching videos on YouTube, decided it will suit my needs. It's twice the speed of the Pismo, has a decent memory ceiling and Bluetooth.

I am typing this on a 1.33 iBook, but due to a loose joint with the Airport card which caused a KP on startup I have had to disable it and use a USB Ralink wifi adapter.

I also had to shim this iBook because unless you pressed hard on the left side next to the trackpad the machine started up with no video (black screen). Probably related to the bad solder around the Airport card.

Consequently it might run a little hot and so I'm using G4FanControl http://www.andreafabrizi.it/?g4fancontrol to make the fans come on early.

I'm sure yours will be fine, but this is just a heads up ...

Cheers

Hugh

 

[haemogoblin]

Morning guys

I'm currently writing this on my new (old) iBook G4 1.33Ghz. I picked it up from my fathers last night, not really had time to do much with it, other then install a few apps. I have to say I really like the keyboard on the G4 over the G3, the build quality feels better but I'm not so sure about this tiny return key. I keep catching the surrounding keys instead of the hitting the return.

Thanks for the tip about the G4 fan control, incidentally I posted a thread about ibooks and extending their life. I was pretty sure I had read somewhere about a fan control app, but nobody seemed to know what i was on about. I'm glad to see I wasn't just imagining it!

One thing that did happen, which I'm hoping is just a one off. Was after unpacking the iBook and powering it up, the laptop froze with the apple logo on the screen and the spinning circle below. I ended up having to pull the battery. On the second boot the ibook gave me half of a bong and then beeped at me, followed by the sleep light flashing. I don't know how many times it beeped, I was too busy trying to get it to boot and didn't think to make a mental note DOH! So i don't know if this is has anything to do with bad ram. That happened last night after initially unpacking, I've booted it up several times since then and it has not reoccurred. So keeping my fingers crossed, would hate to have bought a £74 lemon.

 

[TheMacGuy]

What OS is it running? I would recommend pulling the RAM upgrade out of the computer (if there is one, it's under the keyboard and below a little metal shield secured by 4 Philips screws). Remove the stick and run it like that. If the problem doesn't happen again, the SODIMM chip is bad. If it continues, the soldered RAM is bad

I had this happened to me on a 466MHz graphite iBook. I was so mad since it was one of the SE models, but the seller took it back and all was well.

 

[haemogoblin]

It's running Tiger 10.4.11 and it doesn't have any additional memory installed, just the standard 512mb. I'm really hoping it doesn't happen again, so far everything has been ok, it hasn't crashed or repeat the beeping since that first boot.

I've read that you can fix the bad ram, it is meant to be caused by a broken connection between the board and one of the ram chips.

Hopefully i wont need to find out