The latest mac build. A Mac Plus/Core 2/Color.

[nextse7en]

Well hell....

Everyone was right, I received the monitor yesterday, and it can't fit. I suppose I'll have to go with the 8.4 Camos LCD screen. Perhaps I'll cut the front glass off of the plus' original monitor to make for a more accurate exterior. I don't really know that it is worth the trouble though.

-Bummed.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

I don't think it would be too bad if you had a bump-out on the back. I think a curved CRT that you can see from the front and an extra box on the back look better than an LCD and and intact back. The front is much more important than the back in my opinion.

It's possible the video board on the back of the CRT isn't very large too, so it may be a small box. I want to see a color CRT in a Mac Plus!! You may be able to cut exactly around the big Mac Plus label on the back and bump out that whole area.

 

[Mac128]

I don't think it would be too bad if you had a bump-out on the back. I think a curved CRT that you can see from the front and an extra box on the back look better than an LCD and and intact back. The front is much more important than the back in my opinion.

Sorry to hear it. I was afraid of that since even a small 4" color CRT has a neck about as long as a 10" CRT for some technical reason.

Normally, I would be against mutilating a Plus in such a way, but even Apple agrees with Dennis Nedry. One of the little things that drives me crazy about the HD20 case is that it has a little bump out the back for a fan which totally ruins the profile of the unit from the side and back, but the front of the design looks great. Also, the Plus is available in ample supply, unlike the 128K & 512K. I'd prefer to see this done to a Platinum model for this reason.

I disagree about the LCD. There have ben some successful implementations of them. If one could use a smaller resolution within a frame of the native resolution, a larger LCD should fit flat against the bezel with the gaps filled in by some black masking and look pretty nice. I do think the Plus looks better aesthetically with the curved screen so using the front of a CRT in theory should look great. According to one report, using a diamond Dremel saw made the process a snap, especially since it doesn't have to look too pretty. So it is definitely worth the consideration. Here is a previous discussion with some links.

My goal would be to leave the unit as intact as possible – one of the reasons I love the 24th Anniversary model complete with its original, yet re-mapped functional ports. Cutting a hole in the back ruins that. Using an LCD alters the look, but if behind curved glass, then it should look OEM. He still has to work out how to connect the original keyboard and mouse as well.

 

[superpantoufle]

nextse7en, this is a great project! I especially like the clean look of your custom-made innards. I thought I had to jump in that thread just to show off once more with my own Macintosh SE/X (which I recently re-branded from its original "Macminitosh"): flickr gallery.

I went the easy way with a complete Core Duo Mac mini, which I didn't bother to open, since it fits right in. But yours looks much cleaner inside! As for the screen, I chose the 8.4'' LCD way, with a soft black mask around the edges which practically fills the gaps. Now I heard some people around here cutting the original CRT's front, and I may well give that a try sooner or later.

Anyway, good luck and have a lot of fun in your project!

 

[Bunsen]

Nice work there superpantoufle. I should let you know though, there is already a Mac SE/X out there on the webtertubes somewhere. Besides, I like the name Macminitosh!

 

[Mac128]

I should let you know though, there is already a Mac SE/X out there on the webtertubes somewhere.

Yes, here: http://apptree.net/macsex.htm

 

[superpantoufle]

Nice work there superpantoufle. I should let you know though, there is already a Mac SE/X out there on the webtertubes somewhere. Besides, I like the name Macminitosh!

Yes, here: http://apptree.net/macsex.htm

And there's also already a Mac Minitosh out there, sadly… I like both names. At first I named my project after the destruc.tv one (too bad he painted it black, otherwise it's pretty cool!), which is the one which got me started. Then, after crawling the web for similar projects to get some inspiration, I sure discovered the Apptree.net project. If I recall well, I even wrote a couple of mails to that guy for advice. His pictures helped me a lot to in figuring things out, even though I ended making different choices. But I dislike what he did with the display. It doesn't feel right. And he named it the SE/X even though his is obviously a Classic case (actually a Classic II, he says).

So mine is the only known "real" SE/X!!!

 

[Mac128]

But I dislike what he did with the display. It doesn't feel right. And he named it the SE/X even though his is obviously a Classic case (actually a Classic II, he says)...So mine is the only known "real" SE/X!!!

I agree about the display on the SE/X, it's the flatness juxtaposed with the radius arc (the same thing happened with the LC580). And it is of course a Classic form factor – then again yours is a Plus too (like the distruc.tv one, which I actually don't care for in black), so really none of you is entitled to the "SE/X" name. If anyone does, it's this guy's Mac mini mod (archive copy). Of course his is uncharacteristically sloppy for a Japanese mod.

Of course SEx is not taken, but it still needs to be an SE and technically a 68030. Despite the clever stories related about Apple choosing the SE/30 name, technically it would have been SEcx, to correspond to the IIcx (compact '030) released at the same time, which is simply kind of messy. Also, "SE" stood for the English words "System Expansion". The "II" was a Roman numeral. In general, they mixed letters an numbers, so the SEx would have been an aberration in relation to their current system. Also Apple had a significant international presence by this time and had already begun re-branding certain models with numbers where the English words would have no meaning: the "Macintosh 512K enhanced" became the "512K/800" abroad. Later the SE would would follow suit: "Macintosh SE 1/20" instead of "FDHD" which would have no meaning in a language other than English, whereas the original SE's had descriptions on the label like "1 Mbyte RAM, Two 800K Drives". So I seriously doubt Apple ever considered "SEx" as anything other than a joke.

 

[superpantoufle]

then again yours is a Plus too (like the distruc.tv one, which I actually don't care for in black), so really none of you is entitled to the "SE/X" name. If anyone does, it's this guy's Mac mini mod.

Hey, stop kidding! nextse7en's (thread author) is a Plus, as the title of the thread says. But mine is a SE all the way through it's smallest screws, and you won't be able to prove me wrong!

And since it's a SE and not a SE/30 case, as you pointed out, and obviously running OS X, I bet it still deserves its SE/X name. I'll pay some royalties to that guy!

 

[Bunsen]

I received the monitor yesterday, and it can't fit.

Nuts :-/ You haven't mentioned price, but I'll bet that wasn't cheap. Well, at least you've got a perfect monitor for a CC mod ;D

A semi-random thought: at 9" and 1024x768, maybe a monochrome screen is actually a better idea, in terms of readability?

a bump-out on the back.

Anyone else ever have one of those old wooden cased CRT televisions with a truncated cone, like a cup, protruding from the back for the last few inches of tube? Maybe one of them would be aesthetically acceptable. I suggest making one or two different model bump-outs up out of card and sticking them to the back of the case for a few days before making any cuts. See if you can live with them

Is there any way the front bezel could be modded to give you a little extra room forwards?

http://apptree.net/macsex.htm

But I dislike what he did with the display. It doesn't feel right.

I hates, hates, hates it, and want to stab it with fire. It's too .... busy, with all those steps between the case front and the screen proper, and way too obviously a hack, considering the quality of finish on the rest of the box. It would have looked far nicer to extend the angled sides inwards to meet the screen edges (Bondo, modelling clay, bog, balsa wood) instead of having that extra step at the last approach. Heck, I prefer the Japanese hacks that mount a larger LCD flush with the case front.

 

[Mac128]

Well, at least you've got a perfect monitor for a CC mod ... Heck, I prefer the Japanese hacks that mount a larger LCD flush with the case front.

Sadly this doesn't work for a CC either which used the relatively flat Trintron CRT with only a horizontal curve. So the shadow mask would still need filler on the top and bottom of the screen.

The larger LCDs still do not sit flush as it only touches the corners, requiring filler on all four sides. But as you say, still better than that silly lip which alters too much of the design. Of all the designs that the flat LCD looks best with, it is the SE which is accommodates it most, Esslinger's Snow White design language being essentially flat, geometric and utilitarian.

Hey, stop kidding! nextse7en's (thread author) is a Plus, as the title of the thread says. But mine is a SE all the way through it's smallest screws, and you won't be able to prove me wrong!

Oops, got confused there for a minute. Yes of course yours gets to be the "SE/X". The other guy has to pay you royalties. Perhaps you should label yours simply "SE X", or "SE:X". Actually his would have turned out much better had he actually used an SE per my observation above.
Then there's this one, which Bunsen seems to thinkshould be labeled simply "SEX". Interesting that the CRT appears to have been modified to use a color Trinitron CRT. Note the bump out in the back to accommodate the extra length of the color CRT and the horizontal curve only in the face, hard to tell, but the bezel would have had to be modified over the original at Digibarn which seems to clearly show a bubble-shaped shadowmask bezel. This is similar to the extra pack they added to the Macintosh in "Pirates of Silicon Valley" to accommodate the extra video cabling.

 

[superpantoufle]

Oops, got confused there for a minute. Yes of course yours gets to be the "SE/X". The other guy has to pay you royalties. Perhaps you should label yours simply "SE X", or "SE:X".

Hey thanks, you just gave me an idea; when I have some idea I'll try and find one of those letters decal sheet to see if I could label a /X or :x on the front bezel. Could look cool!

@nextse7en: How's it going for you? Did you find a solution, or changed your mind on the type of monitor you'll be using?

 

[GnatGoSplat]

I can't believe I missed this thread the first time through!

I have been wanting to do something similar and acquired my case donor, motherboard, and 8.4" color LCD last April or May, but other than acquiring parts, I haven't made any progress.

So far what I have is a pile of parts sitting on a desk that boots OS X Leopard 10.5.6. I'm using a Jetway J9F2-KHDE Mini-ITX board and a small 150W PSU. I'm using a iMate Griffin so I can reuse the original keyboard... I could reuse the original mouse too, but I'm too addicted to scroll-wheels and right-clicks to use the original mouse. I may buy a Mighty Mouse just to keep everything Apple.

On mine, I'm leaning towards mounting the motherboard low in the same place as the original, and carefully cutting out a perfect rectangle in the rear for the I/O shield. If it looks clean enough, I'm not sure there's a lot of value in preserving the original port holes.

I've been wishy-washy on the screen. I bought an 8.4" color LCD, but I kind of like the retro look of the original B&W CRT. I have had thoughts about building a custom CRT board with grayscale video amp based on a schematic I downloaded from here, and finding a way to mod the analog board to accept VGA sync. Perhaps boosting horizontal deflection voltage is enough to accomplish this? Based on what vague information I've been able to find on the Color Classic VGA mod, all they did was boost horizontal deflection voltage. If there was much more done than that, they failed to mention it. I'm not too worried about the low resolution of VGA since I'll be using a 24" LCD as a primary and the internal screen will just be a secondary.

I'm also not sure cutting the front off a CRT to use with an LCD is the best idea. My LCD has an anti-glare coating, and so does the CRT. Wouldn't doubling-up on the anti-glare result in a blurry LCD? I have that concern, and also feel bad about cutting up a perfectly good CRT. An alternate idea I had is to get a piece of clear plexiglass (Lexan), place it over the face of the original CRT, and heat it up with a heat gun. It should (in theory) soften and form to the shape of the CRT. Then use that as a lens on top of the LCD. This would result in a shiny and not entirely authentic appearance, but should still match the aesthetics I think.

Anyway, cool project, keep us updated on how you decide to proceed. It may help me make up my own mind on my own project!

 

[Bunsen]

Heck, I prefer the Japanese hacks that mount a larger LCD flush with the case front.

Sadly this doesn't work for a CC either

Yes, I meant those that use a B&W Compact shell such as an SE

 

[Mac128]

I received the monitor yesterday, and it can't fit.

Nuts :-/

a bump-out on the back.

Anyone else ever have one of those old wooden cased CRT televisions with a truncated cone, like a cup, protruding from the back for the last few inches of tube? Maybe one of them would be aesthetically acceptable.

Here's an SE/Color CRT modified project. You will note, he had the exact same problem one faces when attempting to put a color CRT into a compact Mac case and no good solution. Obviously, the placement of the neck precludes a tasteful bump through the rear label, and depending on the CRT, a tasteful solution at all. Given that this requires a major case mod, it is not my preferred choice by any means. The LCD is the only way to go on the B&W compacts.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

I disagree. I think you could build around that. If you pushed out the entire rear of the case by 3 inches, I think it would look just fine. I think the look and feel of a REAL color CRT is worth the expanded backside.

Get creative. Reverse-engineer what they were thinking when the originally designed the case and put your own Apple Magic into it. I guarantee that real Mac designers ran into problems like that all the time and built around it somehow, and made it all look OK in the end. When it comes right down to it, this is the BACK of the Mac. It should look good but I don't think authenticity is crucial. I would have a huge horrible mess in the back before I would install a weird-looking flat LCD panel in the front that I look at all the time.

 

[macgeek417]

I agree. CRTs have a curve on the front, and i have yet to see an LCD with a curve like a CRT

Besides, LCDs hurt my eyes.

Why'd they ever stop using CRTs in theit Desktop monitors/iMacs, anyway :?:

 

[Mac128]

I disagree. I think you could build around that. If you pushed out the entire rear of the case by 3 inches, I think it would look just fine. ... When it comes right down to it, this is the BACK of the Mac. It should look good but I don't think authenticity is crucial. I would have a huge horrible mess in the back before I would install a weird-looking flat LCD panel in the front that I look at all the time.

You are basically describing what they did to the Watchmen Mac SE (as well as the Macintosh in "Pirates of Silicon Valley"). However, what you propose is the quintessential debate for any vintage mod conversion. Whether to irrevocably destroy an increasingly rare item or preserve it in such a way it can be fully restored. Most take "the high road" and preserve the case intact. This is my preferred choice, though I am a little more lenient towards Platinum Pluses, SEs and Classics which exist in far greater numbers than the 128K, 512K, SE/30s and CLassic IIs. As for the LCD, this idea of putting it behind the CRT glass is enough for me. It's not a whole lot different than the current iMac, though the glass is not curved of course.

 

[Mac128]

A semi-random thought: at 9" and 1024x768, maybe a monochrome screen is actually a better idea, in terms of readability?

Not sure grayscale would help or not, considering the depth of color throughout OS X, but with a CRT, if you chose to switch to 640x480 or 800x600, it would be as sharp as it was at 1024x768.

The LCD nextse7en suggested, the Camos, is fixed at 640x480. There are others with multi-res native resolutions of 800x600 and 1024x768. My question here is, if one were to go with the 1024x768 at that size and decided 800x600 worked better later, there would be a significant loss of clarity as the image was up res-ed. So it would be best to pick the monitor with the highest acceptable native resolution to begin with. 640x480 is going to be the closest to the original 512x342 resolution, but 800x600 should be perfectly legible and yield more screen-space. I question whether I would want to really use 1024x768 at that size in any practical way.

 

[superpantoufle]

I agree. 640x480 is unsusable with OS X. Mine's native resolution is 800x600, but it does a pretty good job at upscaling, and 1024x768 displays just fine. But having used both, I switched back to 800x600 with no regret, it's much more legible!