MacOS 8.6 on "Sawtooth" G4

[almeath]

I recently purchased a first generation "Sawtooth" G4 - 400mhz model with AGP graphics. It was refurbished and came with MacOS 10.3 pre-installed, but the original MacOS 8.6 install CD was not included. I wanted to run old games that don't work right even in MacOS 9.x, so I want to downgrade to MacOS 8.6. I've tried emulation, but I much prefer the real thing, as some games just don't work right in Basilisk etc.

I have had no luck in my attempts to obtain an original MacOS 8.6 CD for this particular model of Mac. However, I do have a copy that came with my B&W G3 400mhz machine. I also have a "generic retail" version of MacOS 8.6. Neither CD will successfully boot the G4.

Is there any way to get 8.6 running on the G4 using these CDs or am I basically screwed without the original?

 

[paws]

Hm? My Sawtooth came with 9.02 (which crashes left, right and centre, BTW).

 

[Danamania]

Is there any way to get 8.6 running on the G4 using these CDs or am I basically screwed without the original?

AFAIK, that's a version unique to the sawtooths, which came out after 8.6 was released & needed an updated 8.6. They run terrifically well with it (My mother's G4/500 is a strangely zippy beast with it, and I think I'll take it back to 8.6 if she ever upgrades to another machine)

Dana

 

[iamdigitalman]

According to Mactracker, the sawtooth did come with 8.6 originally, but later came with Mac OS 9.0. It also says it needs Mac OS ROM 2.5.1.

I would love a sawtooth running 8.6 It would be hella fast. Next to 9.2.2, if the hardware can run it, I run 8.6 on it; unless it can run 7.6.1.

I have a 8.6 multi install CD, it has installers on it for the Powerbook G3 Series (wallstreet), Powerbook G3 (Bronze), iMac, and PowerMac G3 (Blue & White). No specific G4 installer, but there is the generic installer as well as an updater file.

-digital

 

[ealex79]

Got the 2.5.1 ROM? I searched hi and lo for it

 

[Bolle]

I tihnk the ROM would do the trick here, hm?

so generic OS8.6 install + 2.5.1 ROM would boot the sawtooth?

 

[almeath]

Thanks for all the responses. [] ]'>

The ROM on my B&W G3 CD is 1.4, and on the 'retail' CD it is 1.6. Unfortunately neither one will boot my G4.

When running the generic OS 8.6 install application I get the error "this program will not run on your computer". This makes sense because the CDs contain install files dated prior to September 1999 when the G4 was released.

So, if I can somehow get a hold of a 2.5.1 ROM then yes, I should be able to boot up. However, I have no idea how to obtain it without actually locating a copy of an original G4 restore CD.

 

[paws]

Joo think it would work with the ROM from OS 9.0 Sawtooth CD?

 

[ealex79]

It doesn't work with the ROM from 9.0 I tried it.

 

[almeath]

I've asked a bunch of people selling sawtooth G4s on eBay whether they're willing to sell me their original restore CD. Although it seems that most G4s ended up shipping with MacOS 9. I think it is only the 400 and 450 mhz versions that had 8.6.

If I get a ROM that works I'll let you all know.

 

[ealex79]

Thank you, almeath!

 

[almeath]

Everyone I have asked says that they either don't have the original install CD or that it came with OS 9. All the copies of 8.6 floating around the net are March 1999 retail copies that don't include the correct ROM. [] ]'>

Looks like I'll have to be realistic and accept that I can't get 8.6 running, at least for now.

I'm currently using 9.2.2. Maybe if I downgrade to 9.0.4 some of my older games might work better...

 

[almeath]

Good news: I got a hold of ROM 2.5.1, on an installation CD for a G4 system. [] ]'>

Bad news: The CD won't boot my G4! [xx(] ]'>

According to the system profile my machine is a 400mhz AGP based G4 with 20GB drive and ATI Rage 128. MacTracker lists the machine type as "406" and says it will run MacOS 8.6 with ROM 2.5.1

So, not booting with the CD, or even allowing me to install the OS at all (same "this program will not run on your computer" message) is really strange. The CD does not recognize the system it was designed to run on.

Could this be caused by a firmware update? Or the fact that MacOS X had previously been installed on the machine? I somewhat doubt it because I wiped the HD clean in order to reinstall MacOS 9.

Any ideas?

 

[paws]

Might be a firmware update, yeah.

 

[Christopher]

You might be able to instal directly in Open Firmware.

 

[LCGuy]

I'd go with a firmware update. Its unlikely that OS X would have anything to do with it - despite the fact that I primarily run my iMac under Mac OS X, it will quite happily boot of a retail OS 8.5 CD, which pre-dates my Rev. D iMac by several months.

 

[almeath]

I see there was a firmware update listed for the sawtooth G4s in 2001. It says it is for improved compatibility with OS X. I'll need to learn how to use Open Firmware to see if that update has been applied.

I still think its strange that a firmware update would render one's restore CD useless? It's the kind of thing you'd think Apple would mention in the ReadMe.

BTW, is there any way to reverse a firmware update? i.e. revert to factory default settings? [?]

 

[ealex79]

[] ]'>

Try install another Mac OS 8.6 with MacOnMac on the SawTooth, and put the 2.5.1 ROM in the new installed system afterwards...

[] ]'>

And... can I have the.. well you know. [}] ]'>

 

[Quadraman]

Thanks for all the responses. [] ]'>
The ROM on my B&W G3 CD is 1.4, and on the 'retail' CD it is 1.6. Unfortunately neither one will boot my G4.

When running the generic OS 8.6 install application I get the error "this program will not run on your computer". This makes sense because the CDs contain install files dated prior to September 1999 when the G4 was released.

So, if I can somehow get a hold of a 2.5.1 ROM then yes, I should be able to boot up. However, I have no idea how to obtain it without actually locating a copy of an original G4 restore CD.

I think just getting the ROM may not be enough. I remember that the beige G3 required MacOS 8, but shipped with a unique version specific to those models originally so retail 8.0 didn't work because it was released ahead of the G3's. Even IF you do have the ROM version required, you're probably going to have to hunt down a copy of the system disc that shipped with the early Sawtooths OR burn a copy of the install disc that you do have and do some tinkering to the files to force it to install on an unsupported machine.