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Mac 512K to Nintendo 3DS
- Thread starter napabar
- Start date
Jonathan, search for napbar and 512K and you will find numerous postings about his procedures for connecting to the various devices.
My procedure for connecting to a Mac is detailed here: http://mac128.com/
My procedure for connecting to a Mac is detailed here: http://mac128.com/
Here's my main page with more videos.
http://web.me.com/nilesmitchell/Mac512k/Welcome.html
Click on "The details" link at the top for an article on how it all works.
http://web.me.com/nilesmitchell/Mac512k/Welcome.html
Click on "The details" link at the top for an article on how it all works.
napabar, I've been thinking about our discussion via PM, which centers on your use of the PowerBook G3 as the intermediary computer that links the 512k to the modern world. Would the software you run on the PowerBook work on an SE/30 running 7.5.5 or perhaps 8.1? I can run System 7.5.5 with the stock SE/30 ROM or OS 8.1 with a IIsi or IIfx ROM. My SE/30 has the means to connect to my Mac 512k via LocalTalk, plus the SE/30 also has Ethernet too. I was just wondering if an SE/30 would work, or if one really should use the PowerBook G3 you use.
Although I've never tried it, I do know of Apple LocalTalk Bridge, a 100% software solution that links LocalTalk computers over Ethernet, and it works on an SE/30. But I believe the protocol across LocalTalk Bridge is AppleTalk, which means it would not work to connect a Mac 512k with any flavor of OS X beyond 10.4.
Although I've never tried it, I do know of Apple LocalTalk Bridge, a 100% software solution that links LocalTalk computers over Ethernet, and it works on an SE/30. But I believe the protocol across LocalTalk Bridge is AppleTalk, which means it would not work to connect a Mac 512k with any flavor of OS X beyond 10.4.
JDW,
The software I'm running on the PowerBook G3 is called Rumpus. It requires a PPC Mac to run. As far as I understand, even version 1.0 of this software required a PPC. The company Maxum made Mac FTP server software initially for Apple's AppleShare server software in the late 90's since Apple had no FTP solution. Maxum then made the software available as a stand alone product. Maxum still makes Rumpus today for OS X. They still have a link up on there site for version 3.5.6, the last version to run on the Classic Mac OS.
http://ftp.maxum.com/DownloadPackages/RumpusClassic.sit
You can bridge LocalTalk to Ethernet in a few different ways, but the last flavor of OS X to be able to use older, "pure" AppleTalk for file sharing would be 10.2. IIRC, 10.3 could "see" legacy AppleTalk servers, but the subsequent connection had to be over TCP/IP (requiring laster versions of AFP that could do TCP/IP). 10.4 and 10.5 had AppleTalk for printers only. Many, many people get AppleShare (AFP) and AppleTalk confused, so no doubt some of our fellow forum members will debate this.
The software I'm running on the PowerBook G3 is called Rumpus. It requires a PPC Mac to run. As far as I understand, even version 1.0 of this software required a PPC. The company Maxum made Mac FTP server software initially for Apple's AppleShare server software in the late 90's since Apple had no FTP solution. Maxum then made the software available as a stand alone product. Maxum still makes Rumpus today for OS X. They still have a link up on there site for version 3.5.6, the last version to run on the Classic Mac OS.
http://ftp.maxum.com/DownloadPackages/RumpusClassic.sit
You can bridge LocalTalk to Ethernet in a few different ways, but the last flavor of OS X to be able to use older, "pure" AppleTalk for file sharing would be 10.2. IIRC, 10.3 could "see" legacy AppleTalk servers, but the subsequent connection had to be over TCP/IP (requiring laster versions of AFP that could do TCP/IP). 10.4 and 10.5 had AppleTalk for printers only. Many, many people get AppleShare (AFP) and AppleTalk confused, so no doubt some of our fellow forum members will debate this.
The PowerBook G3 is one of the most versatile and amazing Macs you can have in your collection. I can't say enough positive things about my Pismo, which I upgraded with a G4 daughter card. Still find it extremely useful to this day, especially for bridging the vintage-to-modern gap. Apple truly doesn't build 'em like that anymore.
That said, if PPC is the base requirement, and one wants to keep their collection limited to the vintage compacts, a Color Classic would be the best solution, upgraded with a 575 mother board and a PPC processor card. This configuration is switchable, so it can be run as a 68040, without much difference between it and a CC II for authenticities sake, and the ability to software switch to a PPC to run the transition software. And unlike an Intel "mod", this is still a basically authentic upgrade solution, contemporary to the CC, not to mention easily restorable to stock configuration.
Is there any plug and play PPC upgrade for the SE/30?
That said, if PPC is the base requirement, and one wants to keep their collection limited to the vintage compacts, a Color Classic would be the best solution, upgraded with a 575 mother board and a PPC processor card. This configuration is switchable, so it can be run as a 68040, without much difference between it and a CC II for authenticities sake, and the ability to software switch to a PPC to run the transition software. And unlike an Intel "mod", this is still a basically authentic upgrade solution, contemporary to the CC, not to mention easily restorable to stock configuration.
Is there any plug and play PPC upgrade for the SE/30?
I looked at several Macs when I was looking for the ultimate bridge machine. I finally choose a WallStreet model for the following reasons:
1. LocalTalk. This was the last Mac with LocalTalk. You can't add this on after the fact! USB to Serial adapters do not do LocalTalk. While you can buy stand alone LocalTalk to Ethernet adapters, like AsanteTalk, you're still dependent on your Router or Switch to support AppleTalk. Crazy as it sounds, there are some out there that don't! I want to future-proof myself in everyway.
2. Apple SuperDrive Floppy. This was the last Mac with Apple's SuperDrive Floppy disk, critical if you plan on making 400k/800k floppy disks for your older compact Macs. USB Floppy drives are really PC drives. They do not work with 400k/800k Mac floppies.
3. Size. Getting a PowerBook over a Desktop saves a lot of room, especially when it's being used primarily as a bridge.
4. Expandability. A wonderful and easy to exapnd Mac. Easily Add CD/DVD, Floppy, Extra Battery, USB, FireWire, 100MB Ethernet, Wi-fi, RAM, processor upgrades.
5. Silence. Again, since it's mainily a bridge, I want quiet! These Macs boot from Compact Flash like a charm! Slightly faster than from the hard drive (and much faster with a 32-bit cardbus adapter which I'm still hunting for). I removed the Hard Drive and boot from external CF. No fan comes on. Complete silence!
1. LocalTalk. This was the last Mac with LocalTalk. You can't add this on after the fact! USB to Serial adapters do not do LocalTalk. While you can buy stand alone LocalTalk to Ethernet adapters, like AsanteTalk, you're still dependent on your Router or Switch to support AppleTalk. Crazy as it sounds, there are some out there that don't! I want to future-proof myself in everyway.
2. Apple SuperDrive Floppy. This was the last Mac with Apple's SuperDrive Floppy disk, critical if you plan on making 400k/800k floppy disks for your older compact Macs. USB Floppy drives are really PC drives. They do not work with 400k/800k Mac floppies.
3. Size. Getting a PowerBook over a Desktop saves a lot of room, especially when it's being used primarily as a bridge.
4. Expandability. A wonderful and easy to exapnd Mac. Easily Add CD/DVD, Floppy, Extra Battery, USB, FireWire, 100MB Ethernet, Wi-fi, RAM, processor upgrades.
5. Silence. Again, since it's mainily a bridge, I want quiet! These Macs boot from Compact Flash like a charm! Slightly faster than from the hard drive (and much faster with a 32-bit cardbus adapter which I'm still hunting for). I removed the Hard Drive and boot from external CF. No fan comes on. Complete silence!
Just to clarify, Napabar is saying that the earlier models of the PowerBook G3 (pre-Pismo) are the even more versatile ones. In other words, any PowerBook G4 up to the PDQ models would have both ADB and serial ports that will work with LocalTalk -- a necessity for anyone trying to reproduce Napabar's success with networking the oldest Macs like the 512k to the newest Macs running OS X Lion.
Excellent points napbar. Did not think of the LocalTalk issue, as I use Ethernet.
The Wallstreet is an amazing PowerBook as well. Though if going this route the PDQ is the way to go as it fixed some heat and power issues. Also, there were G4 upgrade cards for the Wallstreet as well.
One point here, make sure it comes with the original Apple floppy drive module as there were lots of third party drives sold, since the CD-ROM was the most common module sold with it. Third party drives will provide 1.44MB disk support only, not 400K/800K.
The Wallstreet is an amazing PowerBook as well. Though if going this route the PDQ is the way to go as it fixed some heat and power issues. Also, there were G4 upgrade cards for the Wallstreet as well.
One point here, make sure it comes with the original Apple floppy drive module as there were lots of third party drives sold, since the CD-ROM was the most common module sold with it. Third party drives will provide 1.44MB disk support only, not 400K/800K.
The only downside to the Wallstreet solution (to link a 512k to the modern world) is the fact they are notebooks and are more fragile than desktops as a result. The Wallstreets are also rather hard to find. I didn't find much at all on EBAY, and the 300MHz PDQ's are quite rare. A lot of what I saw had broken screen hinges or other problems that would take more time and money (and a fair chunk of money for guys like me living outside the US). That's why I was thinking more about my SE/30 as playing the role of intermediary machine, linking a 512k to say a OS X Lion iMac QuadCore. So long as the software Napabar is using works on System 7 (or perhaps up to OS 8.1), then I don't see why an SE/30 wouldn't work. But I've not yet tried the software Napabar uses to know for sure what's possible.
Yes they are! That's why I jumped on mine when I had the chance. It cost me 60$ and came with its optical drive. The drive later turned out to be broken, which got me a free Zip 100 for it and some CD's. One of which being TechTool Deluxe 2.5.5, which saved my B&W's butt last night. (Not really, but at least I know I need a new HDD or cable
) )I love my PDQ. It runs Classilla nicely, can do airport and localtalk. It has ADB for any kbd or mouse I would want to use. I can do Zip 100 or CD-ROM... or both at the same time.
To be honest it's like my B&W, only a 100MHz slower and a bit lower resolution. It certainly kills the stereotype of laptops having few ports and being pain to expand.
I don't think it's fair to say the Wallstreet is more fragile than a desktop, in this context. The G3 Series is one of the most robust Macs ever built. It's Achilles heel, are the display lid hinges. However, considering how this Mac is to be used, the lid never needs to be opened. Just connect a VGA monitor and external keyboard to it whenever it needs to be accessed and you'll never have to touch it again. Even using it's built-ins sparingly as for its intended purpose, and you'll likely have no durability issues. I have one Pismo with bad hinges, and it does not stop me from using it just fine. Keep in mind, the PowerBook was designed to take a lot of abuse on the road, more so than any desktop. Consequently, I would argue, that except for design flaws almost any portable is more durable than almost any desktop.
As for using your SE/30, the problem is that napbar thinks the software is PPC ONLY. This means you will not be able to use an SE/30. The only compact I am aware that can be easily updated to a PPC configuration is the Color Classic. This would be my preference in context, but I agree with nap bar, the Wallstreet/PDQ is a great alternative for taking up minimal space.
Granted, there may not be a Wallstreet/PDQ immediately available on eBay today, but as they say ... Patience is am virtue. There were so many sold that it's merely a matter of time. Obviously, many of their original users still find them useful. So I don't count rarity as a serious problem. The same could be said of 128K Macs, which are not necessarily rare in availability, but working ones are usually priced out of the ballpark, forcing one to be patient in order to get a deal.
As for using your SE/30, the problem is that napbar thinks the software is PPC ONLY. This means you will not be able to use an SE/30. The only compact I am aware that can be easily updated to a PPC configuration is the Color Classic. This would be my preference in context, but I agree with nap bar, the Wallstreet/PDQ is a great alternative for taking up minimal space.
Granted, there may not be a Wallstreet/PDQ immediately available on eBay today, but as they say ... Patience is am virtue. There were so many sold that it's merely a matter of time. Obviously, many of their original users still find them useful. So I don't count rarity as a serious problem. The same could be said of 128K Macs, which are not necessarily rare in availability, but working ones are usually priced out of the ballpark, forcing one to be patient in order to get a deal.
JDW,
Pre-Lombard is what you'd be looking at. Lombard followed WallStreet/PDQ, and dropped LocalTalk and Apple Floppy support.
The Rumpus software I'm using on the bridge Mac requires a PowerMac with System 7.5 and Open Transport.
Mac128,
Agreed! My WallStreet sits and is never moved! I leave my screen up, though. I just don't ever close it. No wear and tear.
I'm surprised that you guys are having trouble finding them on eBay. Last year there were tons of them. I think I got mine for $20. I paid more for the Floppy Drive bay!
Pre-Lombard is what you'd be looking at. Lombard followed WallStreet/PDQ, and dropped LocalTalk and Apple Floppy support.
The Rumpus software I'm using on the bridge Mac requires a PowerMac with System 7.5 and Open Transport.
Mac128,
Agreed! My WallStreet sits and is never moved! I leave my screen up, though. I just don't ever close it. No wear and tear.
I'm surprised that you guys are having trouble finding them on eBay. Last year there were tons of them. I think I got mine for $20. I paid more for the Floppy Drive bay!
Napabar and I have been talking via PM, but I now I want to take our private discussion public so as to benefit others who come after and want to know the same things I did.
First of all, I was told that an Ethernet to LocalTalk bridge would be a feasible solution on PPC Macs that lack serial ports for LocalTalk networking. It seems that Asante still sells their AsanteTalk Bridge device too:
http://www.asante.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=16&cat=+AsanteTalk
Now, for those of you who missed it, Napabar posted the following download link to RUMPUS 3.5.6 here:
http://ftp.maxum.com/DownloadPackages/RumpusClassic.sit
Napabar points out that version 3.5.6 of RUMPUS is PPC-only, which means you cannot use a 68k Mac like an SE/30 to be the bridge Mac between say a Mac 512k and an OS 10.7 Lion Intel iMac. However, being curious about the PPC-only version Rumpus, I Googled up this today about a 68k version of Rumpus:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dkFRqjtgEC8J:tfbbs.com/rumpus/R03About.html+rumpus+68k+version&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
It seems that version 1.3 (and earlier, obviously) was 68k & PPC. So I now have a question for Napabar. Did you try version 1.3 on a 68k Mac because you couldn't find 1.3, or because it lacks some functionality necessary to make the connection to the 512ke work properly? The main reason I am thinking about this is because if Rumpus version 1.3 does work, then we could use an SE/30 to do the job of the bridge computer, eliminating the need for a PPC G4 Cube (running OS 9) or the PowerBook G3 (running OS 8.x or 9).
I was also told that the 512ke is the oldest Mac I can use for AppleShare because of the HFS disk requirement. However, the original Mac 512k with 64k ROMs (not the 128k/HFS ROMs of the 512ke and Plus) could use the HD20 INIT to gain access to HFS floppies (including 800k disks) and the HD20 serial hard drive. You cannot boot from an HFS disk on a Mac512 with 64k ROMs even if it has the HD20 INIT (you need an MFS boot floppy), but that limitation wouldn't matter in the AppleShare experiment we are discussing in this thread. So what would prevent a Mac512 with 64k ROMs and the HD20 INIT (and HD20 hard disk and/or 800k external floppy drive) from working in this Rumpus-networked setup?
Thanks.
First of all, I was told that an Ethernet to LocalTalk bridge would be a feasible solution on PPC Macs that lack serial ports for LocalTalk networking. It seems that Asante still sells their AsanteTalk Bridge device too:
http://www.asante.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=16&cat=+AsanteTalk
Now, for those of you who missed it, Napabar posted the following download link to RUMPUS 3.5.6 here:
http://ftp.maxum.com/DownloadPackages/RumpusClassic.sit
Napabar points out that version 3.5.6 of RUMPUS is PPC-only, which means you cannot use a 68k Mac like an SE/30 to be the bridge Mac between say a Mac 512k and an OS 10.7 Lion Intel iMac. However, being curious about the PPC-only version Rumpus, I Googled up this today about a 68k version of Rumpus:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dkFRqjtgEC8J:tfbbs.com/rumpus/R03About.html+rumpus+68k+version&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
It seems that version 1.3 (and earlier, obviously) was 68k & PPC. So I now have a question for Napabar. Did you try version 1.3 on a 68k Mac because you couldn't find 1.3, or because it lacks some functionality necessary to make the connection to the 512ke work properly? The main reason I am thinking about this is because if Rumpus version 1.3 does work, then we could use an SE/30 to do the job of the bridge computer, eliminating the need for a PPC G4 Cube (running OS 9) or the PowerBook G3 (running OS 8.x or 9).
I was also told that the 512ke is the oldest Mac I can use for AppleShare because of the HFS disk requirement. However, the original Mac 512k with 64k ROMs (not the 128k/HFS ROMs of the 512ke and Plus) could use the HD20 INIT to gain access to HFS floppies (including 800k disks) and the HD20 serial hard drive. You cannot boot from an HFS disk on a Mac512 with 64k ROMs even if it has the HD20 INIT (you need an MFS boot floppy), but that limitation wouldn't matter in the AppleShare experiment we are discussing in this thread. So what would prevent a Mac512 with 64k ROMs and the HD20 INIT (and HD20 hard disk and/or 800k external floppy drive) from working in this Rumpus-networked setup?
Thanks.
JDW
Good catch about the older, 68K version of Rumpus. I hope somebody can find a copy!
I only used 3.5.6 because that's all I could find (on Maxum's site), and at the time, my bridge was a PowerMac 6500, so i never needed to get a 68K version.
I would agree in theory that a stock 512K (64K ROM) with the HD20 INIT and a 800K external drive, or the HD20 itself, would work with AppleShare. However, the problem is that the AppleShare software I'm using on the 512Ke, called EasyShare, seems to REQUIRE the 128K ROM or better. I've loaded it up in a 512K (64K ROM) Mini vMac session, and the extension for EasyShare doesn't load. It loads fine in a Mac 512Ke Mini VMac session, and of course, a real Mac 512Ke. So the software (which came out in 1990) seems to assume that you've got the newer ROM.
I don't have a real 64K Mac 512k to test, but would love some who does to confirm this. EasyShare is in my public folder on iDisk, username nilesmitchell
Good catch about the older, 68K version of Rumpus. I hope somebody can find a copy!
I only used 3.5.6 because that's all I could find (on Maxum's site), and at the time, my bridge was a PowerMac 6500, so i never needed to get a 68K version.
I would agree in theory that a stock 512K (64K ROM) with the HD20 INIT and a 800K external drive, or the HD20 itself, would work with AppleShare. However, the problem is that the AppleShare software I'm using on the 512Ke, called EasyShare, seems to REQUIRE the 128K ROM or better. I've loaded it up in a 512K (64K ROM) Mini vMac session, and the extension for EasyShare doesn't load. It loads fine in a Mac 512Ke Mini VMac session, and of course, a real Mac 512Ke. So the software (which came out in 1990) seems to assume that you've got the newer ROM.
I don't have a real 64K Mac 512k to test, but would love some who does to confirm this. EasyShare is in my public folder on iDisk, username nilesmitchell
I Googled up an old discussion that Napabar and Mac128 had about EasyShare and the HD20 INIT:
viewtopic.php?p=135671#p135671
Of course, the result was non-conclusive concerning the HD20 INIT because no one tested it.
I also see what a hard time Napabar had when trying to find EasyShare:
viewtopic.php?p=134525#p134525
It's unfortunate that the version you did find is only a DEMO, which limits you to 10 minutes per session.
But going back to a 68K version of RUMPUS...
I found this article from 10 years ago:
http://www.macmod.com/content/rumpus-20-0
Note that the "Version 1.3" it speaks of was 68k-compatible. Further, I've been able to Google that the last "1.3" version was "Rumpus Pro 1.3.6". (I even found serials/cracks for it and version 1.3.3.) But alas, the actual version 1.3.x software eludes me! But perhaps one of you out there has it, which would solve the problem! :b&w:
viewtopic.php?p=135671#p135671
Of course, the result was non-conclusive concerning the HD20 INIT because no one tested it.
I also see what a hard time Napabar had when trying to find EasyShare:
viewtopic.php?p=134525#p134525
It's unfortunate that the version you did find is only a DEMO, which limits you to 10 minutes per session.
But going back to a 68K version of RUMPUS...
I found this article from 10 years ago:
http://www.macmod.com/content/rumpus-20-0
Note that the "Version 1.3" it speaks of was 68k-compatible. Further, I've been able to Google that the last "1.3" version was "Rumpus Pro 1.3.6". (I even found serials/cracks for it and version 1.3.3.) But alas, the actual version 1.3.x software eludes me! But perhaps one of you out there has it, which would solve the problem! :b&w:
