Asanté 10T Mini EN/SC Media Access Control (MAC) Address?

[klcarrie]

Hi all,

I am interested to know how to determine the MAC address for an Asante 10T Mini EN/SC.

I am currently trying this device on a Powerbook 145 with a my Plus' HD40 external drive attached in the SCSI chain. My Powerbook 145 is running System 7.1. I have installed MacTCP 2.0.6 and Ethertalk Alternative.

I am trying to suss-out a problem that the EN/SC does not return any packets when pinged at 192.168.1.100, nor does the router at 192.168.1.1 return any packets when the PB145 pings out.

Anyhow, Lets start with determining the MAC address.

The following describes how to determine the MAC address of internal ethernet cards:

http://www-dcn.fnal.gov/DCG-Docs/mac/mactcp.html

but does this apply to external SCSI to Ethernet devices as well?

More questions later.

K [?]

 

[Leografix]

but does this apply to external SCSI to Ethernet devices as well?

Simple question, simple answer: no. As far as I remember those Asante adapters offered two possibilities to determine the MAC adress. On most adapter cases a little bar code sticker showed a combination of letters and numbers that represented the MAC adress. The other one - but here I might be wrong! - was to open the AppleTalk zones panel. The combinations of letters and numbers there was identical with the MAC adress.

If I find some time I can look up my own adapter as long as I connected my 145b to the local network with such an Asante adapter.

Just one little hint besides this: older Macs with integrated ethernet functionality or fitted with any ethernet transceiver / ethernet SCSI bridge do not work together with autosensing 10/100/1000 MBps hubs, switches and routers very well. Consider to get yourself a 10 MBps hub (no switch and not faster than 10 MBps)!

J

 

[klcarrie]

Leographix (J) wrote:

"Consider to get yourself a 10 MBps hub (no switch and not faster than 10 MBps)!"

I have one. An old Lynksys 5 port hub.

"On most adapter cases a little bar code sticker showed a combination of letters and numbers that represented the MAC adress."

Ultimately my router is an Apple Airport Extreme. On the back of the Mini EN/SC are two identifiers: 1) "FCC ID" 2) a product serial number/barcode. Neither of the two identifiers matches what the Airport Extreme expects as a MAC address. In each case there are not enough characters to fill the expected MAC address.

"The other one - but here I might be wrong! - was to open the AppleTalk zones panel. The combinations of letters and numbers there was identical with the MAC adress."

I am unsuccessful in getting any information from Appletalk. When cliking the already active 'Ethernet Alternative' tab under the networking control panel I am greeted by something like 'you cannot select a network zone because no router is available.'

Interesting for me would be to know what operating system and extensions you are using to connect your pb180.

I have tested this system on three physical networks with no avail.

Interestingly I do see network activity traveling through the 10 Base-T hub when pinging 192.168.1.1 from 192.168.1.100 (pb145) and when I ping the pb145 from .200 or .199 (other computes on my network). LEDs light up, there are systemic 'collisions', but 0 pakets returned %100 packet loss.

So, I am not so certain that the answer is that simple.

I have also contacted Asanté with the question... maybe they can help.

Thanks though for your attention to the matter J. I do appreciate it.

Any other opinions?

 

[klcarrie]

couple of errors in my last post

1) pb180 should be 145b (its late and I'm really tired).

2) more of a question...

Where should the 10 base-t hub reside? Just downstream of the modem (thus the whole network would run at no more that 10 base-t), or downstream of the Airport Extreme Router (thus forcing any traffic that goes through the Lynksis Hub to only 10 base-t, but allowing other traffic parallel to the hub to flow at their own rates)?

K

 

[Leografix]

Thanks though for your attention to the matter J. I do appreciate it.

No need for "Thank You"s as this board it meant for help like this ;-)

Where should the 10 base-t hub reside?

Let me describe it in words:

Powerbook < Ethernet cable > 10 MBit Hub ...

now it depends if there is a switch (10/100MBit autosensing) or just the router. If there is an additional switch (which I recommend!) it would follow up after the three dots like this:

... Switch Router

in all other cases (like no additional switch) it would be:

... router

Why the additional autosensing switch?

The switch should be able to part 10Mbit network parts from 100Mbit network parts,so the router won´t have to cut itself down.

...networking control panel I am greeted by something like 'you cannot select a network zone because no router is available.'

This is no wonder and not Your fault. Within this context "router" does not stand for Your physically connected Airport Extreme router but for a dedicated (mostly software driven) "AppleTalk router" which provides "AppleTalk zones".

I´m firing up my PB145b now, I will see what I can do for You.

J

 

[Leografix]

I´m using Mac OS 7.5.5 - thanks to a RAM upgrade I´m quite comfortable with that OS on the PB 145b.

Now the solution...

I´m supposing You are using MacTCP (control panel) and NOT TCP/IP that came with 7.5.3... In this case the solution to find the MAC adress of Your adapter is very simple: open the "MacTCP" control panel. At least two icons should appear (if the Asante software is installed): "LocalTalk" and "Ethernet built in" (or similar, I´m using a german OS...). Now hold the "Option" key on Your keyboard an click the "Ethernet built in" once. Below that icon there should now appear the MAC adress. Remember: don´t forget to put a ":" between every two numbers/letters ;-)

J

 

[klcarrie]

Would the switch described below be suitable?

http://edmonton.en.craigslist.ca/sys/831318465.html

Also,

your last post confirmed the my original question. that holding the option key down when clicking "built in ethernet" would generate the MAC address.

"This is no wonder and not Your fault. Within this context "router" does not stand for Your physically connected Airport Extreme router but for a dedicated (mostly software driven) "AppleTalk router" which provides "AppleTalk zones"."

An Appletalk router... Could my soon to be up and running ethernet ready Performa (LC) 475 act as that router?

K

 

[Leografix]

Would the switch described below be suitable? http://edmonton.en.craigslist.ca/sys/831318465.html

Will do very well, I´m using three of that kind without any problems.

your last post confirmed the my original question. that holding the option key down when clicking "built in ethernet" would generate the MAC address.

Well, not to 100%. Especially older Macs (maybe not the PowerBooks) tend to drop that functionality in accordance to their type of ethernet controller, SCSI controller or whatever. For example: my Plus with an Asante EN/SC does not show the MAC adress by this procedure while the SE with the same OS, MacTCP and the same adapter shows the MAC adress.

An Appletalk router... Could my soon to be up and running ethernet ready Performa (LC) 475 act as that router?

Any Mac fitted with the right software can act as an AppleTalk seed router. But have this in mind: a Performa 475 only provides 10Mbit which might slow down Macs that utilize the 100Mbit transfer rates. While this isn´t tragic it can slow down local network connections notably.

J

 

[klcarrie]

Well, not to 100%. Especially older Macs (maybe not the PowerBooks) tend to drop that functionality in accordance to their type of ethernet controller, SCSI controller or whatever. For example: my Plus with an Asante EN/SC does not show the MAC adress by this procedure while the SE with the same OS, MacTCP and the same adapter shows the MAC adress.

I am under the assumption that the MAC address is a hardware encoded address. I only have 1 EN/SC right now and they're now geting quite expensive to buy on ebay. So If it is a hardware encoded address, it would not change... Just write the address down for future use...

An Appletalk router... Could my soon to be up and running ethernet ready Performa (LC) 475 act as that router?

Any Mac fitted with the right software can act as an AppleTalk seed router. But have this in mind: a Performa 475 only provides 10Mbit which might slow down Macs that utilize the 100Mbit transfer rates. While this isn´t tragic it can slow down local network connections notably.

J

I have a Plus, SE, PB145, and theoretically a G3Bronze that all could use the EN/SC. The G3 however is ethernet ready and runs on a cable directly fitted to my Airport Extreme at 100 base-T. It is normally running os x 10.3.9 so I don't think it can be the appletalk router. but that's a diversion.

I hope to get a response from the craigslist poster... otherwise it's off to the electronics shop...

Thanks again,

K

 

[equill]

... I am under the assumption that the MAC address is a hardware encoded address. I only have 1 EN/SC right now and they're now geting quite expensive to buy on ebay. So If it is a hardware encoded address, it would not change... Just write the address down for future use...

And you are spot-on there. It is unique to a device, which is why it includes at least six octets. When there is an ASP within an OS/System, ASP quotes it. In Mac OS X it is called both ethernet address (in System Preferences/Network/Ethernet) and MAC address (in System Profiler/Network).

Some manufacturers, including Asanté, used three common octets (eg, 00:00:94:nn:nn:nn in Asanté's case) for their production. The lateness in the manufacturing process of assignation of a MAC number is sometimes shown by manuscript addition of the device-specific octets on the MAC label.

I am interested to know how to determine the MAC address for an Asante 10T Mini EN/SC ...

Misfortune aside, it should be attached to the outside of the device. However, an IP address, which is mutable, is a far more convenient way of addressing a device. If you have a Mini EN/SC, you have a fixed SCSI ID=6 built into the device, in the same way as the Desktop EN/SC, so no other SCSI (such as the HDD) device may also use ID=6. The considerably larger Asanté EN/SC adapters with Thick/Thin/UTP have SCSI ID selector switches 0-7. I use both desktop kinds for my Classic and Classic II Macs (as expansion-challenged machines), with no difficulties of recognition between them and a (Netgear) 10Base-T hub, which is in turn downstream from a 10/100Base-T switch.

What activity do the LEDs of the EN/SC show? Apart from a steady PWR LED, the LI (Link) LED should stabilize also if there is a successful handshake.

Remember, you have multiplied your peril by mixing SCSI voodoo with ethernet voodoo. If you daisy-chain the external HDD and the EN/SC, you will have difficulty in having the adapter recognized if the HDD also retains its SCSI termination. The EN/SC has non-removable termination, and therefore must be the physically last device in the external daisy-chain. There is the further complication that early PBs lacked SCSI termination at the host-controller end, and sanity is often restored to the user only when a passthrough terminator is connected to the PB before any SCSI devices. The Mini EN/SC probably has this termination built into its connector specially. How then are you connecting the HDD to the EN/SC, which comes with the necessary HDI-30 connection inbuilt? Try your ethernet connection with only the EN/SC attached to the PB. That way you can establish that an ethernet connection is possible, and even then you may run into trouble with the inbuilt (both sides) termination of the Mini EN/SC if you attempt again to daisy-chain the HDD to the EN/SC.

de

 

[klcarrie]

Misfortune aside, it should be attached to the outside of the device. However, an IP address, which is mutable, is a far more convenient way of addressing a device. If you have a Mini EN/SC, you have a fixed SCSI ID=6 built into the device, in the same way as the Desktop EN/SC, so no other SCSI (such as the HDD) device may also use ID=6. The considerably larger Asanté EN/SC adapters with Thick/Thin/UTP have SCSI ID selector switches 0-7. I use both desktop kinds for my Classic and Classic II Macs (as expansion-challenged machines), with no difficulties of recognition between them and a (Netgear) 10Base-T hub, which is in turn downstream from a 10/100Base-T switch.

I think the absence of a 10/100/and/or1000Base-T switch may be causing the issue, as Leographix already stated. I have removed the HD40 from the SCSI Chain.

Mini EN/SC 10T Termination may be turned on or off. It is ambiguous. The back side of the EN/SC has a hole with 2 dip switches. Link integrity is turned to on (the white dip switch points towards the SCSI end of the box). Integrity is indicated by the word "on" enscribed on the box. Termination (without any other devices in the SCSI chain: as recommended) points also towards the SCSI side of the box.

Now here's the confusion. On the cover this can be interpreted as "on" (The Termination LED is also lit). However, when one looks inside at the dip switch, the dip switch is pointed away from an "ON" inscribed in white.

What activity do the LEDs of the EN/SC show? Apart from a steady PWR LED, the LI (Link) LED should stabilize also if there is a successful handshake.

The lights on the topside of the box indicate the following:

Power: Lit (on);

Network Activity: Flashes (activity) when the Powerbook 145 (192.168.1.100) pings the airport extreme router gateway address (192.168.1.1) (as an aside my Linksys "ew5hub" shows link and Act/Rx activity on both the port and uplink. a collision occurs when ping is initiated from the PB145... conversely when 192.168.1.200, my MBPro tries to ping 192.168.1.100, the PB145, there is link ad Act/Rx activity to the uplink side of the Hub, but no Act/Rx activity to the port connected to the cable connecting to the EN/SC);

Link Integrity: Lit (on);

Link Disable: Blank (off);

SCSI Termination: Lit (on?).

Remember, you have multiplied your peril by mixing SCSI voodoo with ethernet voodoo. If you daisy-chain the external HDD and the EN/SC, you will have difficulty in having the adapter recognized if the HDD also retains its SCSI termination.

I'll save this configuration for when I'm trying to get the plus up and running over MacTCP....

The EN/SC has non-removable termination, and therefore must be the physically last device in the external daisy-chain.

I thought I've seen several examples with a pass through cable for the Mini EN/SC 10T? Don't the Dip Switches control termination?

There is the further complication that early PBs lacked SCSI termination at the host-controller end, and sanity is often restored to the user only when a passthrough terminator is connected to the PB before any SCSI devices. The Mini EN/SC probably has this termination built into its connector specially. How then are you connecting the HDD to the EN/SC, which comes with the necessary HDI-30 connection inbuilt?

Lets save this question for my Plus...

Try your ethernet connection with only the EN/SC attached to the PB.

Done

That way you can establish that an ethernet connection is possible,

Still, no dice. I likely still need the switch between the Airport Extreme and my ew5hub.

and even then you may run into trouble with the inbuilt (both sides) termination of the Mini EN/SC if you attempt again to daisy-chain the HDD to the EN/SC.

Will try not to do that... until for the plus.

Next Question...

Should the MacTCP Gateway address be "192.168.1.1" or the address allocated by my ISP (eg. 96.64.x.x)?

K

 

[klcarrie]

Update.

I have purchased a Dlink 10/100/1000Base-T Switch. It is downstream from the Airport Extreme Router (192.168.1.1) and upstream from the Linksys ew5hub hub.

I still have no luck.

 

[Leografix]

Well, this is going to be "voodoo" as equill already stated.

Let´s begin with that SCSI troubles that might appear. You stated that the EN/SC has the ability to be terminated or not. The next this is the fact that a Macintosh Plus does not utilize an internal hard disk so in order to use a hard disk with a Mac OS You will have to connect two SCSI devices to Your Plus - although Asante doesn´t recommend this.

Well, there are some options but let us state some basics first. Old Macs like the Plus or 1xx Powerbooks are slightly different regarding their SCSI handling.

SCSI IDs

Internal (NOT external) hard disks in older Macs should (...!...) always have the SCSI ID "0". You aren´t forced to use "0" but it makes connection of external devices a bit easier ;-) Now, for the external devices it officially doesn´t matter in which order the other IDs do appear. Example:

Mac Plus .

BUT: me in personal has noticed that especially with early Macs it can solve lots (!) of problems if You take care of the ID´s order. Regarding the already mentioned example it would look like this:

Mac Plus .

Note that I wrote "can solve problems"! While others didn´t face such problems I could solve problems sometimes only this way. Second note on SCSI IDs with older Macs: try to only use IDs up to the maximum number of "3". Regarding the already mentioned example it would result in a change of SCSI IDs like this:

Mac Plus .

I noticed from my own experience that my Mac Plus behaved strange when IDs larger than "3" were used while later Macs like the SE/30 didn´t bother about it very much. I think it depends on the SCSI controller´s type but I´m not sure in this.

Termination

It makes a difference if a hard disk is built in or not. If a hard disk is built in then the Mac terminates the INTERNAL (!) connection on it´s own which results a slightly different EXTERNAL (!) termination. Now, this results two sceneries: as the Plus doesn´t have an internal hard disk he handles the termination different from a PowerBook as these mostly have a hard disk built in. So if we are looking on Your EN/SC mini along with a Mac Plus we will have to handle the Termination a bit different as it would look like with a PowerBook 1xx. Remember this: depending on the kind of device You are connecting there are many ways how to terminate that device. While some can be "jumpered" internally others need to hook up an active termination adapter block on the outside of their case.

I´m assuming that the termination of Your EN/SC mini is a) an "active" one and B) an "internal" one as You are just throwing a switch. As already noted Your EN/SC mini always utilizes the SCSI ID "6" (which might work with a PowerBook but not necessarily with the Mac Plus) so You don´t have much choice on terminating and "ID"ing Your hard disk which is supposed to be connected externally to Your Mac Plus. With this setup TRIPPLE-CHECK (!) the following:

terminate the EN/SC and connect it as the physically LAST device within the external SCSI chain. Between the EN/SC and the Mac Plus there goes Your hard disk. It has to have a LOWER ID than Your EN/SC (something like 1,2,3,4 or 5 but NOT (!) 0). Make sure that a) the according SCSI ID is jumpered directly on the controller board of Your hard disk and B) that this device is b.1) terminated and b.2) - depending on the hard disk manufacturer and type - is recieving termination power from BUS. While hard disks like Seagate, IBM and other offer this kind of termination most older Quantum drives don´t so with Quantums You are damned to hope this kind of termination is working.

Regarding Your PowerBook - which has an internally terminated SCSI ID 0 or 1 hard disk - You should NOT terminate an externally connected additional hard disk but only the EN/SC mini!

Now for hubs, switches and collisions in general...

Recieving collisions always means that there is something going wrong so again I´m asking: are You sure that You are using a 5 port HUB and not a switch? Are You sure that this HUB is a 10Mbit and NOT a 10/100Mbit? Re-Google that device in order to retrieve more information about this. Also make sure that You are NOT using a crossover Ethernet cable between Your HUB and the D-Link switch!

Now for software settings within "MacTCP"...

Depending on Your router´s network IP and subnet mask there are some differences in configuring this control panel. In all circumstances I tried to connect my EN/SC it always failed to retrieve any router information dynamically so I was forced to configure the EN/SC network connection as "manually" - while I was forced to do so others reported different experiences but I can´t help You in these. Now follow these steps:

Open "MacTCP" and click on "more options" at the bottom of the first window, a new window should appear. On top left set the configuration to "Manually". To the right of this in "IP Adress" choose the appropiate class: if Your router uses a "255.255.255.0" subnet mask the class shuold be "c" (change classes to see the other subnet mask options). To the down left of that window within "routing information" enter Your router´s IP adress (192.168.1.1 ?). Within "Domain Name Server Information" You can enter Your ISP´s information. While this worked for others it didn´t work for me so You will have to try on Your own. Now click on "OK". Back in the first window You can now manually change the IP adress to whatever IP adress You assigned to Your EN/SC in dependence on it´s MAC adress.

Now I don´t know anymore what to write. If these hints don´t help let me know, then I will set up my PowerBook completly new. Helps to reconstruct various steps I made lots of years ago.

J

 

[Leografix]

Last additional note:

IF all this is working it doesn´t necessarily mean that You can "SEE" Your connected Mac! To be more exact: when using my other Macs with Mac OS 8.5 over 9.xx up to 10.5.4 I never "see" my Plus, also standard "connect to server" connections don´t work, I can´t even ping the Plus´adress. In my experience only my Macs using Mac OS 7.1.x up to 8.1 can see the Plus within the "chooser" from the Apple menu. If these Macs are connected to the same 10Mbit hub they can even ping the Plus, but if they are connected to a switch they can´t.

This might apply for You, too so don´t get upset if things don´t work out as well as expected.

J

 

[klcarrie]

Wow, quite a lot to absorb.

1) I will ONLY work on the Powerbook 145 connectivity problems right now. My Plus is a "future" project.

2) a) The MINI EN/SC-10T SCSI address is physically set to '2', NOT '6'. There is a Dial inset where one can observe the setting. I must assume that the dial is correct as there is no evidence of damage or tampering.

2) B) Its MAC address is 00:00:94:5C:9E:62

3) Details for the Linksys EW5HUB network HUB connected to the MINI ENSC 10T can be found at:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/Products/ew5hub/

It is a dedicated 10 Base-T network HUB.

4) Information on the DGS-1005D 5-port Gigabit Desktop Switch I have purchased can be found at: http://www.dlink.ca/products/?model=DGS-1005D

5) To the best of my knowledge, I am using "standard" CAT-5 Cables to connect into RJ45 slots between Router, Switch, Hub, EN/SC. Please inform me there is a simple method to determine IF a cable is of type "cross-over".

6) on my Airport Extreme Router (192.168.1.1), in the "Internet>DHCP>DHCP RESERVATIONS" sub-panel, I have reserved the address 192.168.1.100 for the PB145.

7) Physical order of peripherals and computer are as follows:

a)Modem

b)Airport Extreme Router

c)DGS-1005D 5-port Gigabit Desktop Switch

d)Linksys EW5HUB 10 Base-T network hub

e)Asanté EN/SC-10T (For the next month, Images of the device can be viewed at www.rriere.ca/ENSC10T.html , if they're not up its because I'm using the G3 in System 9 mode... they'll be back up.)

7) The EN/SC is the last device on the SCSI Chain and I'll assume that that it is internally terminated as I can throw the switch to have the "TERMINATION" LED on the top-side of the unit to illuminate.

On MacTCP 2.0.6 the configuration is as follows:

"Manually"

Class "C"

Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0

Routing information: 192.168.1.1

Domain Name Server Info: ".", 64.59.184.13 (default); "." 64.59.184.15.

MacTCP manually entered IP on PB145 corresponds to 192.168.1.100.

ENSC MAC Address obtained by holding down option when clicking MacTCP's "Built In Ethernet" pane corresponds to: 00:00:94:5C:9E:62

8) I am using a program called "MacTCP Ping" to ping from 192.168.1.100 out to 192.168.1.1

I am pinging from 192.168.1.199 (MBPro 10.4.11) via wireless and 192.168.1.200 (G3Bronze OS X 10.3.9) connected to switch (not hub) to attempt to access 192.168.1.100. Each recognize 192.168.1.1.

9) PB145 has System 7.1 Installed. 4 mb of ram. (I can possibly upgrade to System 7.5.5 to duplicate LEOGRAPHIX's sytem.

10) For this experiment NO EXTERNAL DRIVE IS CONNECTED. I only use it to transfer program files to the PB145's internal HD (SCSI "0").

If You "Leographix" are willing to deconstruct your system to aid me in constructing mine... I say Great. I can mimick your steps... this will just take some time.

K

[?]

 

[klcarrie]

Leographix wrote "...I can´t even ping the Plus´adress..."

hmm.

Does this apply also to your PowerBook 145b?

I will soon receive an ethernet card for my performa (LC) 475. I will have it up and running (I hope) and will test to see if I can ping between it and the PB145.

"...If these Macs are connected to the same 10Mbit hub they can even ping the Plus, but if they are connected to a switch they can´t.

This might apply for You, too so don´t get upset if things don´t work out as well as expected."

Good to know. I'll keep that in mind and try it out with my G3... but don't be allarmed if the images download SLOWLY then.

Also please let me know if you require higher resolution images... I used the Isight on the MBPro to get these "dirty" images. I will borrow a better camera if needed.

K

 

[klcarrie]

Update:

Correction... there are no collisions when pinging either from the 192.168.1.100 to ...1, ...199, or ...200.

at the time I am writing this .200 (G3bronze) is connected to the 10 Base-T network.

I am begining to wonder if the error is originating the airport express router.

The Mini EN/SC 10T registers network activity when ...100 pings out. The Linksys Hub registers activity on Act/Rx and Link/Tx from on both ...100 and through the uplink. The Link/Tx flashes on .200, but Act/Rx on .200 does not register any activity.

The switch appears to register at both ends, but I can't really tell.

Anyhow... lets have at it.

K