Is my Macintosh SE's floppy drive working?

[MacSE]

I recently picked up a Macintosh SE for $5. The hard disk was dead, as I expected. I put in a boot disk and turned the computer back on. However, I soon realized I was using a System 1.1 Boot disk, which is not compatible with the SE. I don't have an ADB mouse/keyboard, only a 128k/512k/Plus keyboard and mouse. I tried pulling out the disk (I didn't know about the pinhole by the disk drive when I was doing this) , and it came out. I noticed that a small metal bracket is now in the middle of the floppy drive. Is this normal? I noticed it moves upwards when the mac is turned on. I am having someone make a system 6.0.8 boot disk, and I want to know if the disk drive needs to be repaired before I can use the boot disk. If it's just a "cosmetic" problem, I can still use the drive fine by pushing up the metal piece.

Thanks in advance

 

[unity]

Sounds like you might have broke the gearing or something. The drive should not cycle on power up like you describe unless its "stuck" in a weird position (or wrong cable inside). I would try getting it to the proper position with a pin in the hole as you should have done first and see what happens.

By the way, if the OS is wrong, the Mac should automatically eject the disk and put a flashing floppy with an "X" on it. So if it did not do this, I guess there is a chance the drive was already not working right.

 

[MacSE]

I pushed a paperclip into the hole while the mac was powered off and saw the metal bar lift upwards.

I actually was faster than the mac at realizing the OS was wrong, and just pulled out the disk.

 

[MacSE]

I rebooted the computer and the drive made some noises. It looks normal now. Hopefully it stays that way when I put in the boot disk!

 

[Juror22]

I hope so too, Mac SE's are built like tanks.  Of course it is a 30 year old tank, so a little care should be exercised when pushing, pulling, turning and pressing anything on or into them.

 

[MacSE]

When I received the boot disk in the mail, I put it in and the machine booted off the disk. It displayed a flickering Welcome to Macintosh and remained stuck. I thought the disk drive needed to be cleaned with compressed air, and restarted the computer. The computer tried to eject the floppy and got it only halfway out before making a terrible noise. I noticed it actually booted off the hard drive, but then remained stuck on Welcome to Macintosh, but this time not flickering. Even the manual eject won't work. How should I get the disk out?

 

[jsarchibald]

The first port of call with any of these computers is to disassemble them before powering them on.

I like to remove the logic board and clean it thoroughly with cotton tips and IPA, making sure all of the chips are seated properly, and any excess dust is removed.  Also a great time to bin the PRAM battery, especially if it is a Maxell (generally not seen until the later SE/30 and Classic models), and if it has the soldered Varta battery, they seem to be tanks but you might wish to snip it off.

The other essential piece of maintenance is to remove the floppy drive, thoroughly clean that for dust and dried gooey grease, then relubricate it.  I had no idea what I was doing, but if you follow the instructions on the 68kmla wiki, you'll get there.

The biggest issue with floppy drives is dried grease mixed with dust, so the mechanism just can move.  Trying to force it to work in this condition can can breakages internally, either with gears or motors, so it's just not worth the hassle.  The vast majority of drives that appeared not to work came good after being serviced, only a small percentage needed repair or binning.

The other area for maintenance for compacts is reflowing solder on the analog board due to cold solder joints, capacitors on both the analog and logic boards (not the SE and earlier for the logic board, but definitely SE and Classic onwards), and other assorted issues.  However, just cleaning and relubricating fixes most of what ails you!

 

[MacSE]

The first port of call with any of these computers is to disassemble them before powering them on.

I like to remove the logic board and clean it thoroughly with cotton tips and IPA, making sure all of the chips are seated properly, and any excess dust is removed.  Also a great time to bin the PRAM battery, especially if it is a Maxell (generally not seen until the later SE/30 and Classic models), and if it has the soldered Varta battery, they seem to be tanks but you might wish to snip it off.

The other essential piece of maintenance is to remove the floppy drive, thoroughly clean that for dust and dried gooey grease, then relubricate it.  I had no idea what I was doing, but if you follow the instructions on the 68kmla wiki, you'll get there.

The biggest issue with floppy drives is dried grease mixed with dust, so the mechanism just can move.  Trying to force it to work in this condition can can breakages internally, either with gears or motors, so it's just not worth the hassle.  The vast majority of drives that appeared not to work came good after being serviced, only a small percentage needed repair or binning.

The other area for maintenance for compacts is reflowing solder on the analog board due to cold solder joints, capacitors on both the analog and logic boards (not the SE and earlier for the logic board, but definitely SE and Classic onwards), and other assorted issues.  However, just cleaning and relubricating fixes most of what ails you!

I managed to get the floppy out of the floppy drive with tweezers. I plan on disassembling the unit and checking the disk drive for any broken gears and lubricating it. What type of Torx screwdriver do I need to open the screws behind the top handle? I have a T10 (?) that opens the two screws near the bottom, but it's not long enough to reach the ones under the handle. I also plan on doing everything else you mentioned above. (These compact macs sure are harder to disassemble than the G3 iMacs.) Also, I found out that the old hard drive does boot up to the "Welcome to Macintosh", but doesn't go any further. I plan to replace it with a SCSI2SD someday, but for now I'll use a boot disk floppy. I still can't believe I picked this up for $5!

Thanks

 

[jsarchibald]

Hmm, tweezers?  I don't like the sound of that!

You shouldn't ever have to force anything with these systems, but if you do, you are likely to encounter damage.

All of the screws are the same type, you either need to buy one of the long handled torx screwdrivers, or find a kit that has the extension bar to allow you to reach, but it has to be thin or it won't fit.  I've been making do with a hacked together version for years, using blutack to hold it all together, but a recent conquest last month came with one from back in the day!  Couldn't believe my luck.

Once you figure out how these compacts work, they're pretty easy to take apart.  4 screws in the back (or 5 in the case of 128K/512K/Plus), bucket off, remove the power cabling from the logic board, don't forget the one for sound on the SE, and then the board is out.  4 screws holding the floppy drive bracket in place, then a further 4 to remove the floppy drive for servicing.  While you are there, you can upgrade RAM, swap out the hard drive, add a SCSI2SD, etc.  Just be methodical when removing parts, I lay them out in an egg holder from the old fridge so I remember in what order I removed them and where they belong.

The earlier compacts are even easier, as there is no hard drive and associated cables, or the speaker cable, and the power supply is part of the analog board.  The SE is heavier, but it does come with the ability to swap over a bad PSU and obviously have a hard drive connected.

 

[MacSE]

Thanks! I have been wondering for a while about how to take these compact macs apart for a while. My SE must be unusual, because the bottom screws seem to open with a T10 x 80 torx screwdriver (whatever that is), while the two under the handle seem to be larger. One on the left is missing, and the one on the right, which I can barely see, seems to have a silver point in the middle. The hardware store sells long-handled thin torx screwdrivers from size T10 to T15. I did watch a video on restoration and complete disassembly of a Macintosh SE, but mine has different screw sizes and some different problems. I still cant believe I picked it up for $5!

(Sorry for all the questions, I don't have a lot of experience with compact macs, mostly Commodore and Atari and G3 macs. I'm beginning to really like the Compact Macs a lot, though.)

 

[jsarchibald]

The visible ones tend to be black, and the hidden ones tend to be silver, but they are all the same size (T10 from memory).

 

[Compgeke]

They're all T15 but a T10 usually will open them as well.

 

[MacSE]

I was curious why my T10 screwdriver could open them, as I thought they were all T15. The store sells them all in a "set" of T10 through T15. How long does the screwdriver need to be? 

Also, what is probably wrong with the floppy drive? I think I broke a gear, but I'm not sure.

 

[ScutBoy]

Hmm, tweezers?  I don't like the sound of that!

C'mon - real mean use needle-nose pliers

 

[Themk]

When I had the flickering "welcome to macintosh" screen on my SE, it was because of a read error with the floppy drive. Your heads are probably dirty, as were the case with mine. You should also re-lubricate the drive too while you have it apart.

 

[MacSE]

When I had the flickering "welcome to macintosh" screen on my SE, it was because of a read error with the floppy drive. Your heads are probably dirty, as were the case with mine. You should also re-lubricate the drive too while you have it apart.

Thanks. I thought it as because of the heads being dirty too. It took me forever to find a store in town that sells a T15 torx screwdriver long enough, but I eventually found one, I'll probably be getting it today and disassembling it today or tomorrow.

 

[Johnnya101]

Be careful taking stuff out! A few here have broken the CRT... just be extremely careful, and act like your working with something that's a million dollars.

 

[Themk]

Just so you know, with the SE and the SE/30, you need to remove the logic board in order to access the screws that hold the floppy and HDD carrier in the machine. Be REALLY REALLY careful around the CRT's neck, or you can break it.

 

[techknight]

C'mon - real mean use needle-nose pliers

And better men use hammers!