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Macintosh SE SuperDrive and SCSI Zip 100 Drive
- Thread starter MacTCP
- Start date
maybe it is a IDE? because if there is no SCSi ID switch, then it is probably IDE or you are using the same ID as HD ...
I notice under Diagnostics and Utilities, Hard Disk Tools, there is a version of Apple HD SC Setup - All Drives that appears to be the patched version. I tried it on a non-Apple external SCSI drive and it recognizes it. So if you can add this to a boot disk or rig your drive temporarily as an external drive on one of your other Macs, this is a possible formatting solution.
I'll try the HD solutions everyone mentioned tonight.
I tested the Zip Drive on my 4400, and it works fine, no problem… What makes my Quadra 700 act this way? Is it related to the 3rd Party HP HD? How do I get the Zip Drive to work on the Quadra 700? There is an ID switch. It has two choices, 5 or 6. I tried both. Neither make it work. The Zip Drive makes the Quadra 700 freeze during startup with extensions on. It doesn't happen with extensions off. This isn't because of the Zip Driver because I tried with the zip extensions deleted. Maybe some random extension needs to be turned off? I'll try that later.
I tested the Zip Drive on my 4400, and it works fine, no problem… What makes my Quadra 700 act this way? Is it related to the 3rd Party HP HD? How do I get the Zip Drive to work on the Quadra 700? There is an ID switch. It has two choices, 5 or 6. I tried both. Neither make it work. The Zip Drive makes the Quadra 700 freeze during startup with extensions on. It doesn't happen with extensions off. This isn't because of the Zip Driver because I tried with the zip extensions deleted. Maybe some random extension needs to be turned off? I'll try that later.
It's great that the zip works on your 4400. quinterro beat me to the punch. You can use Apple System Profiler, SCSI Probe or similar to reveal the SCSI addresses that the system detects with the slider switch in SCSIID positions 5 and 6, and make sure they really are 5 and 6 respectively. Then SCSI Probe your Quadra 700 system to get the complete SCSI address space assignments without the zip installed to make sure there are no conflicts. You can also see if the Quadra 700 SCSI bus has too many or too few terminators hanging off the starting and ending bus ends. The usual rule is one internally at/near the internal end (usually the internal HD) and one at the far external cable end if there is an external cable. Enabling the internal zip drive terminator if it is last on the cable is fine, no need to plug an old fashion terminator pod on the output connector. It is safest if the zip cable is an official Iomega labelled one hooked per the instruction diagram on the bottom of the drive, not a RS-232 straight thru patch substitute. If you have a CD/DVD burner driver/software pkg configured, you could try disabling the extension to see if there is some identity crisis going on at initialization time...
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I think I just figured out more about the Zip Drive. Here's how:
1. I disabled SCSI Manager 4.3
2. Everything became unstable
3. My SCSI CD-ROM Drive worked without SCSI Manager 4.3
4. The Zip Drive didn't work even though I had good drivers that had worked on my 4400. Maybe it needed SCSI Manager 4.3? Well if so why doesn't my Quadra 700 tolerate a Zip Drive and SCSI Manager 4.3, and not lock-up before extensions are loaded?
I really don't get this. This particular Macintosh is rather odd (not running Systems later than 7.5.1 without everything going haywire.) I still wonder if the 3rd party HP SCSI HD that came inside of it is involved with this
Help me!! :-*
1. I disabled SCSI Manager 4.3
2. Everything became unstable
3. My SCSI CD-ROM Drive worked without SCSI Manager 4.3
4. The Zip Drive didn't work even though I had good drivers that had worked on my 4400. Maybe it needed SCSI Manager 4.3? Well if so why doesn't my Quadra 700 tolerate a Zip Drive and SCSI Manager 4.3, and not lock-up before extensions are loaded?
I really don't get this. This particular Macintosh is rather odd (not running Systems later than 7.5.1 without everything going haywire.) I still wonder if the 3rd party HP SCSI HD that came inside of it is involved with this
Help me!! :-*
You may be beyond normal help. My favorite quote for this situation, from Apple, no less, from the general troubleshooting aid at http://www.appledoc.com/article2.html:
"Getting multiple SCSI devices to work together is basically voodoo."
In Mac Secrets, Pogue advocates following the rules then breaking them if necessary, citing a case where double external end termination "solved" some SCSI misbehavior. Extension conflicts are always a possibility with the zip, but there's yet another timing related possibility: The Quadra 700 I think has a 5 MB SCSI capability, I wonder if the infamous Slow SCSI Extension is worth investigating since the Zip drive, a very slow device, has needed it on other less capable Macs. Do some internet research and maybe an experiment or two...
"Getting multiple SCSI devices to work together is basically voodoo."
In Mac Secrets, Pogue advocates following the rules then breaking them if necessary, citing a case where double external end termination "solved" some SCSI misbehavior. Extension conflicts are always a possibility with the zip, but there's yet another timing related possibility: The Quadra 700 I think has a 5 MB SCSI capability, I wonder if the infamous Slow SCSI Extension is worth investigating since the Zip drive, a very slow device, has needed it on other less capable Macs. Do some internet research and maybe an experiment or two...
I don't think this is a chaining problem because the Zip Drive has these problems whether the CD-ROM drive is hooked up to it or not, and the CD-ROM drive always works. I'll try the Slow SCSI Extension right now. Here's some info on it:
Name: Slow SCSI Extension
Version: 1.0f1
Released: August 13, 1996
Description: INIT to address a potential SCSI incompatibility between
slow SCSI devices and the PowerBook 5300.
This software consists of a self-extracting archive. To use, download, double-click the downloaded file (this decompresses it).
From the Readme included with this archive:
Slow SCSI Extension
Slow SCSI Extension is an INIT for PowerBook 5300 series computers that addresses a potential conflict with slow SCSI devices such as 1x CD-ROM drives (like the Apple CD150), Zip drives, and PowerBooks in SCSI disk mode. Not all PowerBooks will experience the problem and a PowerBook that does may not experience the problem all the time (even with different units of the same make and model).
Important: You should only install this extension if you are experiencing constant freezes or crashes when transfering files with a particular slow SCSI device. Installing this extension will impact performance with ALL SCSI devices by 10 to 50 percent, so only install it if it is absolutely needed! You can use the Extensions Manager to disable Slow SCSI Extension when it is not needed.
To install Slow SCSI Extension, put it in the Extensions folder and restart.
This software is posted to the "Unsupported" section of Apple Software Updates. It is provided "as is" and is not supported by Apple technical support.
Name: Slow SCSI Extension
Version: 1.0f1
Released: August 13, 1996
Description: INIT to address a potential SCSI incompatibility between
slow SCSI devices and the PowerBook 5300.
This software consists of a self-extracting archive. To use, download, double-click the downloaded file (this decompresses it).
From the Readme included with this archive:
Slow SCSI Extension
Slow SCSI Extension is an INIT for PowerBook 5300 series computers that addresses a potential conflict with slow SCSI devices such as 1x CD-ROM drives (like the Apple CD150), Zip drives, and PowerBooks in SCSI disk mode. Not all PowerBooks will experience the problem and a PowerBook that does may not experience the problem all the time (even with different units of the same make and model).
Important: You should only install this extension if you are experiencing constant freezes or crashes when transfering files with a particular slow SCSI device. Installing this extension will impact performance with ALL SCSI devices by 10 to 50 percent, so only install it if it is absolutely needed! You can use the Extensions Manager to disable Slow SCSI Extension when it is not needed.
To install Slow SCSI Extension, put it in the Extensions folder and restart.
This software is posted to the "Unsupported" section of Apple Software Updates. It is provided "as is" and is not supported by Apple technical support.
As if by magic, copies of the Iomega Installation Guide and the Iomega Software Manual have appeared along side the 4.2 driver extension. The Installation Guide has instructions for creating a bootable zip, and the Software Manual has the troubleshooting guide in detail. It would be interesting to know if the zip can boot the system with or without other internal SCSI devices on the bus. [
] ]'>
] ]'>
Electronic, self contained, but the software one is a little non-obvious. You have to click in the rectangle lower leftmost to bring up a table of contents with hot links. The first page displayed has some chapter titles which do not respond to clicks, it's the introduction title at bottom left that makes the hot links appear in a new contents window.
I made a zip boot disk with Iomega Tools on 4400, but the Q700 couldn't boot from it. The manuals showed me nothing new… :'(
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What is SCSI Manager 4.3 and why does it make my Quadra 700 freeze during startup if there's the zip drive connected? Without SCSI Manager 4.3, the Quadra 700 is very unstable with lots of force quitting, but it doesn't freeze no matter what when extensions load when the Zip Drive is connected. I know this extension doesn't enable/disable SCSI because the SCSI External CD-ROM drive works with it disabled. How come the zip drive still doesn't mount with SCSI Manager 4.3 disabled? (I have drivers installed.)
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I tested my Zip Drive with the LC III. I installed the drivers, and the extensions load at startup fine. When I insert a disk, it doesn't mount. That's all. (Its external SCSI CD-ROM drive that is connected to the Zip Drive still works)
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The Zip Drive works perfectly with the 4400.
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Both my LC III and Quadra 700 quit with error -127 when Iomega Tools is launched, the 4400 doesn't.
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I've tried all the ID and Termination problem possibilities, and this doesn't seem to be what's the matter.
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What is SCSI Manager 4.3 and why does it make my Quadra 700 freeze during startup if there's the zip drive connected? Without SCSI Manager 4.3, the Quadra 700 is very unstable with lots of force quitting, but it doesn't freeze no matter what when extensions load when the Zip Drive is connected. I know this extension doesn't enable/disable SCSI because the SCSI External CD-ROM drive works with it disabled. How come the zip drive still doesn't mount with SCSI Manager 4.3 disabled? (I have drivers installed.)
~~~~
I tested my Zip Drive with the LC III. I installed the drivers, and the extensions load at startup fine. When I insert a disk, it doesn't mount. That's all. (Its external SCSI CD-ROM drive that is connected to the Zip Drive still works)
~~~~
The Zip Drive works perfectly with the 4400.
~~~~
Both my LC III and Quadra 700 quit with error -127 when Iomega Tools is launched, the 4400 doesn't.
~~~~
I've tried all the ID and Termination problem possibilities, and this doesn't seem to be what's the matter.
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