Backup and Restore Software for System 6.0.8

[dmetzcher]

I'm looking for a backup & restore solution for System 6.0.8. I've got a Macintosh SE (4MB memory, 40MB hard drive, SuperDrive floppy, attached 100MB Zip Drive) and I'd like to know if there is something that will back the entire contents of the hard disk (hidden files included) up to a Zip Drive. Ultimately, I'd like the software to be capable of restoring from the Zip Disk, so that a total loss of my hard drive would require me to install a new one, format/initialize it, and... perhaps boot from a floppy with the restore software on it and have it copy everything back (bit-by-bit, if possible) from the Zip Disk to the new hard drive.

Short version: I'd like to know if something like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper for Mac OS X exists for System 6.

I've read that there are problems with simply dragging the hard drive onto the Zip Drive on the desktop, because restoring the hidden files when copying everything back manually isn't possible, and missing those hidden files can cause issues with some extensions. (Is this true?)

Forgive my ignorance. I've never used System 6 and was never responsible for backing anything up when I did use System 7 and 8 many years ago, so I have no idea how to go about doing this. I do know that I've spent a little time getting to know System 6, installing software, etc, and I'd hate to start over or spend a lot of time recovering if this 20-year old hard drive fails on me (I have a backup 40MB drive waiting to replace it, if it does).

Any help that can be provided would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

(I searched the forums and couldn't find very much for [backup "system 6"] or ["back up" "system 6"]. I tried several other similar word combinations as well.)

 

[spiceyokooko]

Not sure I can answer your question specifically but I can tell you what I've always used for backups on Mac OS and have always been very happy with what it does. Retrospect backup software has been around since the mid 80's and at one point probably had the market share of Apple based backup products. It would certainly do what you're asking, but I'm not sure whether 1/ it backs up invisible files, I'd have to check one of my own manuals for it, and 2/ I'm not sure they did a version that would work on System 6.

However, knowing how good the software is, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it did backup invisible files and did have a version that worked on System 6.x. It is a commercial product and would therefore need to be purchased, probably through something like eBay if you can find the right version number. I certainly know that version 3.0 came out in the mid 90s so you'd probably need to be looking for versions 1.0 - 2.0 for compatibility with 6. I will check on version compatibility for version 3.0 though.

It's well worth doing some research into whether the early versions do work with System 6 because it's ideal for what you want to do. With luck someone here may know the answers to those two questions.

I don't know of any shareware programs that would do the same job.

I do have a copy of the backup utility that comes with the very early Apple Tape Backup 40SC and that certainly works on System 6, but I think that is machine specific and will only work with that Tape Drive.

 

[Charlieman]

A simple Finder copy will capture most invisible files -- if you copy a container (folder/disk icon), Finder copies the contents. Exceptions might be the desktop files so you would lose application/file type associations if that was the case. However during the 25+ years that I have been backing up drives in this way (just dump HD contents onto a server or portable drive), I've never hit a serious problem.

Or StuffIt. Again, you will probably lose the desktop files but you can always back them up separately.

SunTAR was an early backup utility that used low level disk access to copy disks. Mirrors of the old Info-Mac and SUMEX archives should throw up alternatives.

 

[spiceyokooko]

I can confirm that Retrospect (version 3.0) does indeed copy invisible files as I checked on it today. However, I also found out that version 3.0 (1995) is OS 7.0 onwards only, but I also found a copy of version 2.0 (1993-94) but was unable to find any system information for it.

If it does turn out version 2.0 is compatible with System 6.x you're more than welcome to it, it's the original disks, but no manual, although I do have some Retrospect manuals somewhere. When I get time I'll load it onto one of my machines running system 6 (the fx is at the moment) and see if it works, I'll report back.

 

[dmetzcher]

spiceyokooko & Charlieman: Thank you for your replies.

spiceyokooko:

If it does turn out version 2.0 is compatible with System 6.x you're more than welcome to it, it's the original disks, but no manual, although I do have some Retrospect manuals somewhere. When I get time I'll load it onto one of my machines running system 6 (the fx is at the moment) and see if it works, I'll report back.

Thank you very much for the offer. I really appreciate it. I contacted Retrospect, however, and they said the following.

Retrospect Support Team:

I am sorry, those old versions of Retrospect are not available. Version 2 wasn't even compatible with 6.0.8. We do not have any software available for this configuration.

So, it looks like version 2 won't work on System 6. They didn't say whether version 1 would work, but I imagine it's going to be nearly impossible to find a copy of it to try.

Charlieman:

A simple Finder copy will capture most invisible files -- if you copy a container (folder/disk icon), Finder copies the contents.

I just want to make sure that I understand...

If I drag the hard disk from the desktop to the Zip Drive, it creates a folder (with a name identical to the name of the hard disk -- in my case, "Macintosh HD") on the Zip Disk. Assuming that I replace the hard drive later, I will only need to copy the folders inside the "Macintosh HD" folder (which includes "System" and several folders organized by application type, like "Utilities", "Games", "Productivity", etc) on the Zip Disk back to the root of the new "Macintosh HD" drive on the desktop in order to get everything back to normal? I thought that maybe there were some invisible files or folders at the root of the "Macintosh HD" drive that would be missed when copying things back.

Would doing it this way preserve the settings of the various extensions and apps that I've installed? Has this been your experience when restoring to a new drive in the past?

I read a comment elsewhere that says one can simply use Disk Copy to create a disk image from a folder, but Disk Copy 4.2 (the version I have installed) doesn't seem to have this option, so I'm guessing that it was a later version that was being discussed. That would be a nice way to make a quick backup once in a while, as I don't need an automated solution or something that only backs up changes since the last backup, just something simple like dragging the hard disk to a Zip Drive or making a disk image of the whole thing, if either of those solutions are sufficient for backing everything up.

Is there any way to actually view hidden folders, if I were curious and wanted to see them?

 

[Charlieman]

dmetzacher:

I thought that maybe there were some invisible files or folders at the root of the "Macintosh HD" drive that would be missed when copying things back.

Yes, you will lose the desktop files which apply file type associations. For a big disk with a varied application set (a Quadra or PowerMac used as primary work computer), this would be painful but not critical. For a small disk and a modest configuration, you may not even notice any difference.

Unix-like systems use hidden files for commonplace functions (eg .profile). That is not the case for classic Mac OS which only uses hidden files for super-system functionality. A few applications use hidden files for settings but these will be nested away in the System Folder or application directories and any file copier (including the Finder) will capture them.

If you want to look for hidden files, there are a bazillion utilities. My favourite for System 6 would be DiskTop (commercial). ResEdit can browse a disk to view them but it is not a tool that I would recommend.

 

[trag]

Dantz sold some other backup software at the same time as Retrospect 2.0, which was more oriented toward the single user. It was something like FileSafe, or maybe it had the word Disk in the name. However, it may have been designed to copy to a big pile of floppy disks. I can't remember any more.

We probably ought to (in all that spare time we have) start an encyclopedia of old Mac software, sort of like Version Tracker ought to be, going all the way back through the old versions.

Wikipedia to the rescue. DiskFit. If you can find an old version of DiskFit, that might do what you want.

Dawbllaaaa. The Wikipedia entry for Retrospect is pathetic. I could swear that it used to be better. Do companies edit their own entries to remove useful information?

The second paragraph here contains some useful information:

http://www.macworld.com/article/1166085/retrospects_long_and_twisted_road.html

 

[Scott Baret]

For invisible files, I always used DiskTop. I'm not sure how it was initially sold, but it was bundled with copies of Mac Secrets, 2nd Edition. (The book is a must-have for any Mac enthusiast and the software collection accompanying it is also quite good; DiskTop is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of selection on those three floppies).

DiskTop is a DA and a worthy Finder replacement. Since you're using System 6, it is especially handy for those times when you need to manage files without MultiFinder turned on. Invisible files are displayable.