Mac SE FDHD - Disk Drive "Stuck", Buzzing

[macsegamer]

Hi there. I'm a newbie. Thanks for your patience.

I've got a Mac SE. It's old but the monitor is still so sharp and bright I just can't let it go. Most of its problems are due to the fact I never had the opportunity to use it much.

Previously it would boot, but recently I've gotten the ?-disk startup problem. That, as they say, is another story.

But I was trying to boot from its disk drive to at least get somewhere, and the disk I used turned out not to be a boot disk as I had hoped. In any case, it stuck in the drive, and wouldn't fully eject.

I used the paperclip-in-the-hole trick and that got the disk out, but now the drive buzzes and won't accept any other disks. They all just get stuck and won't read.

I'm hoping there's a fix for my drive and I won't have to replace it, but if I do have to replace it, I've never opened a Mac SE before, and I just don't know what to replace the drive with.

If I used something new, I'd miss the old disk drive's sounds. You know what I mean. Any thoughts or links about trying to salvage what I've got before I take more drastic measures?

The ?-disk must mean the HDD is on its way out and I'd miss that sound too, but I really don't have the money for vintage mint hardware, if it's as much as I fear. Same is so for this problematic FDD unless I've overestimated costs.

But while I've played surgeon with modern PC innards, I'm not quite confident in my skills with an SE. The few guides I've peeked into suggest that it's a little complicated. Think a first-timer could dive in or maybe I should hire some restoration, or maybe even sell what I've got and eBay myself something without issues? I'd hate to give this one up. The CRT is crisp.

If I could buy an SE/30 equally crisp and pay someone to outfit it to my specifications (ethernet, big HDD, maybe CD-rom drive compatibility under system 6) I'd sell what I've got. But I just really don't know what the smart play here is. I have no idea if repairing it with parts would cost so much or be such a bother that I'd be better off selling it and buying something. What would you do?

No matter what, once I get the machine working again somehow, I'm buying the best Apple Extended Keyboard I can find. They are truly boss.

 

[just.in.time]

If you want to fix this machine you are going to have to open it. This involves getting a really long t8 bit to reach all the way up under the handle. 2 screws there, 2 near the ports. There are plenty of take apart guides and Apples official service manual floating around.

Your hard drive is most likely failing mechanically. I'd say a small chance it's just corrupted and a reinstall of system software could fix it. Don't hold your breath though. Good news is system 6 is definitely floppy usable if you decide not to replace the hard drive.

As to the floppy drive, it may just need a cleaning/lubrication. I would stop trying to use it until you maintenance it. See following link:

https://wiki.68kmla.org/index.php/Floppy_Drive_Lubrication

Good luck and post any other questions you have.

Don't electrocute yourself. See takeapart guides on the SE line for areas to avoid touching.

 

[bdurbrow]

Umm... that's a Torx T15, not a T8. Also, a sheet metal spring clamp to pry the case open after removing the screws is handy. 

Ditto on the not-electrocuting yourself part.

Compact Macs have CRTs in them that retain high voltage even when turned off and unplugged... and there's enough capacity in the CRT to cause your heart to stop if you get the current flow thru your body just wrong - and if you do happen to survive, I'm told that it really, really hurts. So, make sure you discharge the CRT before digging around inside it.

If you are not comfortable doing this; then it's best to have somebody else who has good skills working with CRTs and high voltage do it.

And once you do get in there; be careful of the neck of the CRT - it's quite fragile, and you really, really don't want to bap it with your hand (which is really easy to do when pulling up on the connectors to get the motherboard or drives out).

 

[Compgeke]

For opening the systems you don't even need to pry open a case with anything. Just remove the screws and pick it up from the back shell, give it a little squeeze on the sides and a slight shake and it'll pop right off. 

As for the CRT though, I really wouldn't worry about it. It's easy enough to avoid it and as long as you don't go slamming your hand into it, licking capacitors or ripping the red suction cup off you'll be fine. Just probing around the floppy drives, logic board, connection to the logic board, etc you aren't going to run into anything dangerous. I believe most SEs have a discharge circuit anyway, but don't take that to mean you shouldn't attempt a discharge before doing CRT work if ever needed.

 

[bdurbrow]

Both my 128k and SE won't open just by gentle shaking... but, they are early machines, so perhaps the molds they were made from were a bit tighter than yours?

IIRC, the Aquadag on the inside of the CRT is pulled to positive 15 to 30 kv or so relative to ground (which is why that terminal is called the anode - it's positive), by a high voltage transformer and diode arrangement. Usually this high voltage circuit is completely enclosed in a high-voltage insulator, and there isn't any high voltage on the driver PCB itself, but I'm not familiar with the specifics of the SE's high voltage drive circuit, so I can't say for certain that there is no exposed points on the Analog Board that carry the CRT anode voltage.

To make the obligatory automotive analogy, it's like working on a car: if you go in with no clue, and start poking about at random, you could very well end up having a very bad time ("gee, what's this smelly stuff in the big tank in the back? I wonder what'll happen when I try to use my grinder on it?"). But, if you take some time to do proper research before starting, you'll probably be OK ("Ahh, there's gasoline coming out of that fuel hose I just unclipped and capped off; better let it fully evaporate and clear out of the air around here before starting anything that could be an ignition source. Also, good thing I'm wearing nitrile gloves and have plenty of ventilation going.").

licking capacitors

:O

If you do that, be sure to post it on YouTube, so that the rest of us can ridicule you, er, I mean, uh, be informed as to the results of such an action. 

 

[carguyty]

I recently started a full resto on a SE/30. It has the same SuperDrive but the HD is a 40Mb Apple branded Quantum. My SuperDrive decided that it was going to start playing with my emotions when it didn't want to give up the disks anymore. I went to the forums and YouTube and rolled up my sleeves. The thing with any restoration is that you need to be romantic and cynical just the same.

Be romantic and think that this is how machines are supposed to be. This is how an OS SHOULD operate. Simple is better, clever is better-er! But with that comes the sense that your computer is on borrowed time. The warranty is run out. It is already dead from lack of development. We are merely the caretakers of the archives. Consider that the SuperDrive is already dead and don't be afraid of "making it worse".

My floppy disks wouldn't eject and the sound was terrible. I followed the instructions and found that the little bitty plastic gear was shedding teeth because this was the first time in 20 years somebody had made it do any work. In trying to find a replacement drive, I found out that I can have the gear for about half the price. Pragmatism vs romanticism told me that even though it was a better deal to buy the $40 drive (parts / cost) compared to the $20 gear, I would be doing a disservice to the community that has helped me get here if I didn't do my part to keep parts in circulation for those that need them. Turns out it's dead simple to tear down both the computer as well as the disk drive.

A slightly more hold-your-breath moment for me was tearing apart the hard disk. That poor guy was plagued with a stuck armature. But I went to the forums and the 'Tubes and found enough of a guide that would help me out. After all, the thing was already dead. I cleaned the gooey plastic bump-stops and replaced them with clear plastic aquarium air line. It works very reliably now and could probably endure another 5-10 years. Preparing for that, I bought a SCSI2SD and it's more than I could have wanted!

I get the romantic desire to have the clicky sounds and the whirring motors, but consider the minor upgrades that can be made to sustain its operation. SCSI2SD, SCSI2CF, Floppy Emu...they all have their place and can make these machines even more desirable in our little museums of computational history. If you would like the help getting in there and getting greasy, this is the place for technical guidance. Many of us have been down that road. If you feel better looking at the manuals of the age, I have a couple specifically about the SE. There are others around. I'm going to make a bit of a take-apart when the gears and SCSI2SD mount finally come in.

If you buy nothing else, iFixit has a wonderful set of precision screwdrivers for under $30. Fry's has them too.

 

[just.in.time]

Umm... that's a Torx T15, not a T8. Also, a sheet metal spring clamp to pry the case open after removing the screws is handy. 

That is correct, my mistake.

Seconded on the CRT, as far as discharging/not-discharging goes.  On all my compact machines I can get away with logic board/disk drive/hard drive work without discharging.  I just stay very aware of where my hands are so as to not brush the wrong part (ie. connections anywhere near the CRT and the Analog board all together).

That said, with ANY work I do on the analog board or CRT (aside from video adjustments that must be made while computer is running), I discharge it.  Even if I haven't powered it on in a month, I still treat it as though it is charged and bust out my home-made discharge tool.

Also, another happy SCSI2SD customer here.  And the v5 boards have the hookup for the LED activity light found on the SE & SE/30 line (make sure you have it hooked up the correct way before closing back up the computer... speaking from experience).  So far I have one in my SE/30 and one in my Color Classic.  The drive noises are nice and all, but so is a bunch of space that is relatively fast and should last a long time.  And the fact that the LED light can still work is really what I was after.

Edited to add:  I've never had to use any opening tool on any of my compact Mac computers.  They all pull open easily once the screws are out.  I imagine in a pinch you could use an old credit card or something else thin and made of plastic to help pry the back off (don't use anything metal).

 

[peafour]

To open the case, I used something like this: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12x-Opening-Plastic-Pry-Tools-for-Apple-iPhone-iPod-NEW-/221494244982?hash=item339215f676:g:cM0AAOSwPe1T0isB

I had done a bit of iPod repair 10 years or so ago, and I never throw out specific tools so I had a bunch of different kinds laying around.

 

[bdurbrow]

Also known as "spudgers" - and no, I have no idea where the name came from. But - yeah, they're great to have around; especially for those doggon' FFC connectors.