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5300c is Sad
- Thread starter raoulduke
- Start date
It actually gets worse. I replaced the HD and hooked it up to a SCSI enclosure that has electrical outlets on the back of it (which I say to distinguish this first part where the enclosure was empty). The power manager still won't reset. It now seems to reset once, chime, then when it comes to reset a second time it shuts down entirely and the (battery) charge light goes on. There's no battery in it but given my experiments with rebuilding its battery that might be ominous. I replaced the power board with an older board with different issues but not the PRAM issue and it was exactly the same.
When I actually put an HD in the enclosure, it went to Sad Mac I think when I tried to reset the PRAM; it just wouldn't boot to the external HD, otherwise - even when I tried to force it to the SCSI ID number. For these trials I removed the RAM card and tried removing/keeping in the ATA drive - neither made a difference (except on uptime with the RAM card).
I have two specifically SD adapters: http://www.amazon.com/Digigear-PCMCIA-adapter-supports-memory/dp/B00MFVG9XO; http://www.ebay.com/itm/261556993009 . I think my laptop has an SD slot. The PRAM etc. issues may not be related to the PCMCIA issues, but there clearly is something that goes beyond just the flash memory.
It doesn't seem to be able to boot from floppy. It starts to boot normally and then on the smiling mac it spits out the floppy and goes back to the flashing disk image. I've tried this with a half dozen disk images now. And with non-system disks it doesn't do that... So is this a ROM problem?
When I actually put an HD in the enclosure, it went to Sad Mac I think when I tried to reset the PRAM; it just wouldn't boot to the external HD, otherwise - even when I tried to force it to the SCSI ID number. For these trials I removed the RAM card and tried removing/keeping in the ATA drive - neither made a difference (except on uptime with the RAM card).
I have two specifically SD adapters: http://www.amazon.com/Digigear-PCMCIA-adapter-supports-memory/dp/B00MFVG9XO; http://www.ebay.com/itm/261556993009 . I think my laptop has an SD slot. The PRAM etc. issues may not be related to the PCMCIA issues, but there clearly is something that goes beyond just the flash memory.
It doesn't seem to be able to boot from floppy. It starts to boot normally and then on the smiling mac it spits out the floppy and goes back to the flashing disk image. I've tried this with a half dozen disk images now. And with non-system disks it doesn't do that... So is this a ROM problem?
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Sorry for the delay...
The Floppy for that should be OS8. But that can be difficult to make. As for the floppy being spit out, it could be the disk is bad or the drive's head is broken, as in the past people used to take a pair of pliers to a stuck floppy and yank it out, ripping the top read/write head off its mounting. So it is not a ROM problem. Only way to be sure is to remove the floppy and remove its cover and inspect the top head. Much easier to just swap the drive with a working unit!
I think you can turn the unit on as a SCSI Drive and connect it to another Mac through the SCSI Port and inspect the drive like modern Macs can connect by FireWire Mode, but I forget how that is done. If you put the drive in a 5300, format it and install a system on it, it may not be compatible to the 3400. In the least it should be OS8 for the 3400. I still think its a partitioning and formatting problem.
You'd need a docking SCSI adaptor to mount the Powerbook in SCSI target disk mode. The docking adaptors I've had (mainly made by APS) have a switch to allow the adaptor to be used to connect external SCSI drives to the Powerbook, or switch to allow the Powerbook to mounted as a SCSI disk.
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The floppy drive has been very well tested and works perfectly. The disk also works perfectly.
I was going to say the SCSI enclosure didn't work but it appears to be booting to OS 9 from an external CD drive. I guess the HD I had been using died.
It sounds like I left an HD in there (not the one that apparently died). OS 9 cannot recognize it. I will have to work on it next weekend.
I was going to say the SCSI enclosure didn't work but it appears to be booting to OS 9 from an external CD drive. I guess the HD I had been using died.
It sounds like I left an HD in there (not the one that apparently died). OS 9 cannot recognize it. I will have to work on it next weekend.
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Lets go back to the very beginning...
You got... A CF in a PCMCIA adapter that crashed a 3400 and gives problems on a 5300? It gave a Sad Mac on the 3400 and then bars on boot when rebooted?
Sounds like a dying 3400. Check the ram cards and CPU Card on the 3400 and make sure things are tight with them. Same on the 5300 (RAM Cards as there is no CPU card on the 5300). Lets try to get these two machines to boot with the hard drive and make sure there are no problems when booting. If you did a PCMCIA to Cardbus mod to either machine, undo it and get rid of it. This is only for PCMCIA ONLY!
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Put them to the side, you got another laptop to work with that has PCMCIA Slots? I think a Windows laptop was mentioned. Lets use it for a second. Turn it on and let it boot to Windows/Linux/What ever you have. Once you have the desktop and the had drive stops, put in the PCMCIA with the CF in it. It may complain about needing drivers, which a standard set of drivers is on the Windows Install CD. Once the drivers are installed, turn on FDisk, PartitionMagic, GPart (there's a version for windows), etc. to look at and create partitions on the CF Card.
Select the drive number (usually between 2 to 5 most of the time it is 2), as a letter is not defined. When the drive is selected, examine the Partition Information on the drive. Note them down. Then Delete THEM ALL! Quite the program and Reboot the system. This should delete the partition information on the drive.
Once rebooted, turn on the partitioning software you were using. Like before select the drive number of the CF Card. Partition it in 2GB Slices! If you have a 16GB CF Card, make 8 - 2GB partition slices! Assign each slice a letter ID! Make the first slice as "Active." In the case of FDisk - this might not be possible but its OK. Quit the program and reboot the system.
Once rebooted again, go to "My Computer" icon. Each slice will come up but they are not formatted. Format each slice. Shut down and reboot. At this point the CF should be usable.
NOTE: Under Windows, you need to reboot each time you make changes to the partition table of any drive. Under Linux you do not need to reboot.
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NOW (!!!) you got a CF Card partitioned and formatted for DOS/Windows. Get a Mac, lets use the 5300. You will need on it:
A minimum of System 7.5.5
PC Exchange and its drivers
HD SetUp
PC Exchange will allow the Mac to read PC DOS/Windows formatted disks.
Turn on the Mac 5300. Once on Desktop, put in the CF Card in the PCMCIA slot. The Mac will complain about being a PC Formatted device, just answer Yes or OK to the questions it asks. Then a drive icon will pop up for each slice you created.
Now you should be able to format each slice into Mac OS. If you cant, you will need to open HD SetUp and repartition the slices into Mac OS slices, each one 2GB each. And then you can format each slice. (Note: When I did this I did not had to reboot the Mac 5300, but I was using System 7.6.1)
With each slice converted to a Mac Slice, you should be able to use it on the 3400 and the 5300. And out of these slices, you should be able to put a system on one or more of the slices and boot it from the PCMCIA - but after you have the system folder blessed!
- - - - - - -
Notes:
- This is for HSF Mac OS Format. If you want HSF+, make sure you have OS 8.1 not OS8. HSF+ Will not work under System 7 or OS8, it will only work for OS8.1 (Some people have gotten HSF+ to work on OS8, but I find it too flakey on OS8 to be reliable.)
- Work with 2GB Slices and make sure that they work under HSF+ first before changing them into 4GB Slices.
- Before you put a system on the CF drive, make sure you can copy files and access those files fro the CF Drive. If you can - delete the files and then put in the System.
You got... A CF in a PCMCIA adapter that crashed a 3400 and gives problems on a 5300? It gave a Sad Mac on the 3400 and then bars on boot when rebooted?
Sounds like a dying 3400. Check the ram cards and CPU Card on the 3400 and make sure things are tight with them. Same on the 5300 (RAM Cards as there is no CPU card on the 5300). Lets try to get these two machines to boot with the hard drive and make sure there are no problems when booting. If you did a PCMCIA to Cardbus mod to either machine, undo it and get rid of it. This is only for PCMCIA ONLY!
- - - - - - -
Put them to the side, you got another laptop to work with that has PCMCIA Slots? I think a Windows laptop was mentioned. Lets use it for a second. Turn it on and let it boot to Windows/Linux/What ever you have. Once you have the desktop and the had drive stops, put in the PCMCIA with the CF in it. It may complain about needing drivers, which a standard set of drivers is on the Windows Install CD. Once the drivers are installed, turn on FDisk, PartitionMagic, GPart (there's a version for windows), etc. to look at and create partitions on the CF Card.
Select the drive number (usually between 2 to 5 most of the time it is 2), as a letter is not defined. When the drive is selected, examine the Partition Information on the drive. Note them down. Then Delete THEM ALL! Quite the program and Reboot the system. This should delete the partition information on the drive.
Once rebooted, turn on the partitioning software you were using. Like before select the drive number of the CF Card. Partition it in 2GB Slices! If you have a 16GB CF Card, make 8 - 2GB partition slices! Assign each slice a letter ID! Make the first slice as "Active." In the case of FDisk - this might not be possible but its OK. Quit the program and reboot the system.
Once rebooted again, go to "My Computer" icon. Each slice will come up but they are not formatted. Format each slice. Shut down and reboot. At this point the CF should be usable.
NOTE: Under Windows, you need to reboot each time you make changes to the partition table of any drive. Under Linux you do not need to reboot.
- - - - - - - -
NOW (!!!) you got a CF Card partitioned and formatted for DOS/Windows. Get a Mac, lets use the 5300. You will need on it:
A minimum of System 7.5.5
PC Exchange and its drivers
HD SetUp
PC Exchange will allow the Mac to read PC DOS/Windows formatted disks.
Turn on the Mac 5300. Once on Desktop, put in the CF Card in the PCMCIA slot. The Mac will complain about being a PC Formatted device, just answer Yes or OK to the questions it asks. Then a drive icon will pop up for each slice you created.
Now you should be able to format each slice into Mac OS. If you cant, you will need to open HD SetUp and repartition the slices into Mac OS slices, each one 2GB each. And then you can format each slice. (Note: When I did this I did not had to reboot the Mac 5300, but I was using System 7.6.1)
With each slice converted to a Mac Slice, you should be able to use it on the 3400 and the 5300. And out of these slices, you should be able to put a system on one or more of the slices and boot it from the PCMCIA - but after you have the system folder blessed!
- - - - - - -
Notes:
- This is for HSF Mac OS Format. If you want HSF+, make sure you have OS 8.1 not OS8. HSF+ Will not work under System 7 or OS8, it will only work for OS8.1 (Some people have gotten HSF+ to work on OS8, but I find it too flakey on OS8 to be reliable.)
- Work with 2GB Slices and make sure that they work under HSF+ first before changing them into 4GB Slices.
- Before you put a system on the CF drive, make sure you can copy files and access those files fro the CF Drive. If you can - delete the files and then put in the System.
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The adapters giving problems are all directly PCMCIA/Cardbus to SD. I successfully set up my 16gb card - the one that had the weird OS 8.5 Disk Tools System Folder on it - with three partitions - Documents, Virtual Memory, and Permanent Storage (because I couldn't think of what to do with all that space). In any event, there seems to be no problem with the PCMCIA > CF and CF > SD adapters (in concert).
However, the Cardbus > CF adapter I bought says it only runs on Windows and OS 10.2.x and after. It registers as "Duo ATA" on the Kanga but I can't open it and it clearly doesn't just show up as ATA (like the PCMCIA > CF > SD does). And it causes Drive Setup to freeze. [On OS 9, Drive Setup shouldn't have problems with non-Apple drives (or accessible PC Cards) - at least in my experience.] But now I can't find evidence there are any Cardbus (or 32-bit) CF or SD adapters that actually run on pre-OS X Mac OS.
I will turn around and check the successful card setup out on the 5300. I'm also probably going to get a cheap 5300cs as a parts-source for the 5300c just in case. In any event, this seems to be an issue with PC Card (generally) to SD directly - manifested most unusually in the 5300c.
I may not have mentioned this crucial detail - the HD problems are all data-issues. Every HD powers up and spins inside the 5300c, but nothing has yet been recognized [since the first Sad Mac]. This includes several HDs I know are both good and bootable. I just got a new HD cable, so I will use the new cable and a few drives when I get the chance.
However, the Cardbus > CF adapter I bought says it only runs on Windows and OS 10.2.x and after. It registers as "Duo ATA" on the Kanga but I can't open it and it clearly doesn't just show up as ATA (like the PCMCIA > CF > SD does). And it causes Drive Setup to freeze. [On OS 9, Drive Setup shouldn't have problems with non-Apple drives (or accessible PC Cards) - at least in my experience.] But now I can't find evidence there are any Cardbus (or 32-bit) CF or SD adapters that actually run on pre-OS X Mac OS.
I will turn around and check the successful card setup out on the 5300. I'm also probably going to get a cheap 5300cs as a parts-source for the 5300c just in case. In any event, this seems to be an issue with PC Card (generally) to SD directly - manifested most unusually in the 5300c.
I may not have mentioned this crucial detail - the HD problems are all data-issues. Every HD powers up and spins inside the 5300c, but nothing has yet been recognized [since the first Sad Mac]. This includes several HDs I know are both good and bootable. I just got a new HD cable, so I will use the new cable and a few drives when I get the chance.
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I was going to say, Elfen, if you can clue me in to any factors you think might affect the cards, I can test them systematically and make like a grid along with a correlation of the effects.
I replaced the 5300 HD cable to no effect. The (Apple 10gb Kanga) HD spins. I boot to OS 9 with an external CD drive. It doesn't recognize anything on the ATA bus... so is this a bus issue?
Actually follow-up; there's a jumper I think on the farthest pin-set from the main 44pins. I think that's probably a 'Master' setting. I think it was there by default, but it was there when I just tested (and I'd previously tested with and without but with the old cable). I can't believe it being jumpered to Master would prevent it from working, but what is the default setting for a 5300's HD?
I replaced the 5300 HD cable to no effect. The (Apple 10gb Kanga) HD spins. I boot to OS 9 with an external CD drive. It doesn't recognize anything on the ATA bus... so is this a bus issue?
Actually follow-up; there's a jumper I think on the farthest pin-set from the main 44pins. I think that's probably a 'Master' setting. I think it was there by default, but it was there when I just tested (and I'd previously tested with and without but with the old cable). I can't believe it being jumpered to Master would prevent it from working, but what is the default setting for a 5300's HD?
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(Elfen you were right, the floppy that I normally put disk tools on had died. The SCSI CD drive will no longer boot either the c or cs, but I think it may be a termination issue. This has come up because the 5300c gets really weird screen ripples with the OS 9 drive I had in it, so I'm downgrading to its original 7.5.2, which has been really hard since I wasn't able to use disk tools lol. Eventually I broke out the G4, attached the drive via USB and just deleted the System folder. The pre-8 [7.6?] installers are garbage by comparison.)
[(Oh, and just so nobody jumps on the screen ripple issue; it starts just before the extensions start to load on OS 9. It does not occur before that; it does not persist after restarting; and it has no correlation to the amount of time the machine has been powered on - only to the time from boot, when booting into OS 9. I didn't want to use 9 to begin with, it just happened to be on the drive and the cs (happily) had a 56mb card that I put in the c.)]
[(Oh, and just so nobody jumps on the screen ripple issue; it starts just before the extensions start to load on OS 9. It does not occur before that; it does not persist after restarting; and it has no correlation to the amount of time the machine has been powered on - only to the time from boot, when booting into OS 9. I didn't want to use 9 to begin with, it just happened to be on the drive and the cs (happily) had a 56mb card that I put in the c.)]
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