Does this
So cool...
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30Video: New video board for SE/30 / IIsi / more?
- Thread starter zigzagjoe
- Start date
This looks rad! I'm in for one, though I doubt you need further confirmation that an internal-grayscale-capable SE/30 video cards are in high demand.
Out of curiosity (and perhaps slightly off-topic), how many cards can you fit in a SE/30, anyway? I've already got Bolle's combo passthrough/ethernet card and Carrera clone; in the likely event that I pick up one of these, is it possible to stack a fourth card off those three? I'm not sure what that card would be, but I'm already envisioning the free slot calling out to me.
Out of curiosity (and perhaps slightly off-topic), how many cards can you fit in a SE/30, anyway? I've already got Bolle's combo passthrough/ethernet card and Carrera clone; in the likely event that I pick up one of these, is it possible to stack a fourth card off those three? I'm not sure what that card would be, but I'm already envisioning the free slot calling out to me.
I think it's going to depend a lot of the particular combo of cards. With the short maccon-esq formfactor I tend to use both here and on my booster clones, you could for sure get a booster, maccon, and 30video card stacked no problem. Beyond that, might need to be either a short card or something with an angled connector (I think it may run into the CRT).
With an adapter like bolle's... I'm not quite sure, I don't have one or anything similar to measure with. Given that people manage to get video boards on top of it, I would think you could at least get two on top as they are *short*.
I mainly wanted the passthrough slot so *anyone* can use this, even if you already have a card without a passthrough slot. Also, in the IIsi.
Excellent idea to allow installing a straight connector for the IIsi! The only disadvantage is the lack of FPU socket which breaks A/UX compatibility on the IIsi. Would it be hard to add one?
I still can‘t emphasise enough what a fantastic project this is! I‘d be definitely in for at least one.
I still can‘t emphasise enough what a fantastic project this is! I‘d be definitely in for at least one.
Probably not without adding more layers, and real-estate might start to get cramped too. I am using a 6 layer PCB already to ensure signal integrity and enable routing the passthrough slot. For that situation, I'd think perhaps one of the combo cache & FPU adapters might work best?
On the topic of A/UX, I have it also working in grayscale mode on the SE/30. It turns out the real reason the Micron code dies badly on A/UX is that it's hacking on slot manager low memory globals. A/UX certainly wouldn't be down with that, and there doesn't seem to be a need to do so either... I'll have to update the A/UX bandaid ROM I made with the actual fix.
Interesting, thanks for taking the time! Bolle's card is around 175mm by my measurement, which seems promising for fit. Angle is a potential complication--bolle's card top side has about the same angle as the 30Video--but I doubt it'll be a huge issue as bolle's grayscale card is pretty tall itself.
If you did have two 30Videos in one machine, would you be able to use both 512*342 grayscale on the internal monitor and an external monitor simultaneously? That's about the only use for a third PDS card I can think of.
Yep, you can use up to two 30Video cards in the same machine, and yes could do both a grayscale and VGA at the same time. If co-existing with other cards, the slot IDs I support are 9 and A (so any other card would need to be id B).
Total height of my card is 75mm, or 70mm when stacked with another (two cards are 145 total). So, I think it would fit on top of bolle's adapter without trouble.
Great project and congrats on all that you’ve achieved!
I’d be worried about power issues stacking two video cards on top of an ethernet combo card and 040 accelerator. I’ve found that my PSUs (recapped, of course) are not even really up to the task of just running the combo card and 040. The 5V rail drops too low and I get stability problems.
I’d be worried about power issues stacking two video cards on top of an ethernet combo card and 040 accelerator. I’ve found that my PSUs (recapped, of course) are not even really up to the task of just running the combo card and 040. The 5V rail drops too low and I get stability problems.
The harness itself can also be the culprit of this - a new harness with thicker gauge wire is recommended if going with all the upgrades I think.
This actually makes sense. With upgrades I measure the voltage as being OK on the analog board, but too low on the logic board.
Thank you!
These cards sip power: running internal grayscale, they add about 2 watts to the at-the-wall power consumption. By comparison, an original micron adds about 6w. Good from a power consumption standpoint, less good is that I've had to take drastic measures on the revised board to condition the power, so that artifacts don't show up in the video and that my frequency generator is happy. Se/30 5v is truly a nasty, nasty place with much noise as well as voltage swing. However, my test setup is very much a worst case scenario, so if it's fine there, I do not expect to see real world issues.
So - root cause - it's complicated. Yes, SE/30 have miserable voltage drop, but it's not so much the power supply harness's fault so much as it is the 22 gauge 5v wire from the LB to AB (both original micron and SE/30 are like this). See here for some details. To help mitigate that, any harnesses I build will be using 18ga for the +5v and +12v lines. I think it'll be fine in the end.
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To be clear - it's the LB to AB wire that's the problem, not the PSU to AB wire. You can get preterminated wires with mini-fit jr crimps on the ends: I had some left over from a previous PSU conversion, but you can get them and unless you like crimping, this will save you quite a lot of money and time (crimping tools ain't that cheap). Then get the right mini-fit jr "compatible" shell off ebay, push the wires in and you're done.
Sounds good - do you happen to know where? eBay/AliExpress?
Molex P/N : 2153402223 , 225mm 16G Red cable w/ gold mini fit jr socket terminators.
You should be able to find it at an parts house.
Thank you.
Yes, I'd probably go to a reputable parts dealer if wire gauge/resistance really mattered here. I have to admit, though, I've mostly been working through my stock of pre-terminated wires cannibalised from other cables, so I'd suggest following @zigzagjoe's suggestion.
It's not embarrassing if they're still doing what you need them to do. It's generally best not to mess with something working unless you've got imminent reason to believe it's going to stop working...
This is a super cool thread. I have several SE/30 with multiple cards, Mac/Con, Pivot IIsi, Micron XCeed, as well as Bolle Ethernet Riser. On one machine it can drive three displays (two external and one internal) but there are artifacts on the internal display. I’m guessing it’s because of all the power draw.
