Need System 7.1 on 800K Floppies

[pvolkmann]

I am currently running System 6.0.8 on my two Mac Pluses. I would like to upgrade to System 7.1, but every copy I've found on the web requires Disk Copy 6.4 to mount and create floppies, and this version of Disk Copy requires System 7. Kind of a Catch-22.

Anyone have System 7.1 on 800K floppies, or know where I can download. Thanks.

 

[equill]

There are no legal downloads of System 7.1, whatever anyone thinks about the whole software resriction process. It was the first of Apple's Reference Releases, which had, and still have, to be bought even years after their release. This will fill you in. You will note that the Calgary link on that page does not work, and ditto for all other download sources known to Apple.

All is not doom and gloom, however, as 7.1, in particular, turns up quite frequently in new and near-new condition (on floppies) in eBay, but much less frequently on CD.

de

And then there is this: http://lowendmac.com/deals/best-classic-mac-os-prices.html

 

[Scott Baret]

Apple lets you download 7.0.1 or 7.5.3 freely and legally.

Your best bet is to look for an original 7.1 CD on eBay. I have never seen 7.1 on 800Ks (though I do have 7.0 on 800Ks).

 

[Anonymous Freak]

I have both 7.0 and 7.1 on 800K floppies. Only one copy of 7.1 that way, though, so not selling. I can image them for you, if you would like.

The disks are labelled as follows:

Install

Install 2

Install 3

Tidbits

Tidbits 2

Printing

Fonts

Fonts 2

Disk Tools

...and it came with a copy of QuickTime 1.5 on 800K floppy as well.

 

[tomlee59]

Very interesting! I'd heard rumors of, but never seen, 7.1 on 800K floppies.

 

[equill]

Apple lets you download 7.0.1 or 7.5.3 freely and legally ...

The distinction between bought Reference Releases of Apple's System Software (upgrades) and free updates has been rehearsed here many times, most recently in the last week.

Apple did (to its credit) make the update 7.5.3 into a standalone installation that had no requirement for a prior installation of 7.5, thereby effectively making it into a quasi-Reference Release which is freely downloadable. In the course of that it muddied its own distinction between RRs and updates, but it has been a boon to many people who otherwise were without a System 7 installation for old Macs (and especially PPC Macs).

7.0.1 arrived to support newer PBs and Quadras, and in that and a few bug fixes it was and is an update, despite that it was available on five 1.4MB floppies and accompanied by an 800kB tune-up floppy (1.1.1).

A Plus with 4MB can notionally support 7.5.5, which is easily reached with free downloads of 7.5.3 and 7.5.5, but I did not suggest that to pvolkmann because there is much code in there on which 68000 processors can and do choke. If the OP wishes to do so, alternatively, there are massaged/pruned versions of system Software from 7.1 to 7.5.5 that will grace a Plus rather than garrotte it. If a drop-in and go System is needed, however, I should stick with 6.0.8, as I have done with a 512Ke/2MB that has access to an HD20 and SCSI.

de

 

[pvolkmann]

Thanks, all, for the replies. I've downloaded the System 7 versions from Apple's website, but can't run Disk Copy 6.2 to make dics as it requires System 7. Also, can't use HD floppies on my Pluses. 800K disks are impossible to find that were imaged using Disk Copy 4.2.

Freak, how much are you asking for a copy of 7.0? Seems that that would be the best way to go. I've got the Updater disk to take it to 7.1.1.

Thanks again.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Well, I'd have to check to see if I have a spare original copy on 800K floppies, I know I have many copies on 1.4 MB, but not sure about 800K, I might have only one copy of each release on 800K.

I could put it on regular 800K floppies for you, and send those copies to you for a small charge. Looks like you're in Texas, and I know there are a couple other members in TX that might be willing to do it for local pickup for free.

(I have a few dozen blank 'real' 800K floppies, so I'd be willing to part with a few for little cost, but I don't want to get into the habit of sending away my precious 800K floppy disks... And don't even ask me for one of my 2.88 MB disks! )

 

[Mac128]

Very interesting! I'd heard rumors of, but never seen, 7.1 on 800K floppies.

Tom, do you mean specifically 7.1? Obviously since the Plus, SE & Mac II could all run up to 7.5.5 there would have been 800K versions of every system release and upgrade.

Was 7.1 special in some regard that it was not otherwise made available to those 800K only computers?

 

[Mac128]

I've downloaded the System 7 versions from Apple's website, but can't run Disk Copy 6.2 to make dics as it requires System 7. Also, can't use HD floppies on my Pluses. 800K disks are impossible to find that were imaged using Disk Copy 4.2.

Here's how you do it. I've been meaning to write this tutorial up.

Get Mini vMac. Take the 1.4MB 7.1 disk images you have and install them onto a blank 800K disk image for transfer to the Plus. If you want to run this from a hard drive connected to the Plus, use a large blank disk image and install the full system in Mini vMac. Then break it down into parts for transfer onto blank 800K disk images and re-assemble on the Plus HD.

NOTE: you take existing Disk Copy 4.2 images, copy them and the format them in Mini vMac to create blanks.

UPDATE: I think you can also use Disk Copy 4.2 within Mini vMac as well, to make your disk images using blanks. I know I've done it on SheepShaver, but I'll have to try it again with MvM.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Very interesting! I'd heard rumors of, but never seen, 7.1 on 800K floppies.

Tom, do you mean specifically 7.1? Obviously since the Plus, SE & Mac II could all run up to 7.5.5 there would have been 800K versions of every system release and upgrade.

Was 7.1 special in some regard that it was not otherwise made available to those 800K only computers?

7.5 was *NOT* available on 800K floppies. The Plus is the only system that can run 7.5 that was "guaranteed" to not have 1.4 MB drives, as the SE and II were available with both 800K and later with 1.4 MB drives; and both had 1.4 MB drives available as an upgrade after-the-fact.

The most common methods for installing 7.5 on a Plus were CD-ROM and network.

 

[Scott Baret]

Or with the Applied Engineering drive.

 

[Mac128]

7.5 was *NOT* available on 800K floppies. The Plus is the only system that can run 7.5 that was "guaranteed" to not have 1.4 MB drives, as the SE and II were available with both 800K and later with 1.4 MB drives; and both had 1.4 MB drives available as an upgrade after-the-fact.

The most common methods for installing 7.5 on a Plus were CD-ROM and network.

Well that makes sense. 7.5 came out quite a bit later than the Plus was canned. But certainly 7.1 was released on 800K disk if this Apple document is to be taken at its word: http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/For_System_7.1.x/System_Update_3.0_800K_Disk.txt

But I wouldn't place too much stock in Mac IIs and SEs being upgraded to Superdrives. I never saw any contemporarily during their availability. The Mac II (Superdrive), like the SE FDHD was probably not offered until well past the release of the SE/30 and IIcx models to encourage machine replacements rather than less lucrative upgrades. Both the SE & Mac II only sold for a year in Superdrive configuration in any event, so the vast majority would have been 800K drives. But I could be wrong. The more likely reason as equill hints is 7.5 didn't really run on 68000s and 68020s well – after all the last 68020 LC was discontinued well before 7.5 was introduced, along with the last 68000, the Classic.

 

[tomlee59]

Tom, do you mean specifically 7.1? Obviously since the Plus, SE & Mac II could all run up to 7.5.5 there would have been 800K versions of every system release and upgrade.

Was 7.1 special in some regard that it was not otherwise made available to those 800K only computers?

Until this thread, I'd believed that 7.0 was the last OS released in an 800K version. I got that impression from a former Apple employee, who so averred. Every now and then, though, I'd hear rumors of later versions in 800K form. Like rumors of Yeti sightings, confirmation was elusive. I'm happy to learn that I was misinformed. Now the quest begins anew...

 

[Aoresteen]

Or with the Applied Engineering drive.

Yup. If you use a Plus or an upgraded128k/512k/512Ke this drive is gold.

Took me awhile to get one and it wasn't cheap but well worth it. It's the ONLY way to use 1.4mb disks with a Plus that I'm aware of.

 

[mboconnell]

I think there might be an easier solution for you. If you have a SCSI Zip drive, and a newer mac its a pretty painless process.

Here is what I did:

1. Format a Zip Disk (I formatted under OS9.2.2 on a G3)

2. Download and install the "Wish I Were..." Control Panel, set Gestalt ID to MacPlus.

3. Put in your floppy, fire up the installer, tell it you want to install onto the zip disc.

4. After it's all installed, hook the zip drive up to your plus, boot, and Voila! os 7.1/7.5 or whatever, on your Plus.

This process also makes installing web downloads and other software very quick, just load the disc in another machine and install.

 

[pvolkmann]

Again, thanks all for the info.

Mac128, I do have Mini vMac, so I will give your idea a shot. Thanks much. I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks, Anoymous. I also have about a dozen 800k blanks, and I agree, I wouldn't want to part with them either. If I can't get the vMac option to work, I would be interested in buying a set from you, and would pay the shipping. I'd even return the floppies if you needed them back. Thanks.

 

[Quadraman]

7.5 was *NOT* available on 800K floppies. The Plus is the only system that can run 7.5 that was "guaranteed" to not have 1.4 MB drives, as the SE and II were available with both 800K and later with 1.4 MB drives; and both had 1.4 MB drives available as an upgrade after-the-fact.

The most common methods for installing 7.5 on a Plus were CD-ROM and network.

Well that makes sense. 7.5 came out quite a bit later than the Plus was canned. But certainly 7.1 was released on 800K disk if this Apple document is to be taken at its word: http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/For_System_7.1.x/System_Update_3.0_800K_Disk.txt

But I wouldn't place too much stock in Mac IIs and SEs being upgraded to Superdrives. I never saw any contemporarily during their availability. The Mac II (Superdrive), like the SE FDHD was probably not offered until well past the release of the SE/30 and IIcx models to encourage machine replacements rather than less lucrative upgrades. Both the SE & Mac II only sold for a year in Superdrive configuration in any event, so the vast majority would have been 800K drives. But I could be wrong. The more likely reason as equill hints is 7.5 didn't really run on 68000s and 68020s well – after all the last 68020 LC was discontinued well before 7.5 was introduced, along with the last 68000, the Classic.

I think that is not the System 7.1 that is available on 800k but only the System Update 3.0 disk. It would have saved Apple a bit of money to release software that took up less than 800k on an 800k disk rather than a 1.44 meg one. The price difference of a single disk may not seem like much, but multiplied by thousands of copies it adds up.

 

[Mac128]

1. Format a Zip Disk (I formatted under OS9.2.2 on a G3)

...

4. After it's all installed, hook the zip drive up to your plus, boot, and Voila! os 7.1/7.5 or whatever, on your Plus.

Unfortunately, a ZIP must be formatted with ZipTools 4.2 in order to be recognized on a Mac Plus, or a low level disk formatter. See this thread:

http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2544

As for Wish I Were ... it's not really needed for the Plus up to 7.5.5. The installer will allow you to custom configure the install for the Plus, which is best kept minimal.