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Source for SCSI Hard Drives
- Thread starter TheDoctor
- Start date
It could be. Those thingy's are expensive, but there are lots of them that were bundled, so if the seller doesn't know that that thingy at the back of his IDE drive is worth more than the drive itself, there's no sense informing him. Chances are, though, it's just a cheap 50pin to 68pin adaptor.
There is at least one seller in the Mac sections of Ebay who loudly touts "50 pin SCSI" drives which are really adapted SCA (80 pin) drives. If you read his Item Description closely down near the bottom somewhere he'll mention that you can get a 68 pin drive instaed of a 50 pin drive, and, of course, what he really means, is that he'll include a SCA to 68 pin adapter instead of a SCA to 50 pin adapter.
Nowhere in the Item Description does he explicitly mention that he's really selling dirt cheap SCA drives with adapters as "50 pin SCSI drives".
I don't remember the seller's ID, but his auction motif is fairly distinctive with a lot of red, IIRC.
SCA drives with adapters can be made to work, but proper termination is a big issue of which most folks are ignorant. Having an adapter which is capable of handling termination properly is an issue too. And the termination must be handled differently depending on whether the drive is at the end or in the middle of the chain in non-obvious ways.
I wrote some pretty long explanations on this topic in the news groups (comp.sys.mac.***) back when, either under trag@io.com or some variation on walther or jwalther@tnrcc.... Although those explanations may have been for adapting 68 pin wide drives to 50 pins. The principles are the same though.
As for 4GB Seagate SCSI drives...
If the drive you find is an ST15150N, I would avoid it. I had some of those back when they were new and expensive. They are *loud*, *hot* and in my experience, unreliable, but htat could have been a function of the heat. Even with proper cooling, they're still loud. These were some of the earliest, if not the first Barracuda drive and the first 7200 RPM drives were loud.
Another one to avoid is the 2 GB ST32550N. They were kick-bum in their day, but now days they're just loud and slow. Their best real-world data transfer rate is about 6MB/s.
Newer drives than those are probably faster and quieter. I mention those two, because I have experience with them and because I saw many many of them flood the used market when they came out of servers.
The Acard line of SCSI to IDE adapters has support for devices larger than 128 or 137 GB. So, in theory, you can put that $100 500GB drive in your SE/30. What's the maxium volume size on the SE/30? How many disk icons will that give you?
SCSI to IDE adapters are nice, though. IDE drives are common, inexpensive and with modern drives, quiet, cool and low power (relatively speaking). There can be issues about which drives are supported. In my experience, I've never had an IDE drive fail to work with the adapter, but I've read reports from others who have found drives with which their adapter was finicky. Still, IDE drives can be had so cheaply, how expensive is it to try a different drive?
I haven't posted to the Trading Post forum yet, because I want to take some pictures and such, but I have several Acard 7220U SCSI to IDE adapters for sale for $39 + shipping. Or $44 + ship with a 3.5" to 2.5" adapter included. trag@io.com
Nowhere in the Item Description does he explicitly mention that he's really selling dirt cheap SCA drives with adapters as "50 pin SCSI drives".
I don't remember the seller's ID, but his auction motif is fairly distinctive with a lot of red, IIRC.
SCA drives with adapters can be made to work, but proper termination is a big issue of which most folks are ignorant. Having an adapter which is capable of handling termination properly is an issue too. And the termination must be handled differently depending on whether the drive is at the end or in the middle of the chain in non-obvious ways.
I wrote some pretty long explanations on this topic in the news groups (comp.sys.mac.***) back when, either under trag@io.com or some variation on walther or jwalther@tnrcc.... Although those explanations may have been for adapting 68 pin wide drives to 50 pins. The principles are the same though.
As for 4GB Seagate SCSI drives...
If the drive you find is an ST15150N, I would avoid it. I had some of those back when they were new and expensive. They are *loud*, *hot* and in my experience, unreliable, but htat could have been a function of the heat. Even with proper cooling, they're still loud. These were some of the earliest, if not the first Barracuda drive and the first 7200 RPM drives were loud.
Another one to avoid is the 2 GB ST32550N. They were kick-bum in their day, but now days they're just loud and slow. Their best real-world data transfer rate is about 6MB/s.
Newer drives than those are probably faster and quieter. I mention those two, because I have experience with them and because I saw many many of them flood the used market when they came out of servers.
The Acard line of SCSI to IDE adapters has support for devices larger than 128 or 137 GB. So, in theory, you can put that $100 500GB drive in your SE/30. What's the maxium volume size on the SE/30? How many disk icons will that give you?
SCSI to IDE adapters are nice, though. IDE drives are common, inexpensive and with modern drives, quiet, cool and low power (relatively speaking). There can be issues about which drives are supported. In my experience, I've never had an IDE drive fail to work with the adapter, but I've read reports from others who have found drives with which their adapter was finicky. Still, IDE drives can be had so cheaply, how expensive is it to try a different drive?
I haven't posted to the Trading Post forum yet, because I want to take some pictures and such, but I have several Acard 7220U SCSI to IDE adapters for sale for $39 + shipping. Or $44 + ship with a 3.5" to 2.5" adapter included. trag@io.com
Charlieman
Well-known member
Your memory of the 1990s is great, Jeff. Yes, the ST15150N is hot and noisy. All server drives of the same era share the same attributes. Use them in an external case, rather than inside a pizza box Mac. "Unreliability" -- you may have experienced some quick failures, but we didn't. My work colleagues were shouting about lost backups rather than failing Compaq RAIDs. YMMV. Today, I find the ST15150N a useful drive, aside from the formatting problems.
Great find, Quadraman. I wish someone would throw some my way. I get some from here (IT surplus store in the Philippines)
macclassic
Well-known member
I just want a good replacement drive - as the 160MB drive my 6100/60 died, but when I asked a few sellers of 68 pin SCSI drives with adapters they turned out to be refurbished.
I would like to keep it standard, I don't really want to fit a drive with an adapter in the 6100/60's empty CD bay.
Aren't there any 50 Pin SCSI drives out there?
I would like to keep it standard, I don't really want to fit a drive with an adapter in the 6100/60's empty CD bay.
Aren't there any 50 Pin SCSI drives out there?
Mac128
Well-known member
macclassic
Well-known member
He might be a good guy but Herb's payment terms (no credit cards, no PayPal) put me off.
Franklinstein
Well-known member
I volunteer my time at a computer recycling facility when I'm in the States, and the guy who runs the place is the best. In exchange for stripping computers and fixing the occasional G3 or G4 that comes in, he lets me have whatever I want, including any old hardware made before about 2000. Wish I could go there now...
Seagate drives are the best, along with Conner, Quantum, and IBM. I have a few 9Gb full height Barracudas, and even more 4GB full height models, which are extremely loud indeed. Some of my older 68ks run the ST32550N Barracuda, and they run them well. The later generations are best, though (the ones with the silvery tops instead of the black stuff). Exceptionally quieter. My C610 form-factor machines all run ST51080N or ST52050N drives, which are 1/3 height drives designed for cramped and hot environments. Plus, they're super quiet and I have yet to have one fail on me that wasn't physically abused. A couple of bizarre IBM UltraStar drives found their way into my collection. They perform well, despite their peculiarities. All of these are 50-pin. I usually only use the 68-pin drives on their respective cards or on adapters in an external case (like my gigantic Seagate Elite 23 drives). I don't have any Macs that take SCA drives, so my AlphaServer gets those.
As for a source? Computer recycling facilities, eBay, or weirdo packrats like me. They're not terribly hard to find if you know where to look (at least you're not trying to find MFM drives). I'd suggest avoiding Fujitsu (their older drives had some reliability issues, though they're my favourite notebook drive brand nowadays). Micropolis drives are hotter, louder, and fail faster than any other drive I've ever used, so I couldn't suggest putting anything important on those. Seriously, I have some of those that got so hot they warped the plastic drive sleds. Maxtor has been crappy forever, though I've seen very few SCSI models from them. The ones I did see were terrible. WD's Enterprise series hard drives don't seem to like Macs. Not quite sure why. Unless you use the way-back machine to venture into the mid-late 80s, the above are probably the only brands you'll find. Sony made a 20/40MB hard drive once, MiniScribe made a few (before they were acquired by Maxtor), Tandem made some crappy ones (before WD picked them up), DIGITAL had a few strange models (later ones made by Quantum), and HP might have made a drive or two, as well.
Seagate drives are the best, along with Conner, Quantum, and IBM. I have a few 9Gb full height Barracudas, and even more 4GB full height models, which are extremely loud indeed. Some of my older 68ks run the ST32550N Barracuda, and they run them well. The later generations are best, though (the ones with the silvery tops instead of the black stuff). Exceptionally quieter. My C610 form-factor machines all run ST51080N or ST52050N drives, which are 1/3 height drives designed for cramped and hot environments. Plus, they're super quiet and I have yet to have one fail on me that wasn't physically abused. A couple of bizarre IBM UltraStar drives found their way into my collection. They perform well, despite their peculiarities. All of these are 50-pin. I usually only use the 68-pin drives on their respective cards or on adapters in an external case (like my gigantic Seagate Elite 23 drives). I don't have any Macs that take SCA drives, so my AlphaServer gets those.
As for a source? Computer recycling facilities, eBay, or weirdo packrats like me. They're not terribly hard to find if you know where to look (at least you're not trying to find MFM drives). I'd suggest avoiding Fujitsu (their older drives had some reliability issues, though they're my favourite notebook drive brand nowadays). Micropolis drives are hotter, louder, and fail faster than any other drive I've ever used, so I couldn't suggest putting anything important on those. Seriously, I have some of those that got so hot they warped the plastic drive sleds. Maxtor has been crappy forever, though I've seen very few SCSI models from them. The ones I did see were terrible. WD's Enterprise series hard drives don't seem to like Macs. Not quite sure why. Unless you use the way-back machine to venture into the mid-late 80s, the above are probably the only brands you'll find. Sony made a 20/40MB hard drive once, MiniScribe made a few (before they were acquired by Maxtor), Tandem made some crappy ones (before WD picked them up), DIGITAL had a few strange models (later ones made by Quantum), and HP might have made a drive or two, as well.
Unknown_K
Well-known member
I find the majority of early 90's drives that still work and have no new bad sectors are fine no matter what brand they are. All the marginal drives are long dead by now.
The issue is finding a seller who knows if the drive worked before he parted the machine out instead of just grabbing one and giving it to you.
The issue is finding a seller who knows if the drive worked before he parted the machine out instead of just grabbing one and giving it to you.
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