slomacuser
Well-known member
What do you think?
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whic one is more rare?
- Thread starter slomacuser
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MultiFinder
Well-known member
I'd say "Macintosh", because wasn't the "Macintosh 128k" manufactured for a year or two after the introduction of the 512k?
JDW
Well-known member
003! Like equill I thought you had fallen off the face of the planet!
In terms of "rare" I must first say that word is used far too often on EBAY. I've come to loath the term because of EBAY, actually. Dishonest classic Mac sellers love to pitch anything as rare, even if it is not. And folks, quite honestly, something is not truly "rare" when you find one of the same items pop up on EBAY once a week!
But there are certain things that are rare. I would say that if you find a Macintosh (no model on back) or Macintosh 128k (red model text on back) that is totally unscratched, unyellowed, with the original box and complete set of original disks and other items (like the programmer's switch), then you have indeed found a "rare" package. But in most cases, complete packages on EBAY have actually been pieced together by the seller. And even those items are yellowed to some extent.
And before anyone says "all Macs are now yellowed," I must say that my Macintosh (no red text on back) is not yellowed at all "to my eyes." And the best way to know yellowing is to flip the machine over and look at its base (where light and airborne contaminants won't yellow that area much at all). All sides of my particular machine look quite nearly the same to my eyes. But such is not to surprising since the person who sold it to me was the authorized liquidator of the estate of a man who had died, and I was told the machine was hardly used and then put inside a soft-sided Mac bag for storage all these years. Even the two protruding circular feet at the bottom of the mouse were unscathed! And so, I could consider the Mac I own as being somewhat "rare."
One final note. I suppose it could be argued that the red text "Macintosh 128k" machines are less rare that the original "Macintosh" machines merely because they came "later," I also would say that "the total number of machines manufactured" would also have some bearing on the final definition of rare. For if the "Macintosh 128k" machines were manufactured in a larger quantity overall than the original "Macintosh" machines, then by the sheer numbers alone you could see the rarity of the original "Macintosh" machines. But I lack accurate numbers to know if that is a valid argument though.
In terms of "rare" I must first say that word is used far too often on EBAY. I've come to loath the term because of EBAY, actually. Dishonest classic Mac sellers love to pitch anything as rare, even if it is not. And folks, quite honestly, something is not truly "rare" when you find one of the same items pop up on EBAY once a week!
But there are certain things that are rare. I would say that if you find a Macintosh (no model on back) or Macintosh 128k (red model text on back) that is totally unscratched, unyellowed, with the original box and complete set of original disks and other items (like the programmer's switch), then you have indeed found a "rare" package. But in most cases, complete packages on EBAY have actually been pieced together by the seller. And even those items are yellowed to some extent.
And before anyone says "all Macs are now yellowed," I must say that my Macintosh (no red text on back) is not yellowed at all "to my eyes." And the best way to know yellowing is to flip the machine over and look at its base (where light and airborne contaminants won't yellow that area much at all). All sides of my particular machine look quite nearly the same to my eyes. But such is not to surprising since the person who sold it to me was the authorized liquidator of the estate of a man who had died, and I was told the machine was hardly used and then put inside a soft-sided Mac bag for storage all these years. Even the two protruding circular feet at the bottom of the mouse were unscathed! And so, I could consider the Mac I own as being somewhat "rare."
One final note. I suppose it could be argued that the red text "Macintosh 128k" machines are less rare that the original "Macintosh" machines merely because they came "later," I also would say that "the total number of machines manufactured" would also have some bearing on the final definition of rare. For if the "Macintosh 128k" machines were manufactured in a larger quantity overall than the original "Macintosh" machines, then by the sheer numbers alone you could see the rarity of the original "Macintosh" machines. But I lack accurate numbers to know if that is a valid argument though.
They weren't, the 128k was manufactured for a far shorter time than the original Macintosh and I've seen many original Macs on ebay, in all that time I've only seen a single one that said "128k" on it.
I have been ... busy... and I cycle through different (and unfortunately expensive) hobbies at a pretty quick pace! [
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equill
Well-known member
By 'original trim' I meant not upgraded to 512K, 512Ke or Plus capability, rather than in pristine condition. Harbingers of the future though they were, the Macintoshes and 128Ks were scarcely powerhouses, and an unguessable number must have been given a ration of growth hormones to make them more useful.
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Mac128
Well-known member
I was actually gonna question this "poll". I guess determining the group opinion has merit, but certainly as JDW points out it is a question easily settled with some documentation from Apple, some of which may be found at the Stanford Library. Though, as JDW also points out, the definition of rare cannot be settled by one aspect alone, nor have the same meaning from one-person to the next. Though I think we all agree, most eBay retailers mis-use the word on average.
I would tend to agree with this statement in principle based on sheer numbers actually manufactured. Certainly I have seen a paucity of 128K branded Macintoshes on eBay as well. Technically speaking, however, "manufactured for a far shorter time" is inaccurate as I understand it. The 512K was introduced in September 1984 and presumably the 128K donned the additional badging at the same time. The 128K was discontinued in September 1985, 1 year later. Since the original Macintosh was only sold from January 1984 to (presumably) September 1984, it was the original that sold for a far shorter time than the re-badged 128K. However, I doubt the re-badged 128K sold 70,000 units in the entire year it was in production, much less the first 3 months.
Charlieman
Well-known member
And which one is more likely to be upgraded?
First adopters were fairly wealthy enthusiasts; perhaps they were more willing upgraders? It is twenty years since I last used a Mac with 128KB RAM. All of the original Macs and Mac 128Ks that I ever used were later upgraded in some way (third party accelerator or Plus upgrade).
Or on reflection, perhaps early adopters became frustrated by continuous floppy disk swapping and just parked the Mac in the loft? At least Mac 128K owners could see the Mac 512K and conclude that "Macintosh" really could work.
Who knows? Has anyone considered creating a M0001 register so that we can get a count? (Don't rush to deliver it. There are lots of privacy issues to consider.)
First adopters were fairly wealthy enthusiasts; perhaps they were more willing upgraders? It is twenty years since I last used a Mac with 128KB RAM. All of the original Macs and Mac 128Ks that I ever used were later upgraded in some way (third party accelerator or Plus upgrade).
Or on reflection, perhaps early adopters became frustrated by continuous floppy disk swapping and just parked the Mac in the loft? At least Mac 128K owners could see the Mac 512K and conclude that "Macintosh" really could work.
Who knows? Has anyone considered creating a M0001 register so that we can get a count? (Don't rush to deliver it. There are lots of privacy issues to consider.)
Mac128
Well-known member
Charlieman, now we're talking internal modifications. I think we would all agree finding an unmodified 128K (with either badging) today is more rare than a modified one. Most of the wealthy early adopters I knew sold them in favor of some other model. That's how I got mine: when my buddy upgraded to a Plus. But by the time I could afford to upgrade it I was able to buy a more powerful Mac. Thank God for the Apple student discount!
The M0001 registry is a good idea. Privacy issues aside, it could be as simple as recording the serial number as "currently owned" and its present condition without even so much as an e-mail address, using something like Google Spreadsheets (with regular backups of course). I'll look into it.
DONE, here it is: http://www.Mac128.com/m0001
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2234
As for the continued 128K-bashing ;-) I doubt anyone would become so frustrated they would shove a $2500 purchase into storage. If nothing else it would make a good clock. Besides if they had that much money, they would have owned a $500 external floppy disk drive too and been as happy with their 128K as I was.
The M0001 registry is a good idea. Privacy issues aside, it could be as simple as recording the serial number as "currently owned" and its present condition without even so much as an e-mail address, using something like Google Spreadsheets (with regular backups of course). I'll look into it.
DONE, here it is: http://www.Mac128.com/m0001
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2234
As for the continued 128K-bashing ;-) I doubt anyone would become so frustrated they would shove a $2500 purchase into storage. If nothing else it would make a good clock. Besides if they had that much money, they would have owned a $500 external floppy disk drive too and been as happy with their 128K as I was.
