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Interest Check: A 'walled-garden' service

flexo

flexo

6502
I've been thinking about this idea for a while - in fact I had written quite a lot of code for it - but I want to make sure there is at least some interest before I spend even more time and effort on it.

Would you be interested in a 'walled-garden' AOL/eWorld/CompuServe/Prodigy/etc. like service?
  1. It would run on Mac OS 6.x - 9.x
  2. It would have communication / community features like:
    1. Chatrooms
    2. IM
    3. e-Mail (perhaps internal only, though - not sure yet)
    4. Message Boards
  3. Have services you can use cross-platform, like:
    1. Online Drive (Web + client access)
    2. Web e-Mail
  4. Have plenty of API-provided content like:
    1. Weather
    2. Stocks
    3. Currency Exchange Rates
    4. News (headlines only, maybe?)
    5. Recipes
    6. Whatever else I can find!
  5. Have interactive features like:
    1. Games (singleplayer w/ leaderboards)
      1. Of course, think Tetris/Backgammon/Reversi, not Fortnite :D
    2. Member profiles / "sites"
    3. Polls
  6. Perhaps some kind of a Twitter clone for fun.
  7. We could also have 'events' and specific time and dates too.
Basically, think AOL/eWorld/CompuServe, written using Clapkit.
The goal is "do most some of what you can do on the web using a modern computer, except banking and videos"

The EC2/RDS/SMS instances and all those APIs would cost a lot of money so it would probably cost ~$2-4/mo, though.

I don't think we can create polls anymore - so please vote here - and let me know what you think!
 
Oh and before anyone asks "why not just create a HTML 2.x website" - it honestly is easier to write this than to deal with that if you want the level of interactivity and performance I want. (I've tried, old browsers are way worse than you could remember, believe me.)
 
It would be really cool, but how many people would use it to make it really worth while? The eager clientele would be limited.
 
The term "walled-garden" was an immediate turn off for me

I think the only useful sect of this scheme would be multiplayer games, you could do everything else on a Unixen box with the Macintosh just acting as a terminal.
 
luRaichu said:
The term "walled-garden" was an immediate turn off for me
Click to expand...
I get that - but that's to prevent 'non-content content'.. To be honest, nothing annoys me more than going to any 'small-web' service, see all the usernames/URLs just to realize 90% of them are "I'm just setting this up to grab the URL, I'll add content later (Last Modified: 2 years ago)" - plus I don't have the means to moderate everything and would like to keep things PG-13 at most.
 
It might not be feasible with what you have in mind, but maybe it would gain a wider audience if it could run on modern platforms?

c
 
CC_333 said:
It might not be feasible with what you have in mind, but maybe it would gain a wider audience if it could run on modern platforms?

c
Click to expand...
I guess a web-based interface can be done until Clapkit is at least Carbonized.

Durosity said:
It would be cool... but ultimately I'm trying to think what the ultimate benefit would be?
Click to expand...
I was thinking it might be good for those:
  • who want an ad-and-AI-free, curated content and a small community
  • want a use for an old Mac that's collecting dust (why not read the news and chat on that today instead of your phone?)
  • want to be online during a RetroChallenge :D
 
flexo said:
I guess a web-based interface can be done until Clapkit is at least Carbonized.<snip>
Click to expand...
Hmm. The way this thread is going feels a bit like you've got a massive, exciting vision and the response is more lukewarm than you kinda expected.

I suspect this is partly or mostly because although you've thought a lot about it (and already put a lot of effort in), it only partially overlaps with other people's visions for a retro-Mac online experience. For example, I'm pretty sure I was reading about a resurgence for Gopher on Hackaday (or OSNews) fairly recently and I can see the appeal for that. Also, I've been browsing comp.os.sun in 1989 when the SparcStation 1 was introduced. It's really refreshing just to read plain-text conversations in a simple hierarchical style.

And sometimes I think, "yeah, it'd be fun to have a version of the 68KMLA in a classic Usenet form so that a Mac with sufficient CPU for (elliptic curve) SLL would be usable." And here we're talking about maybe a 33MHz '030 and up. I mean, people were interacting with that, using Sun 3's or Vaxes, maybe even 16MHz '386 systems at the time: laughably puny machines (I don't laugh, I think they're great!).

But I don't think even for the whole of the 68KMLA, which explicitly is about 68K Macs, is a big enough user-base to provide a Usenet style front-end.

I figure that if the idea does have legs, it may be best to start with a small part of the idea, the part that has the biggest overlap with the potential user-base. Then if it makes progress and grows, add in more of the features, step by step. Anyway, all the best!
 
Snial said:
Hmm. The way this thread is going feels a bit like you've got a massive, exciting vision and the response is more lukewarm than you kinda expected.
Click to expand...
Yep! 😅

Snial said:
I suspect this is partly or mostly because although you've thought a lot about it (and already put a lot of effort in), it only partially overlaps with other people's visions for a retro-Mac online experience.
Click to expand...
I think you have a great point here - not only in terms of technology (graphical? plaintext only?) but perhaps even in terms of content too (do you want Mac-only – or at least Mac-focused – content or something more general?) or even the platform (as @luRaichu asked before you)

My theory is that there is this infinite loop of "lack of content causing lack of viewership causing a lack of content" when it comes to a lot of "Small/Indie Web" projects. You log in to see a brand new, but empty town, so you just try to get the most attractive piece of land (shortest username, cleverest 'domain', etc) and leave, thinking you'll back once other people start using it. The problem is, everyone else does the same, so everyone waits for everyone else. A few weeks later, it turns into a ghost town.

I mean, I post here because I read things here and I know other do too - but if I were to log in here and see that the last topic was created 7 months ago and I was the only person logged in, I wouldn't be posting here either. I would just leave, probably never to come back.

This is why I want a walled-garden environment with constantly updated content. The more you log in, the more you are likely to post, which in turn would cause others to post.

I might be completely wrong.
 
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I don't understand what would make this different from any other indie WWW construct. You point to tailspins caused by a lack of "content" but don't elaborate what makes your proposal stand apart and where you're gonna get free content. If I really want "an ad-and-AI-free, curated, small" social network I can go to some instance on the fediverse or chat on IRC and do easily do both on a vintage computer. And not be bound by the limitations of one central network like yours but pick and choose smaller networks I like while being able to communicate between them. I feel like your proposed service is a solution in search for a problem
 
I think it's clear this project is not of any interest to you, which is completely fine. =) What you’re looking for already seems to exist as you've said.
 
Like others have said earlier what's the point of such a niche network for one specific brand of old computer?
I'm not saying you shouldn't go for it but I wouldn't bother. At least you'll learn something
 
I feel like there are already so many platforms competing for people's attention these days that it's hard to get someone to sit down and put a meaningful use to something limited to running on not just old computers, but a very specific brand and era of old computers.

We do already have working solutions for chat in the form of IRC, and file sharing/chat/etc with Hotline. Both of which I can still access from a modern computer.
There are also at least two individual projects running an alternate DNS separated from the rest of the internet with the concept being that users can use old computers and old browsers and even vintage ICQ/AIM clients much like the old days. It's really cool, but still has the issue of needing users, most of whom already have lives and day jobs outside of vintage computing.

Personally, I don't have the space for a vintage computer to be set up 24/7. I end up putting things away when I switch between various projects, so it's pretty convenient to be able to access Hotline and forums and stuff from my modern PC or whatever else.

I don't mean to hold you back and you are the master of your own destiny, but know that this is your passion project and you'll likely be the prime mover here. Many good things were brought about purely by one person's determination though, so don't take that the wrong way.
 
joshc said:
Would it actually have this, in reality, though? Every thing that is attempted like this struggles with the content part.
Click to expand...
If we can divide content to "exclusive" and "non-exclusive":
  1. Non-Exclusive is pretty much possible - weather from NOAA, news from NewsAPI, maybe some flight information via AviationStack. Would be updated 24/7 - only thing stopping that is cost.
  2. Exclusive-content – services, games, etc. - perhaps weekly?
But I hear y'all - perhaps I can re-work the technology part of the project so it's open - perhaps something more akin to Hotline but for hypertext instead of file-sharing.
 
Hey, I'm working on something pretty much identical to this right now. My friend came across this post and referred me here. Reach out to me, I'd love to talk more in-depth about it and what I'm working on. You've got something here :)
 
Paging @MarisaG -- the proposals here are pretty similar to what already exists, except MarisaG has used existing platforms to build things out. Might be worth a discussion between the three of you though.
 
I don't get it. What does it do/offer that can't be done using existing ways?

Snial said:
But I don't think even for the whole of the 68KMLA, which explicitly is about 68K Macs, is a big enough user-base to provide a Usenet style front-end.
Click to expand...
This is the thing, where is the user base coming from for it?

flexo said:
perhaps something more akin to Hotline but for hypertext instead of file-sharing
Click to expand...
That's called the www. :P

Sorry to be a party-pooper, but it seems you're trying to recreate things that exist, in a less accessible way?
 
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