Macintosh Performa 5200CD

[joshc]

Picked up a 5200CD locally, got it for £12 from eBay. That's right, I willingly bought "the worst Mac ever made"!

Seller said it didn't power on...

Well, we'll see about that!

Plugged it in, switched it on...pressed power key on the keyboard, yup, it boots!

Made a few popping noises from the CRT, so I thought it was going to blow up in my face at any given moment, thankfully I'm still alive so that didn't happen. :rambo:

It wouldn't boot from the drive, I could hear it spinning up and then giving up after a while, I thought this was odd as it sounded 'healthy' enough for a Quantum drive from ~1995, so I decided to power cycle this thing (quick repeated restarts) until the drive decided it would remain spinning...and hey presto, it booted into Mac OS 8 (only with extensions off, it has various Norton stuff installed, so...go figure). This thing just didn't want to wake up, and I forced it to keep going...a very very satisfying feeling indeed.

The monitor flickers, sometimes makes noises and the colour sometimes shifts, but...apart from that, it all seems OK!

Anyway, I am pretty happy with this Mac, despite it being "the worst Mac ever made", to me it is convenient with an Ethernet card, and the combo of colour monitor, CD-ROM and floppy in a Mac that can run System 7 up to OS 9 is pretty cool...

Apologies for varying photo quality, taken in haste & the booted photo is a still from the iPhone video footage I was doing.

Some edited video and plenty of restoration info/pics will follow...

 

[EvilCapitalist]

Sounds like the case might be chock full of dust that's shorting out the flyback transformer, since you mentioned popping, color shifting, and flickering.  Still though, not a bad haul for 12 quid especially since the case appears to be intact.

 

[joshc]

Sounds like the case might be chock full of dust that's shorting out the flyback transformer, since you mentioned popping, color shifting, and flickering.  Still though, not a bad haul for 12 quid especially since the case appears to be intact.

The plastics are 'relatively' OK... I took the logicboard out and broke one of the plastic clips...the other one was already broken off. I have read about the notorious fragile plastic used on Macs of this era...I used to have a Performa 6200 and that was similar.

At some time in the past, someone  put something heavy on top of the monitor vents and some of those have cracked a little, otherwise it seems OK and I'm sure it will look better once I clean it up / possibly retrobrite it.

That's a good call on the possibility of dust being an issue, I am not very familiar with common analog/video board problems on CRT Macs other than the common capacitor and weak solder joints on the B&W compact Macs, so I will take a look and see what I can do.

 

[jessenator]

There's one of these local to me and in the several(?) years they've had it up, the price hasn't budged—$1900 they're asking. 

Until we received (thanks to a generous statewide bond) B&W G3 towers for all the faculty at my high school, many had these machines. Oddly, my favorite quirk of the  52/5400 was the death chime. Nice haul for sure! Maybe one day the local seller will see the light that his definitely isn't worth nearly two grand :lol:  

 

[Cory5412]

Pretty nice find! A little cleaning to do, but I think that's par for the course.

I would like a 5200 one day, but I've got a 6200 and that'll have to be good enough for now. 6200s are also nice specifically because they usually go for very little. They are one of the least expensive "starter" vintage Macs, and because they used IDE and the CD-ROM drives often still work in them, they are easy to get running again.

"the worst Mac ever made"!

They're not really that bad.

My apologies if you've already seen all this before:

The 5200 and 6200 bench, for all practical purposes, identically to the 6100/60 in macbench 4 from 1998, and with newer OS releases (8.1/8.6, for example) fewer parts of the OS are emulated and as such you can avoid the main weak point in the entire system, which is the low amount of cache, which hurts the 68k emulator more than anything else.

The whole "right 32, left 32" thing is stuff that Low End Mac authors made up in the late '90s, for no identifiable or good reason, and became The Default Narrative. The entire thing about the serial ports and "hardware handshaking" is also all entirely fictional. The 6200 uses the same serial chip as (surprisingly) the 630, which uses the same serial chip as "every other Mac from the Plus to the G3".

In reality, the architecture is "Performa 630, but with a pre-integrated 603 upgrade chip", similar to 486 architectures that had Pentiums bolted on in the mid '90s.

More: https://www.taylordesign.net/classic-macintosh/the-mythical-road-apple/ 

As you said, they run a range of OS versions and you can add ethernet to them and the a/v kit is a cool party trick that not all other Macs have and these being slightly newer are usually fairly reliable,and the 5200 (vs. the 5260 in particular) have pretty midrange 832x624 displays, which is also an upgrade (at least in terms of working space) from what most people had on their 68k Macs 15+ years ago.

I've got a 6200 myself and it's clearly not as fast as the other machines that came after it and compared with something like an 8600 (or even a 7200, or what you can put in an x100 PDS slot) the graphics aren't great, but they're suitable machines.

It would be a good machine to put 7.6.1 or 8.1 on and putter around with IE/Netscape 4, clarisworks/appleworks 4-5, and hypercard 2.x, plus oregon trail, which is most of what people want to do.

 

[PB145B]

Man, I’d kill for one of those! Always loved the look of that particular AIO style.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

That's right, I willingly bought "the worst Mac ever made"!

Not even close! On the only metric that really counts, cost vs. performance, the TAM did and will always reign supreme at the lowest point of the plot. [}]

 

[Cory5412]

I feel like that's a fairly spicy take, but, man, at its original price tag, the TAM is such a bad value, despite actually kind of being a reasonably good computer.

Granted, it's hard to get the TAM down to what it "should" have cost, in-itu, because LCDs are so expensive and they used the best available one at the moment, so you have to look at, say, the 6500/250 and the TAM and realize that the reason why even a non-delivery TAM was a grand more was really because of the display and audio systems.

(For comparison, in early '97, a 6500/250 in 4/48/33.6 with a business performa bundle (incl. office 4.2) was $2,599 and a multiple-scan 15av was $449.)

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Spicy? Pretty tame when you analyze the numbers actually. By EveryMac's 1997 release year list prices the TAM/250 would set you back $7,499. Figuring you already had a Monitor/KBD/Mouse, you could have gotten the 6500/275 for $3,000 and spend $1 more than you would on a TAM by tacking on a low end PowerBook 3400c/180 at $4,500 onto the faster 6500 sales ticket.

Heck just get the Kanga/G3/250 for $5,700 and have $1,799 left over for a high end 3.1 sound system, mouse and a far better Sony Trinitron.

TAM was Ferrari lookin' kit car built on a Volkswagon chassis with a really nice windshield and sound system. [)]

Back on topic: I had a 52xx of some sort and it was my first rackmount entertainment unit. When the 20" Radius Intellicolor Trinitron got too fuzzy for TPD duty it replaced the 52xx. Lovely little ugly duckling in Platinum, but the later Director's Edition in sleek black is rightfully in the MoMa Industrial Design Collection. TAM's probably there too. []

 

[toples50]

I have a Power Mac 5500 black version and I have also few popping noises and flickering.I don't know if its relative only to dust as mentioned before.

 

[Cory5412]

Spicy? Pretty tame when you analyze the numbers actually.

Spicy in the sense that most people really like the TAM and most people don't have much love for the rest of the 5000/6000 series, even the 6360 and x400/x500 versions with the updated architecture.

I agree completely that at its original price it didn't make financial sense. The TAM was absolutely an enthusiast/fashion statement, or something like an executive desk accessory.

 

[EvieSigma]

I'd compare the TAM to the Libretto but the Libretto was actually good.

 

[Cory5412]

The TAM isn't a bad computer, it's a really good computer, even, it's just not a good deal from a pure price-performance perspective. The 603e/ev machines got really good reviews from the Mac magazines back in the day. They made no bones about the PCI-based consumer Macs being lots better than the upgraded Performa 630s, in almost every way. They typically said that day-to-day performance was comparable to a 604e of approximately the same speed, so a TAM/250 or a 6500/250 was absolutely a respectable computer to actually use.

Executive desk accessory isn't meant to imply the TAM wasn't performant enough to do real work on, because it absolutely was - just that if you're putting multi-thousand dollar desks into an executive suite or conference room, a TAM is one of the classiest available Macs to add to it at the moment.

The next best would have been to get an Apple Studio Display, which launched at $2000 in mid-late 1998. (Making it really more contemporary to a beige g3 than a 6500 or TAM, but, just for comparison's sake.)

The TAM's price did ultimately float downward, too. I believe you could ultimately pick one up for around $3999 or so, which is a lot more in line with what it was as a product, in terms of being a fashion accessory version of a machine that was $2,599. (Even up to, say, $4,399 or so I'd agree, in part because I don't think the 6500/250 config I listed above had the video/TV+fm kit, and then you have to consider the buy-up in sound and to an LCD display, even if you'll argue that the multiple scan 15av is a better monitor with sound that's about as good (and I don't disagree.)

You can make the exact same argument about a Libretto, because in the day those were typically based on older hardware that had been miniaturized and made to run with less power, and were more expensive than larger machines with 

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

In that case, spicy is right on for the coolest/worst and love/disdain comparisons turned on their head by the MIPs/Dollars point I was making.

I think you're unintentionally lowballing the TAM's worth in comparison to the 5200's 1997 PCI offspring by quite a bit though. Haven't heard nor even seen a TAM in the flesh that I can recall, but I imagine the TAM's Bose Sound System completely blows away 5200/5600 stereo speakers even if tweaked by adding the 6500's Sub by quite some margin.  I didn't mention that a Vidcard would be required to drive a second, better display for the TAM when I heaped the 3400c/180 +$1 onto the price of the "bit better than" TAM 6500/275.

I was alluding to the point that adding the 3400c's LCD with all the laptop trimmings almost puts that cost into perspective. However I recall Dr. Bob making the point once upon a time that the custom analog output to LCD converter board was a goodly percentage of the component costs of the low production volume TAM. So LCD plus controller board would be considerable. As for intentional low production, amortization of hard tooling development costs needs to be figured in as well.

None of the computers mentioned were bad. The TAM was spot on perfect for the receptionist's desk of a tech, design or any edgy corporate office suite. The TAM reminds me of the sexiness of intro year Mustang of my youth, badass to the bone even if was for all practical purposes a Ford Falcon in TAM sheet metal with the CD option.

Directly back on topic: loved my 52xx for what it was. Reminds me of a beautiful butterfly emerging from the cocoon of a butt-ugly, knobbly 5xx caterpillar. Maybe a well conformed moth with shadow mask eyes plenty good enough for its short, single purpose lifespan as opposed to the sharp Trinitron eyesight of its caterpillar's scrambling for survival phase. No comparison between the buck toothed MacTV and the all black Director's edition possible. A budget 15" TV trumped a 12" Sony Trinitron TV any day of the week and twice on any given Sunday's living room. Had a couple of 5xx machines and never took a shine to them enough to complete half done 12" TAKKY/G3 hack ten years ago. The only thing missing from the 5200 was the later Cache Slot/PCI slot upgrades. Having one of those would have had me scrambling to find a Trinitron a couple of inches smaller than the 17 incher from the rug rat's desk and some black spray paint. loved that 5200 for a few years though. :approve:

edit: TAM is the fourth "type fill" hit for a "twentieth anniversar" search on DuckDuckGo. It's smack in between traditional gift and gift for wife!

 

[EvilCapitalist]

Haven't heard nor even seen a TAM in the flesh that I can recall, but I imagine the TAM's Bose Sound System completely blows away 5200/5600 stereo speakers even if tweaked by adding the 6500's Sub by quite some margin.

They're not even in the same zip code, let alone ballpark.  Much as I rag on Bose the speaker system in the TAM is noticeably better than any other integrated speaker system in an Apple machine of that period.

 

[Cory5412]

I think you're unintentionally lowballing the TAM's worth in comparison to the 5200's 1997 PCI offspring by quite a bit though. Haven't heard nor even seen a TAM in the flesh that I can recall, but I imagine the TAM's Bose Sound System completely blows away 5200/5600 stereo speakers even if tweaked by adding the 6500's Sub by quite some margin.

Sure, the 5000 series wasn't really meant to be used as a stereo, they were meant to be used by large groups of children together with headphones. (So-much so that, in retrospect, I'm surprised Apple didn't come up with the "two headphone jacks" trick from the G3AIO and the iMac G3 earlier on.)

The 6500+MS15AV would be a better comparison, but even then, fairly nice multimedia computer setups were only a couple hundo. You could buy a MS1705 or MS15[non-av] instead and get a speaker setup, but it arguably wasn't even until a couple more years down the line that "computer as a music player" even made sense. 

Granted, with Apple, it's often all about the packaging and the experience: and the TAM has that in spades. 

And, saying that a TAM is "probably" fairly priced at $4,399 is still giving Apple over a thousand dollars per unit to build what's essentially a 6500/250 with a 3400 screen and keyboard and some nicer than usual speakers,

But, you are also right about the custom form factor and other electronics meant to make that happen for an explicitly special edition/low production volume machine. Given that Apple wasn't entirely out of troubled waters with their money troubles at the time, selling a $10,000 ($7,500 without delivery, as noted) special edition was probably not the best move they could've made.

coolest/worst and love/disdain comparisons turned on their head by the MIPs/Dollars point I was making.

Despite being a little contentious, it is the single most common reason people have to dislike the TAM, followed by the notion that it's somehow a "bad" computer because it was a part of the consumer-focused 6000 series, so, it's not that spicy. It's one of those "unpopular opinion" things that's actually a fairly popular opinion.

 

[joshc]

Thanks for all the interest in this, there's been more interest in this 5200CD than my socketed Daystar SE/30!

I am well aware that these Macs aren't really that bad, hence my use of quotations when saying "worst Mac ever" ;-)

At the end of the day, you can pick one of these up for £20 but the cheapest TAM is probably £700 or so, at least. The TAM looks nice and it's obviously a more 'desirable' machine in the scheme of Apple's history but I don't have a real desire to own one. I tend to collect stuff I can obtain for less than £100 or so. Call me a cheap ass.

I have a Power Mac 5500 black version and I have also few popping noises and flickering.I don't know if its relative only to dust as mentioned before.

Let me know if you work it out...I'd love to stop mine doing that.

I don't know why, but I spent about 2 hours messing with system extensions, rebooting over and over, trying different things, to get this to a state where I could use the built-in Ethernet card. In the end I got nowhere, actually the drive gave up after a few hours and at the moment, while it still spins up, it won't boot from it. I have a CompactFlash card coming and I will put an IDE to CF adapter in here. A fresh install will do it some good, the installed Open Transport/TCP stuff was just not working and I got nowhere with it.

Meanwhile, while I wait for those parts, I had time to open it up...

Logicboard was pretty dusty, and the battery had started to corrode. Thankfully these Macs use a battery thats in a plastic case so it hadn't ruined the logicboard. The battery connector on the logicboard side is corroded but I think it can be saved. I gave the logicboard a good scrub with IPA and rinsed it with more IPA, here's before/after with just an initial 'sweep' with the anti-static brush...



And after IPA treatment...



The battery that is destined for the bin...



I didn't have it in this position for long, I got freaked out that I was going to crush the front bezel plastic and break it under the weight of the CRT, so I soon moved it upright again.



Dusty flyback...



My cleaning station...



And before I forget...some of the battery corrosion managed to somehow spread onto the modem card...thankfully the Ethernet card is very clean and corrosion free!

 

[SophieRose]

Brilliant, I have a soft spot for these macs having had a 5400 back in the late 90s given to me, I have a 5300 now with a 120MHz 5400 board in and I just love it even if the CSII ethernet cards are hard to get hold of cheap.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

That's a good call on the possibility of dust being an issue, I am not very familiar with common analog/video board problems on CRT Macs other than the common capacitor and weak solder joints on the B&W compact Macs, so I will take a look and see what I can do.

You've got me playing with bits from my systems. If you still have it apart for cleaning/troubleshooting the A/B, could you take detailed shots of it and the front panel control board for me? I might help those interested to check for possible causes of your popping sounds and flickering of the display. Is yours a Rev. A or Rev. B? You can tell by the speakers Housed in Rev. B like the Q630 or not housed in Rev. A.



My 52x0 was Rev. B so it was likely a low end, late production Performa available while the Rev. B variants variants of 5400/5500 were at the top end of the AIO spectrum. I'm hoping yours is Rev. B as well because the Analog Boards are different and the documentation has a much more simple diagram:



If yours is Rev. A here's the A/B diagram. The appear to be the same diagrams in the 5200/5300 Service Source as in the 5400-5500 Service Source.



The stereo speaker amp looks to be on the A/B in the AIO variants, where it's on the Audio/Monitor Connection Subassembly in the Q630-6500 series.



Here's the Rev. A Analog board diagram if that's what you have on hand:



I can't make heads or tails out of that one. The Rev. B board appears to have a pair of ribbon cable connections to the Loom/MoBo heck if I can see how this one is connected, so I'm almost hoping yours is a Rev. A setup. That'd be counterproductive for my project though. All I wanna do is build a stereo amp board on the Rev. B A/B to add these puppies to my 6400/6500 BenchMac Kluge to go with the Sub:



That should be easily enough figured out in troubleshooting the A/B. I hope someone with the variant differing from yours will chime in. If folks aren't having serious problems with the Analog Boards of this series yet, they fairly soon will be. :/

They're not even in the same zip code, let alone ballpark.  Much as I rag on Bose the speaker system in the TAM is noticeably better than any other integrated speaker system in an Apple machine of that period.

I'm wondering if hooking up a Sub from the 6400/6500 to your 5200 might be possible? At 13 3/4" wide it may not be hidden bolted up to the backside of an AIO? So what are the dimensions of the ass end of your 5200, @joshc? It may not be Bose, but the sound might be much better than it is ATM. [}]